I think some Christians assume that many more people will go in the Rapture than will actually go. Some think countries like the United States will be significantly depopulated because of the Rapture. I do not believe that will be the case. Perhaps only two hundred million people in the whole world will go in the Rapture.
There are seven church types on earth revealed by the Lord’s seven letters to the churches in Revelation. Even so, only the letter to Philadelphia says it will be kept out of the great trial on earth (Rev 3:10). The letter says that the church of Philadelphia was to be kept from the time of the tribulation because she kept the Lord’s word (biblical doctrine), did not deny His name (Jesus is the only name under heaven whereby people must be saved), and kept the word of the Lord’s return for His Church. How many in Christendom do that today and can be identified with Philadelphia? It certainly is only a small percentage of those claiming to be Christian.
One way of looking at this is that the Rapture is a reward for those keeping the things that Jesus commended in the letter to Philadelphia. The rest in the visible churches that remain on earth today are identified with Thyatria, Sardis or Laodicea. Those identified with these other churches will have to look for instruction from the Lord in the letters addressed to them. I believe Thyatria can best be identified with Catholicism, Sardis can best be identified with mainline Protestantism and Laodicea can best be identified with the rise of postmodern churches.
There will be exactly eight billion people living on the earth sometime between 2023-2024. I mention that because my best guess timing for the pretribulation Rapture based on my educated speculation of a 2030 to 2040 second coming would be about half a decade before or after 2024. If only two hundred million go as I propose, that would mean that only 2.5 percent of the people on earth would depart in the Rapture. The departure of two hundred million people will have an impact on the world but it will not make or break any existing nation or world order.
How did I come up with this two hundred million figure?
I assume that Catholicism and most of those in mainline Protestant churches cannot be identified with Philadelphia. For the most part they do not even teach any imminent coming of the Lord. Also, most of these depart from biblical doctrine. Those that do not hold to the truths that Philadelphia believed are not promised any deliverance from the tribulation. I am also assuming that the people attending these churches believe what their denomination teaches or they would not be attending there. Therefore, very few in what is called mainline Christianity will go in the Rapture.
After removing the Catholics and the liberal Protestants there are only about six hundred million others that identify as Christians on earth. They can be identified as Evangelicals, Pentecostals or Christian identity (cults).
About a third of those six hundred million are in cults or are in churches that are on their way to joining with the Harlot of Revelation 17. They have given up premillennialism and the soon return of Christ for some kind of social gospel. Church affiliations like Saddleback, Willow Creek, New Apostolic Reformation and some Word of Faith come to mind. Many are now following the Jesuit Way of uniting Christianity through return to mysticism and the Pope. For further information on how and why these churches are joining with the Harlot of Revelation 17, check out this article and many of the other excellent articles on Roger Oakland’s website. Also check out a few of my own articles on the Harlot of Revelation 17 here and here and here.
Take out the third or more of Evangelicals and Pentecostals that are well on the path to join with the Harlot before the Rapture and it leaves less than four hundred million people in churches that might be identified with Philadelphian biblical Christianity.
It should not surprise anyone that about half of those attending even the remnant churches are phony Christians. Go to any Evangelical or Pentecostal church and ask around. Even the leaders will tell you that they have reason to believe that many of the people in their congregation are not saved. That is why these pastors keep preaching the salvation message each Sunday. Take out the pseudo Christians and their children and that leaves about two hundred million in the church identified as Philadelphia. This is the number that I surmise will depart before the great trial on earth.
That number also fits a dubious theory of mine. Let me explain. We know that Jesus will remove His bride so that she will not suffer the time of the great tribulation on earth. My premise is based on Jesus entering Satan’s abode as a thief and stealing the bride before Jesus is given the Kingdom from the Father. Because of the Lord’s theft of two hundred million people that legally still belong in Satan’s abode, God will allow the release of the four angels bound at the Euphrates (Rev 9:16) that will prepare the way for a two hundred million man demon worshiping army out of the East (eastern religions worship demons). They in turn oppose the King of Kings at His legal return to Jerusalem and bring total destruction on themselves.
I know, I know, that is not much of an argument for two hundred million people going in the Rapture. Even so, I think the Bible says that Jesus comes as a thief for good reason. When He comes for His bride He does not set foot on earth because the earthly kingdom has not been given to Him yet. He just takes his bride off the earth via angelic power. Jesus is awarded the Kingdom after Satan is cast out of heaven unto the earth. That occurs at the mid-point of the last seven years. The details are in Revelation chapters 12 and 19.
Even if I am wrong about the 200 million tie-in from Revelation 9:16, the approximately two hundred million that follow what Jesus commended in the letter to Philadelphia still appears to be a plausible number.
Catholics and the main-stream churches of Protestantism have a works salvation. They have to earn their own salvation through good works or obedience to whatever. No one can come in that way. Those never born from above through faith in Jesus are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Those without the Holy Spirit will not be going in the Rapture no matter how Christian they appear to be.
It should not be surprising that those who only have Christian identity and no Holy Spirit do not even believe in a Rapture. They will not be disappointed. There will be no Rapture for those only having Christian identity. Perhaps only a tithe of those calling themselves Christians will be taken in the Rapture. A tithe of those in Christendom is also about two hundred million. These might also be identified as first-fruits. The first-fruits end with the sealing of the 144,000 Jews. After that comes the great harvest on earth. What will the other 90 percent in Christendom say when Philadelphia is taken? Many of the leaders will say, good riddance! The Christian fundamentalists were hindering their ecumenical kingdom building agenda on the earth. So they will say thank God that those that hinder their kingdom of God effort on earth were removed.
People like Rick Warren have said that the big problem in Christianity is fundamentalism. People like Rick Warren believe the problem in Christianity is those that actually believe the fundamentals of the Christian faith. I have news. Without Christian fundamentals of the faith there only remains a religious Harlot.
