Titles can be deceiving. I did not go into some altered state and cross over into the unseen realm of the spiritual world. I read a book called “The Unseen Realm“, by Dr. Michael S. Heiser. I want to share a few observations about my journey into his unseen realm. If Heiser is successful with his teaching in this book, you will come out of The Unseen Realm with a supernatural Deuteronomy 32 worldview.
First, let me say that Dr. Heiser is a highly qualified Near East ancient texts scholar. He can and he does read many of the texts of the most ancient scripture fragments. He also is a scholar that is well versed in Second Temple and Mesopotamian Literature.
This article is not a book review of The Unseen Realm. I don’t see how I could even do that without plagiarizing the major points in his book. If you want to know most of the details, you will need to read the book. Forgive me if I go beyond the book and add some of my own thoughts in the process.
I think that anyone that spends as much time as Heiser has on this subject ought to be able to make a living from his contribution to Christian Theology. I do not like it when people just copy the major points of someone else and then just tattle it to others as if they thought of it. This book by Dr. Heiser only came about after ten years of study, debate and much peer review. I suggest that serious people who can afford such works support the efforts of people like Dr. Heiser. This is a book that you are not likely to find on popular fluff shelves of “Christian” book stores.
This book conflicts with many of the traditional views that you probably were taught. If learning new things from the point of view of the ancient people that the scriptures were given to rocks your boat, stay in the shallower harbors.
I will try to try to define the Deuteronomy 32 worldview or most readers will not have a clue what this worldview is all about.
The Deuteronomy 32 supernatural worldview.
Briefly