The religious Harlot will unite on the concept that there is only one God and embrace any demonic religion that also claims to worship God. The only way to Father God is through Jesus the Christ His Son. The people in the world believing that Jesus is the only way to Father God are only a couple of hundred million people. It is these people that will go in the Rapture. The rest will be tried in the fires of the tribulation to see whom they will really follow.
If you feel your own Christian beliefs are now held by only a minority of those calling themselves Christian, maybe it is because you are one of those two hundred million.
I certainly think your probably about right, though I certainly would want to hope for more, But then there is Revelation 7:10-14 with a multitude that no man can number coming out of “great tribulation”. My opinion is that a good part of this multitude are persons in the catagories you discuss above that did not go in the rapure. They knew what happened and knew where to look because the rapture will be an event that makes people decide. No more time to be on the fence post. I may be wrong about that and people are far better off serving Christ prior to the Rapture and not being on the wrong side.
Hi Phil,
The tribulation is the great Harvest. Maybe half the world will come to salvation during the tribulation period. However, it will cost most believers their lives.
The gospel will be preached to the whole world by the two witnesses and the 144,000 Israelite’s. Finally, everyone will hear the gospel because it will be declared by the angels just before the wrath of God is poured out. Only those that chose to believe the lie and take the mark of the Beast cannot be saved.
I agree Don. Most believe they are saved by their own works instead of accepting Christ as a free gift without works, so no one can boast. Many believe they can be lost after they have been saved but in reality are trusting in themselves to save themselves. They are their own savior. Many preach a plan of salvation far from the one that Paul preached, and will be accursed.
Many try to climb up some other way like Jesus said they would. Many are trusting in their holiness to be accepted by 6:Christ. Jesus only accepts his righteousness, not ours. Many have twisted scripture to make it more palatable to those living in gross sin and using grace for license.
Many preach you have to change your life to be saved. The bible Hebrew word for repentance is change your mind and believe the gospel. We aught no to be living in sin, but turning from sin to God never saved anyone. Only Jesus blood sacrifice can cover our sin debt that we can no pay any other way. Many believe there sins are forgiven, but have never accepted Christ as their savior and are still living in their own righteousness.
These are just a few of my own thoughts on most in the church today. No one seems to be preaching the truth of the gospel. Ephesians 2:8-10. And John 6:37-40 And First John 5:13. The all sufficiency of Christ to save sinners is just not taught.
Just my own personal belief, I think we are very much closer to the rapture than we know.
Don,
ln between the lines of your article (and many other peoples and teachers) l see the work of the enemy. lt ls common words used by tradition and go with the flow people.
1. CHRISTIANS – too many ls christians and to little ls children of our Father ln Heaven as Jesus told us to pray. Too much people ls brainwashed by this word – christians – so by this word the enemy has his way – because too many peoples sits ln the pues of all churches called themselve christians. This is a great tragedy because children is born and raised in these assemblies thinking lts ok the way lt ls and how we grew and grow up!
2. GOD – ls a word the enemy has lnvented so, Rick Warren, Housten(hillsong), lslam, Buddhist Roman Catholics, Mormans, 7th day Atventest, Evangelicals, Penticostels, and everybody call my FATHER God – NO, NO, NO, HIS MY FATHER OF JESUS CHRIST MY OLDEST BROTHER WHO DIED FOR ME, PAID MY DEBT, SAVED ME AND NOW IM PART OF THE HEAVENLY FAMILY!
3. CHURCH – The enemy ls at work year too. l’ve been to a meeting a year ago and the preacher used the word church for a hour long – l think he confused himself – l was not becuse l know when lt means, Assembly, Building Denomination, Select (Bride)(Ecclesia)(Priests)(Kings) This brings me to –
THE BRIDAL PARTY – Who ls the Elders, Jesus ls the Bridegroom, Who ls the Bride, Who ls the Guests and who ls the Guests – Helpers
When they ask me wich church you belong to l say l belong to JESUS.
l also always say my God ls the Father of Jesus
I think you figures ls right because of my reasoning above. Shalom
That seems like such a small number to me…Jesus will take children and babies? Does this include all the children in the world?
Thanks, Don.
Ashley
Oh man this is so true. Nice article.
My brother & his wife recently got saved they totally changed their life around, like wow! Fruit of the Spirit right there.
That was a answered prayer I prayed fervently for this for some time an hour at a time at various times, that’s all I prayed for intentionally felt it in my gut. For Christmas he bought all bibles for his family, this kid was a red neck beer drinking smoking loved to fight semi driving good fella that honestly believed when u die that’s IT! Rot in the ground thank u very much.
But God got to him removed that veil now he see’s. Heck I was bargaining for salvation in the tribulation didn’t realize He meant it for NOW… i’ll take it. (Being facetious w/ the bargaining)
Think that number grew by just a little Don. 🙂
Two hundred million sounds good to me… Yet each of the two hundred million have families and neigbours and work mates and Church friends, so even the sudden disappearance of such a small percentage will be a heart stopping event for many more.
Though I can imagine the pope saying “The rapture of the Church? NO it can’t be, I am still here”.
Ashley,
I do not believe that the babies and children of unbelievers are part of the Bride of Christ. Now the children of believers are sanctified by the believer. I do not believe that babies and children that die go to hell either.
Another commenter mentioned those under the age of accountability. If life begins at conception then the number of saved must be in the billions at the time of the rapture. Maybe those too young to believe are saved but not part of the bride?? If this is the case, I think 200 million seems like a good guess.
I also think 2028 seems like a good year for something important. I mean c’mon, exactly 2000 years from the acceptable year of the Lord, AND 2520 years from 457 BC, AND it’s within the timeline we all agree on. Coincidence is not a kosher word.
Don, I love reading your articles. Are you familiar with the ministry of Les Feldick? He’s a great Bible teacher and is in agreement that very few will go in the rapture.
That’s one of those things we won’t know until we do know but what do I know? My two cents says all babies in the womb & out are leaving in the rapture. We’ll know on the other side.
Hi Jim and Bill,
If life begins at conception and they are going in the Rapture many would be ripped out the mothers womb. The Church are those born of the Holy Spirit. Babies are not born of the Spirit. That takes belief in the Savior that God sent.
2028 might seem like a good year for something but keep in mind that we do not know for sure what year it was that Jesus announced the acceptable year of the Lord.
Hi Mike,
I am aware of Les Feldick and know many like his teachings. I am not very familiar with his writings myself. I may have read a couple of his teachings along the way.
Don , do you know anything about a non denominational church in Wichita called NewSpring.?
The senior pastor is Mark Hoover , comes from a Baptist background
Mike, I’ve been watching Les’s studies for at least 7 years. I find him to be the “Salt of the Earth” and NOT the slick salesmen PROFITEERS. Sign up for his quarterly newsletter and if you need a video they are affordable. You call & they send it with a modest handwritten note. Shalom!
If babies and children under the age of accountability don’t go to he’ll or with Jesus then where to they go? This is a big can of worms. I dont have the resources on hand this minute but I was always taught and from my own studies that babies and children under the age that died were to be with the Lord and that would include the rapture.
Hi Donald,
I actually lived in Wichita Kansas for a year eighteen years ago. I am not familiar with NewSpring. It probably did not exist by that name when I was there. Wichita had a couple of mega churches that tried to come across as non denominational. One of them was the church I went to while in Wichita. It was the second biggest Church of God Anderson Indiana church in the county. It actually was a very good Church. The worship service had a full orchestra. They had good teachers for their Sunday schools and they had dozens of home groups. The pastor was an excellent teacher.
On the other side of town not to far from New Spring there was a mega church that also played down its denomination. It was of the Christian denomination. I attended a Messianic evening service held on their campus a number of times. It does not surprise me that another “non denominational” mega church would also spring up in Wichita that probably really took the Baptist name off the door.
George,
Not all people that will be saved are part of the Bride of Christ. For example, there were saved people before the New Covenant Church and there will be saved people after the Rapture. The innocent will be saved but that does not mean they receive rewards or rule on earth with Christ during the kingdom age on earth.
What happens to babies whose parents are mixed; one believer and one unbeliever? Are they considered covered by the blood or part of the bride of Christ? What happens to children who are mentally challenged, are they not covered by the blood? God would not allow those under the age of accountabilit to be left to suffer the judgements intended for an unbelieving world. Where is the scripture to back up such a claim that the children of unbelievers are not raptured with the church.
Meg,
You ask “Where is the scripture to back up such a claim that children of unbelievers are not raptured with the Church?”
You cannot prove anything from a negative. Where are the scriptures to prove that children of unbelievers will go in the Rapture?
The scripture does imply that children are sanctified by just one believing parent (1 Cor 7:14).
You say God would not allow those under the age of accountability to be left to suffer the judgements intended for an unbelieving world. Many children of unbelievers have died under the natural judgments that occur in a fallen world. God is not saving the natural bodies, even those born to the righteous have suffered the same fate.
God is saving souls. He will save the innocent but that does not mean their physical bodies will not receive the natural consequences of the fallen world. God is even allowing hundreds of millions of babies to be aborted and you say God will not allow the consequences of sin.
Part of the problem here probably is that you think the bride of Christ is all people that will be saved. Where do you get that from scripture? Why have a bride queen if there is no one else in the Kingdom? Jesus said you must be born again of the Spirit to even enter the kingdom of God. The New Testament makes it clear that salvation comes to those that trust in Jesus. It says those that do not believe remain under condemnation.
If all babies go in the Rapture, how do you explain the statement of Jesus that says woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! (Mr 13:17). The Lord was speaking about the time of the great tribulation.
Hi Don,
You give food for thought I just read 1 Cor 7:14 at the end where it reads.. “..else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.” that does give some credence to what u say then wrap it with “17 But woe to them that are with child,…”
Makes me ponder. I remember watching one of the rapture films and there were babies w/ their stressed out mothers amidst the chaos & at the time I believed the writers messed up on that part but maybe their research department did a careful study?
Interesting though.
While it is true the Bible does not explicitly say what will happen to any children under the age of accountability, or those who are mentally challenged, we know that when king David’s infant son died, David said “I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.” 2 Samuel 12:22.
I understand completely there has been violence against children over the ages including the murder of babies through abortion made by a parent’s choice but the tribulation is for those who have made a decision not to follow Christ and the young or mentally ćhallenged cannot make that decision, so how could they personally be held responsible? It would go against the very nature of God who is loving, holy, merciful, just and gracious to leave them behind to fulfil His purpose to judge an unbelieving world, and for those reasons i respectfully disagree with your analysis.
“Woe to them that are with child, and nursing mothers” Matthew 24:19, I believe, refers to the tribulation period. Furthermore, we are discussing and estimating the amount of souls departing in the rapture, so I strongly feel 1 Corinthians 7:14 applies to a different topic..Thank you for reading.
Respectfully yors, Meg.
Hi Bill,
I think we need to keep in mind that Jesus said, “woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!” to the very people who will see the abomination of desolation and flee to the mountains. That occurs at the start of the great tribulation period. The great tribulation of 3.5 years contains the last judgments of God on the world.
Why then do some believe babies escape this because God would not allow babies to suffer this judgment on the world? I have more news. Those saved in the great tribulation will suffer and lose their lives for the most part. These are believers, yet they suffer the great tribulation.
The bottom line is thinking that God will not allow children of unbelievers to suffer and will just Rapture the children of unbelievers does meet the reality test. That would be a violation of the free will of the unbelieving parents. I do not see any scriptural support for such a belief.
Great post. Many in professing Christianity will say it wasn’t the rapture because so many “good Christians” are still left. I always knew it wouldn’t be very many. So many false converts. And I don’t believe all babies or those under the age of accountability go in the rapture like so many believe. They say God’s character isn’t like that. But God didn’t spare all the children in Noah’s flood and he won’t be during the rapture. He has no obligation to save those to unbelieving parents. Just my 2 cents.
Meg,
Your own argument argues against you. David was a believer and nobody is saying that babies will not be saved. David’s baby died for the sin of David even through David tried to intercede for him. What did the baby do to deserve death? Yet, it was a judgment of God for David’s sin.
You are wrong about the tribulation. It is not just for those that have rejected Christ. It is a trial at the end of the age designed to make people make a choice between God and Satan. More people will be saved during the tribulation than any other time on earth.
You asked for scriptural support for my view that babies of unbelivers will not be taken in the Rapture and 1 Cor 7:14 supports that. The tribulation follows the Rapture. If God takes unbelievers babies at the Rapture, but does not take babies at the start of the great tribulation He would not be consistent.
Hi Courtney,
Good point about children at the flood, also children in Sodom. Further, God told Israel to kill the innocent children of those dwelling in Canaan. I think those moralizing for God on this topic do not have a biblical leg to stand on.
Don,
So you believe that young children of believers will leave in the rapture, but not of unbelievers. Did I get that correct?
Jim,
I believe the children of those in the Body of Christ go in the Rapture. Noah’s kids went as did Lot’s.
Don the point im making is that David’s child died and went to be with the Lord. But we are discussing those who will depart at the timing of the rapture, so let’s not get off topic. Your argument is that you believe two hundred million will depart in the rapture. I believe all born again believers and those covered by the blood of our Lord will be raptured at that time, that would include all children under the age of accountability and those who are mentally challenged.
The children born at the time after the rapture, will definetly suffer hardship as perilous times are prophesied.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Don , Thank You for your answer and I owe you an apology because I did not conform to your policy of sticking to the subject matter of the article. Before it became NewSpring in 1999 it was known as Messiah Baptist Church . It is a megachurch as attendance for the 4 weekend services is an average of 6200 to 6500 with about 1500 of that number children 4th grade and under. It is located at 12100 21st Street North near 21st Street and K – 96 on 40 acres of property. The website is http://www.newspring.org . Again I apologize for getting of subject, I just wanted any input you might have on the church I attend as I value your input . BLESSINGS !!!!!!
Hey Now..
Exactly! I’m beginning to side with you on this and the great point that Courtney made at the flood and Sodom as you added it would be consistent with the past.
How this for speculation?
God sovereignly knew who would reject Him in the end and appointed those such (unbelieving) souls as a whole to their own kind (unbelieving souls) like… you go there & you go over there… or maybe God placed one believing soul in each non- believing family for possibility of changing some one’s mind. ??
All I know what ever you are working on in this life do it with 100% effort and don’t get side tracked with stuff be right w/ God and lean on Him for strength, direction and pray for discernment and I KNOW He DOES answer prayers.. it’s unbelievable how He does answer my prayers almost crazy like wow.. I know He’s real.
God bless you everyone
Meg,
What I said is not off topic. The child died as a result of a judgment on David. Those children in the tribulation will die as a result of judgment on their parents.
You say you believe what you believe but you have not shown any biblical support for such a belief. I have given both biblical and logical answers why the children of unbelievers will not be going in the Rapture. The Rapture happens to take the Bride of Christ to heaven to prepare for the marriage, it does not happen to take the children of unbelievers off the earth.
As I read the back and forth comments about children and babies going or not going in the rapture I am trying to give all comments serious thought. God is and always has been in some ways mysterious to us. He tells us in Isaiah that His thoughts and ways are above and beyond our thoughts and ways. We are not on the same level with Him in knowledge and understanding.
He is HOLY and just , He will protect the innocent , but He will do it His way and in His timing. We
are not allowed to know everything. Since God cannot learn because he already knows everything we should not worry about what we cannot control. Bottom line , God is in control and He will always do the right thing , He told us He is no respecter of persons. Just TRUST Him .
BLESSINGS to ALL of You !!!!!
Bill,
All babies born of the flesh are unbelieving souls
Don,
Yes they start out unbelieving souls but perhaps God already knows who will become believing?
When David lost his son that he had with Bathsheba, he said he can not come to me, but I will go to him. I believe David’s illegitimate son was saved. Just my 2 cents.
Bill ,
Because of who God is , The I AM , as he told Moses , of course He knows who will and will not accept His grace ,
Don,
l was the 3rd person commented on your post. ln point 3. l wrote (year) lnstead of – here – sorry.
l would like to make 3 comments after read all comments.
1. ln Psalm 139 OUR FATHER said all babies (souls) ls He’s, even Aborted ones, Mis carried ones, old Testament ones, past ones, present ones, future ones, tribulation ones, unbelieve mothers ones, lnnocent children! l don’t know lf my list ls complete? Of all ages (times) came to mind!
2. They are with HIM! – the enemy probably think all abortions ls he’s – l have a surprise for him – when OUR FATHER in Heaven made HIS Calculation to buy us all through JESUS Work of Salvation, HE didn’t exclude anyone! JESUS said to the decipels, LET THE CHILDREN COME TO ME FOR THEY BELONG TO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN – GLORY HALLELUJAH !
3. THE FATHER SAID HE IS NOT LIKE the earthly fathers ! Our conversation on this topic come at no Surprise to HIM!
Sorry Don – 1+ Billion at rapture! 1+ billion when Jesus comes! Trillions of all ages!.
l past your topic time now
Bill,
I am sure God knows who will come to Jesus since He directs them to Jesus through His Spirit but I do think that has anything to do with babies and the Rapture.
James,
David’s son obviously went to heaven where David also went but that is not the same as being a member of the Bride of Christ.
Freddie,
Psalm 139 is not saying some of what you claim. Psalm 139 is a song of David and it is referring to David. Believers can claim the same things as David but unbelievers cannot. Can the wicked mention in Psalm 139 claim Psalm 139?
I do not know what paraphrase you think that you are quoting but throw it away and quote from a real Bible.
I need clarification that I am understanding the babies and children
situation.
1) When they die they most likely go to heaven but are not members of
the Church (body of Christ). Only people who are raptured are members of the Church so therefore babies and children cannot be raptured?
2) Babies and children with at least one believing parent are part of the
Bride of Christ so they will be raptured?
3) During the tribulation all believers and babies/children go to heaven but
are not members of the Church or Brides of Christ?
Donni,
Ugh! Here is what I think.
Only people born from above are members of the New Covenant Church. She is also called the Bride of Christ. Babies that have a believing parent will go with them in the Rapture to Heaven. Babies have earned no rewards and therefore will not rule and reign with Christ on the earth for the thousand year reign. Neither will unprofitable servants rule on earth with Christ, yet they are saved people. Ruling and reigning with the King of Kings for those thousand years is the purpose of the Bride. Tribulation believers that come in after the marriage of the Lamb are not part of the Bride. They are friends of the bride and groom. Those in the bride do not make up all saved people on earth or in heaven. They are just the leadership.
Millions perhaps billions of children have died throughout history, from disease, starvation, thirst torture and murder. What is the difference to children dying in the tribulation. God has their destiny in mind and has indicated very clearly that babes will be with him for eternity.
It is pretty certain that there is an age of accountability, but whether that age is early teens (when children seems to lose their innocence) or twenty when a young man gains manhood, is a moot point, but death of children whether violent or not has been covered by God.
The bride is made up of those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour and been regenerated. This is the fact of the matter. Whether babes or children are part of the bride is purely assumption, but God has dealt with the death of innocents for millennia, he will continue to do so through the Tribulation.
I have just read Donald Fritts’ 12:49 pm comment and believe it is worth taking on board.
Even a child is known by his deeds, Whether what he does is pure and right. Proverbs 20:11. NKJV.
Seems like this verse points out that children are not necessarily innocent just because they are children.
Don, judging from some of the comments, beliefs, etc., I have just read leads me to think you are being overly optimistic with the 200 million count. I am seriously starting to think that if the bulk of people who visit this site actually are believers, the whole body couldn’t agree if grass is green much less of who is or is not going in the Rapture or when it will be. Hey, can’t we at least have some calm and unity here?
Michael,
Most that comment here have unity on the essentials of the Christian faith. Christian believers can have their own opinions where the Bible is not clear. This whole article is my opinion. It is not doctrine. In fact, the title is in the form of a question. Therefore, it should not be surprising that other opinions would arise.
Don,
Speaking of innocent children, was it not our Heavenly Father who, on occasion, ordered Joshua and others to kill every man, women and CHILD (even the animals) of pagan tribes living in His Land? And, did He not send His killer angles to kill the first born male children in Egypt? And, what about the children of the Flood? The list goes on and on. I agree with you, Don. Why would He now spare the children of Cockroach worshipers in India at the rapture?
200 Million is a solid guesstimate. It may be even less than that though. Americans alone are so enveloped in their materialism and money that it is plain to see what god they follow.
Most of the raptured Christians will probably come from Asia if it were to happen in this generation, then again I do not know how much of an influence Eastern a religion plays into the beliefs of “Christians” there. Jesus asked the question, “Will I find faith when I return”? The question seems to be rhetorically no.
As for children being raptured. We do not know with absolute certainty. We can use references from the Bible to come to a likely scenario or outcome. I believe believers’ children will be raptured if said children have not reached the age of understanding. As for unbelievers’ children, I’m not sure. If I had to guess, I would say no. That’s not the same as saying they would go to Hell upon death by the way. I believe that upon death, they would go to be with the Lord.
Reply to Michael , There are some things in God’s Word that are not crystal clear , God has chosen for His own reasons to NOT tell us everything. As Mr. Koenig states , there are areas where The Bible is not clear and that’s God’s business , not ours . Discussion can be healthy and productive as long as we show respect for each other. We all have different and specific gifts according to scripture., the understanding of some is greater than others. We can learn from each other. BLESSINGS to YOU!!!!!!!!
The question of children going in the rapture was actually more personal to me than just being curious and I’ve decided to share that with all of you as it’s been on my mind for a very long time.
My mother worked in child evangelism for many years. (This was in Wichita, Ks incidentally.)
Mom was the one who had the after school “Good News Club.” Bunches of kids would come to our house once a week to sing songs like ‘Deep and Wide,’ ‘This little Light of Mine,” Jesus Loves Me,” etc. Then they listened as mom told bible stories using the flannel graph as visual aid. She always gave an invitation to ask Jesus into your heart (the traditional way) at the end of the hour. Then the kids got cookies and kool aid when they left.
Mom was also the director of vacation bible school at the church every summer. She was into getting kids saved.
After I became an adult I started questioning it. If she believed all children go to heaven before they’ve reached the age of accountability why the rush to get them saved? Did they really understand salvation? What happened to all those kids who asked Jesus into their hearts after they became adults since obviously we haven’t been raptured? Did the little Jehovah’s Witness boy continue on in his new Christian faith or did he return to his parent’s teaching? What about the girl who killed herself when she was 25?
I still don’t know the answers but i found out from my brother at mom’s funeral 2 years ago that she was afraid all her work would be burned up. That might have been my fault for throwing those questions at her and I should have kept my mouth shut. I was wrong to even bring the topic up.
Mom did the work she believed she should do and I’m pretty sure the Lord is pleased with her witness.
Don’s answer makes the most biblical sense to me but if I could go back in time I would never question mom on it again.
Thanks for listening.
That makes a lot of sense about Noah’s children, and Lot’s children. And I never truley understood what Jesus meant when he said that…Thank you for clarifying. I’m still learning about biblical teaching and prophesy so please forgive my question and causing a stir, I was unsure and didn’t understand.
Just my 2 cents, but asking Jesus in to our hearts never saved anyone. Salvation is believing that Jesus being God and man, lived a perfect life, died on the cross to take all of our sins upon him, and rose again on the third day. It is the gift of God to save us with nothing from ourselves. Ephesians 2:8-9. We are saved by grace, through faith, with nothing from us so no man can boast. We did nothing for it and have nothing to boast in except the cross.
If we add one of our works to what Christ did for us, then we are in effect taking the glory from God and giving it to ourselves. After salvation we should do good works to bring glory to God for saving us, and to earn rewards in heaven. Good works without faith are dead. Without faith it is impossible to please Him.
But Christ is our righteousness as we have none in ourselves. We are made complete in Him when we first believed, when His spirit joined our spirit and we became the sons and daughters of God by faith alone. John 6:37-40 We have eternal life through the spirit that lives in us. We can no longer be condemned. We should not use grace for license, but we are all still sinners and grace abounds where sin abounds. First John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. First John 1:10, If we say we have not sinned we make God a liar.
No one can be without sin in this life, but we will be like Him at the resurrection. We are justified sinners by faith alone, not by what we do or do not do. (our works) If we could have been saved any other way then Christ died in vain.
First John 5:13 So that we know we are saved by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ plus nothing from us. It is a free gift. Jesus wants us to know we are saved. Saved from what? Hell. No one can save themselves. Jesus is our only savior. He has nailed all of our sins to the cross and washed them away with His own blood. He is our blood sacrifice that took all of our sins upon Him, and gave us His perfect righteousness as a free gift. Romans 4:1-8
James Kraft,
I know and my mother knew. I wasn’t going to take up more space explaining everything she taught those kids, it wasn’t my point.
James,
Even though what you say is mostly true. You keep saying saying the same things over and over again in different words in the comments on my posts. I am going to start deleting your statements where they are not appropriate because they are violating my commenting policy. Even biblical truths can get the comments off topic. Read my commenting policy.
James you just repeated what u said a month ago, did u copy/paste it? I just saw where Don set u straight, come on man. I’m beginning to think something’s’ not right w/ u.
Actually I first see the name on the post then go.. oh that guy and don’t read it just quickly scan it to verify it’s repeat.
As far as children, I would think God can tell which ones would become true believers by His omniscience and those that would choose otherwise. The number of Christians in persecuted lands: China-100 mil with projected 250 mil by 2030; Africa- 420 mil; India- 24 mil and the Middle East—10 mil most likely are not the luke warm believers Jesus tells us about. God saved 8 in the flood and with the symbolism in the Bible I could imagine 800 million being raptured up on that glorious day but that is just my opinion. Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it; is a scripture that has always provided my proper fear of my Father. I would consider 1 out of 10 being raptured from the total population you projected at 8 billion to be few. I hope we are both wrong and when Jesus ask the Father to forgive those at Calvary who not only did not believe in Him but were responsible for His murder has given me great pause to limit Jesus’ forgiveness and grace!
HI Stephen,
I think your estimate of Christians in China might be too high. There is also no reason to believe that China will have many more Christians in 2030. The population increase between now and then does not support for a large increase and I doubt if there will be that level of proselyting. Not all of those “Christians” are true Christians either. Some are in cults and some are Catholics.
The number of Christians in Africa is also way over blown. Those that mix native religions with Word of faith theology are not true Christians. That is most in Africa that are not Catholics.
God is not going to take Children in the Rapture based on His omniscience that these babies would have became true believers. The concept is rather silly.
Again, you and others are confusing those going in the Rapture with people that are saved. The Bible teaches that many more people will be saved after the Rapture. In fact, the Bible says those saved during the great tribulation are countless.
I tend to think that the Bride is ten percent of those that will be saved. They will be the 1 in 10 leadership for the millennial reign. Some will rule over ten people and some will rule over ten cities. This concept is based on how the leadership of ancient Israel was set up and the Lord’s parable on rewards.
Don,
Over the years, I’d estimate about 30 years, I’ve heard much conjecture on the actual number that will be taken in “The Rapture”….my perception is your mathematical probability is at least as good, if not better than any I’ve heard….I’m referring to the actual number you describe in this article, 200 Million.
I have nothing to esteem your probability number, nor, do I have anything to disagree with on that number.
I do have something of an observation to contribute to this article, however.
I’ve been listening intently to Calvary Chapel and other Pastors for an estimated 30 years.
Twenty to Thirty years ago, it was JUST one of many “A Topic”.
It seems to me today that talk of “The Rapture” today is most paramount and a top topic among most of the pastors I listen to today.
Very rarely do I hear a pastor speak today without a sharp focus on “The Rapture”.
A sign of the times ?
Hi ~David,
I think that is unique to teachers in some Calvary Chapels and on the Calvary Chapel media. Many Calvary Chapel teachers still believe in premillennial dispensational theology like did their founder Chuck Smith. However, the vast majority of evangelical pastors today talk much less about end times or the Rapture than they did just a couple of decades ago. Assemblies of God is another exception that teaches premillennial eschatology and it dominates Christian TV. Even so, Eschatology is no longer taught in most churches
Don,
I do not know all that is out there being taught from most TV Evangeslists…or other denominations.
For several years, however, I have watched Hal Lindsey and Jack Van Impe every week…
They tend to have a sharp focus on the impending “Rapture”.
If I remember correctly, I think Hal Lindsey and Jack Van Impe have predicted a much greater in number to be Raptured than 200 Million, I don’t remember them ever giving a sound mathematical breakdown as you did in this article…mostly world impacting assumptions in their thinking likely based on nothing.
The 200 Million, if that is indeed the way it works out, will not obviously have the World impact and severity that some claim.
The world is moving towards ever increasing turmoil anyway, the “Disappearance” of many might not even be a paramount concern by many with all that will be happening.
~David,
Obviously if you are only going to listen to premillennial dispensational Bible teachers you are only going to hear that kind of teaching. However, permillinniel dispenational teaching is in rapid decline in Bible colleges. seminaries and in our churches. In this post article there is a link to my article about this. You can’t cherry pick teachers and then say your small bunch reflects the beliefs of Christendom.
I do not think Hal Lindsey or Jack Van Impe ever gave any number for the Rapture. They do however think that anyone that ever repeated their salvation words will go in the Rapture. I am not sure of their positions on the children of unbelievers. I know Lahaye thought they would go. It really does not matter what these Bible prophecy teachers think anyway about this. They are not infallible on issues that the Bible does not speak of.
I do think the disappearance of Christians will have a major impact on the world. However, the Antichrist will spin why they were take off the earth. I have said before that New Age teaching claims that those that hinder the spiritual evolution of man have to be removed from the earth so that the spiritual leap forward of man can even occur. The spin on this could be part of the great deception. The world will believe a lie.
Has anyone seen the :Black Hole Sun” music video? (Tea Garden) It’s really creepy. Christians would interpret it as the New Age version of the rapture. Evil people are being removed from the earth (us) via floating toward the sun.
My son told me the New Agers already had their story ready to tell after our disappearance.
We weren’t ready for the New World so the aliens took us for rehabilitation. I assume that is a spiritual rehabilitation.
It’s a plausible lie. I remember hearing an Oregon lawmaker say Christians needed to be rehabilitated. That was when the Christian couple refused to bake the cake for the gay wedding.
We’ve talked about the alien story before so put them together and it might just catch on.
how brainwashed does a person have to be to believe this lie? its just amazing how deceived people can get
I was hoping you could expand on two sentences in your article.
The first-fruits end with the sealing of the 144,000 Jews. After that comes the great harvest on earth.
The harvest has 3 parts: 1) first-fruits 2) main harvest 3) the corners and gleanings.
The first person to be saved after the sealing of the 144,000 starts the
main or great harvest? Who are the gleanings?
I did reread some of your earlier writings hoping to find the answer.
I loved your Revelation 9:16 correlation with the two hundred million.
Hi Donni,
The gleanings would occur after the great harvest in the tribulation. The gleanings probably are those that survived the tribulation and attain to the sheep and goat judgment of the nations. This judgment determines who that survived will be allowed into the kingdom and who will be cut off from the earth. The judgement is determined by how they treated the 144,000 Israelite brethren preaching the gospel of the coming kingdom to the whole world.
it means..train your children Teach them about Christ.time to get them off the games and social media and …teach them.I have sung hymns to Jackson since he was born.His mother is saved as is ( supposedly) his father who choose to finally meet his child. at age 5. And yet, all I could do was cry. reunions, redemptions..they happen.keep praying, Keep believing.
Don,
Your calculations on the possible 200,000,000 are compelling. Hard to ague with your logic. Unfortunately, I suspect your number is too high?
You came closer when you began using the words “tithe” and 144,000.
We’re told that the 144,000 are the “first fruits” = Tithe = 10%, as in of the “harvest” of the “known” of God, the rapture.
Do the math:
X times 10% = 144,000
X = 144,000/.1
X = 1,440,000
1,440,000 – the 144,000 = about 1.3 million.
I hope this is incorrect and your number is right. Unfortunately, this number is a likely one on the low side, and your number is a good one on the high side.
The great news is that when the interim report card of the rapture comes in and all those who assumed they had an “A” find out they don’t even have a passing grade, they can know what to do to improve their situation. The 144,000 will help them know. Myriads upon Myriads will then get real and become “known” by God. (see Gal 4:9 as opposed to Matt 7:22-23)
Not only that, but for the first time ever, Jesus’ church will be united … and powerful. Like never before. God will have pulled off the biggest rope a dope in history. In His grace, those marginalists will move to the front of the line and finally give themselves fully to Him for His use, for His glory. Churchianity matures into the church. She will have power and move as she is directed in that power.
God is so big.
Hi Steve Tipton,
The Rapture of the Bride is before the 144,000 Jews are sealed. They are first fruits of Israel not the Bride. I am certain that there are more than 1.3 million true Christian in the world. There probably are that many just in the state of Missouri.
Well, that is again logical.
God being outside of time can simultaneously tell a story from multiple “vantage points”. Most of us engineer types try to make things linear. Have you ever viewed the movie “Vantage Point”? how the story is told reveals a final prophetic “hermanutic” that most of us engineer types miss.
I know this is an unusual question sir, but have you ever considered asking God to stay and minister to the left behind?
I wish you well. God’s speed Don.
Steve,
God has always fulfilled prophecy through a logical literal fulfillment. God does not change. People that want to suggest differently are just deluding themselves.
As for your question about God staying and ministering to the left behind, God is everywhere, He is not going anywhere. His Spirit will be dealing with those left behind after the Rapture. In fact, the reason for the tribulation is to get all on earth to make a choice about who they will serve before Jesus kingdom comes on earth.
I’m sorry Don. I meant have you ever considered asking God if you could stay?
As for the logic and litteral, I’m with you 100%. The question is linear or “rewind”. If you view the movie Vantage Point, it’s script is “linear” from page 1 to say page 200, as is the book of Revelation as Jesus’ angel revealed it to John. The movie however had 6 “rewinds” from differing points of view. Once the 6 vantage points are all told, the clear picture of the story emerges.
That concept of simultaneously told stories is the last hermanutic we have been missing.
If this is getting too far off topic, I would enjoy sharing with you in private. Please advise?
Again, I wish you God’s speed.
Steve,
If your talking about those in the Body of Christ choosing to stay after He removes His body, it is an impossibility.
The scriptures gives enough points of view so that we can figure out the stuff that we need to know for faith and practice and that includes Bible prophecy. For example, there are four gospels covering the same 3.5 years that Jesus was giving His testimony on earth. Also, besides Revelation there are all the prophets of the Old Testament who also cover the end of the age prophecies.
I see nothing to share about in private in regard to your comments.
I like your answer sir. It’s rational. Indeed, it would be impossible with man, but I have it on good word that with God, “all things are possible”.
I have asked to stay.
Perhaps God will say “thanks but no, I have this covered”. But He might say, “yes, I’ve been waiting for you to ask. Please prepare for your mission”.
Even so, come Lord Jesus.
Steve,
Your not getting it. The Church is the Body of Christ born of the Holy Spirit, The bride of Christ is in betrothal to the one that laid down His life for Her and purchased her with His blood. When the Bride of Christ is taken to heaven to attend the marriage ceremony all members that make up the Bride are taken. All things are possible for God but it is impossible for God to deny what He already revealed as truth.
I’m so impressed that you allow me this time. Thank you.
By the way, I really like your rules for the blog. Well done! Wish I had thought of it. I hope people continue to abide by them, and use your site to build one another up.
I’m totally impressed that you were able to get the pic from my site! Cool! That’s a pic of a young man that I’ve discipled and sent on two missionary journeys, one to Africa, and one to Israel.
Indeed, my argument on staying would be one from silence. God never states an exception to taking his entire bride.
Based on the sacrifice that Jesus made for me, the wicked sinner, I’m akin to the leper who returned. Ten were ecstatic that they were healed. Only one returned.
Perhaps my request of God is poor theology? Perhaps all God wanted was for my lost heart to mature and make the request, even though the answer would be no thank you?
Don your Rapture estimate figures are pretty close to what will probably happen. I’d invite you to consider 4.5% of the population will be taken if we thoroughly study the Matthew 13 parable of the sower.
Doing the Math on The Kingdom Parable of The Sower Matthew 13
Matthew 13:1-9, 18-23.
1 The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Here is a comprehensive explanation of The Parable of the Sower presented in “The Coming Kingdom” by Dr. Andrew Woods Matthew 13:1-9, 18-23, (pgs 110-113).
Parable of the Sower In the famous Parable of the Sower (Matt. 13:1–9, 18–23), Christ explained that the gospel will be faithfully preached throughout the current age with varying results depending upon the receptivity of the human heart.. ….. if the Parable of the Sower communicates anything concerning the gospel in the present age, it conveys its lack of progress. Only on one type of soil is the gospel fruitful. Even there, it is fruitful in decreasing proportions. The lack of progress in the receptivity of the gospel as communicated in the Parable of the Sower conveys the idea that the present age should not be confused with the kingdom for the simple reason that the kingdom will represent a time in history when “the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea” (Isa. 11:9). Pink observes: One great design of this opening parable is to teach us the measure of success which the Gospel would receive among the Gentiles. In other words, we are shown what the results of this broadcast sowing of the Seed would be. First of all, most of the ground upon which it fell would prove unfavorable: the hard, shallow, and thorny soils were uncongenial to productiveness. Second, external opposition would be encountered: the birds of the air would come and catch it away. Third, the sun would scorch, and that which was lacking in moisture at its roots would wither away. Only a fractional part of the Seed sown would yield any increase, and thus all expectations for the ultimate universal triumph of the Gospel were removed. The plain teaching of our present parable should at once dissipate the optimistic but vain dreams of post-millenarians. It answers clearly and conclusively the following questions: What is to be the result of the broadcast sowing of the seed? Will all the world receive it and every part of the field produce fruit? Will the seed spring up and bear a universal harvest, so that not a single grain of it is lost? Our Savior explicitly tells us that the greater part of the seed produces no fruit, so that no world-wide conquests by the Gospel, in the Christianizing of the race, are to be looked for. Nor was there any hint that, as the age progressed, there would be any change, and that later sowers would meet with greater success, so that the wayside, stony, and thorny ground hearers would cease to exist or would rarely be found. Instead of that, the Lord Himself has plainly warned us that instead of the fruitage from the Gospel showing an increase, there would be a marked decrease; for when speaking of the fruit borne He said, “which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundred fold, some sixty, some thirty” (v. 23).9 End Quote.
After studying the above. my heart was stirred by the Holy Spirit to actually put numbers to this parable, to actually quantify the words in a more concrete way.
Please observe:
Most 75% never even get the word of truth. The remaining 25% who do receive the word even diminishes with time in these last days down to precisely -> 30% of that original 25%.
It looks like this:
100 people standing in a room reserved for saved people. 75 of them are lost, they want to go elsewhere and walk out of the room, leaving only 25 standing in the room. One day later 10 more change their mind and exit. Now only 15 people remain. One day later another 10 exit with 5 (barely 5 since 3O% of 15 souls is 4.5… (4+5 = 9 – Judgement).
So in summary, Out of 100 people only 5 (less than 5 actually, but 4.5 ) in these last days will actually receive the word of truth and have it thrive in their lives.
Less than 5% … We have to keep this in mind when dealing with this crazy world.
Pray that you may be found worthy to be among this small group of the faithful whom our Lord finds when our day of Redemption comes.
Amen! Maranatha!
Posted by Traveler Andrew Sheets
The passage where we get the most clear picture of the rapture is in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 starting with verse 13. The letter to Philadelphia is hardly the only place in the bible where it is mentioned.
Also, these were literal churches in Asia Minor that Jesus gave John letters for. While scripture, of course, often has double applications when dealing with the prophetic, it is clear that the church in Philadelphia wasn’t the only congregation of the seven churches in which the congregants therein were saved. Otherwise there wouldn’t have been an “angel” of each church for Jesus to send the message to! It would be a poor double application if the greater fulfilment circumvented the details of the lesser fulfilment rather than completing the picture, don’t you think?
David,
There certainly were first century applications to actual existing churches.
Even so, I think each church also represents prominent periods through the Church age. For example Philadelphia was the missionary period. We are now in Laodicea. The last four church types overlap because members identified with each of them still exist on earth. The deliverance from the time of the great tribulation is only promised to members having the Holy Spirit who by nature hold on to the Word of God and His coming. Thus, the promise to Philadelphia.
I agree with your educated guesses on the numbers except I’m leaning more towards a 2027-2028 Rapture. Just a guess on my part though. I do not pretend to actually know but it is fun to speculate based off of tidbits here and there.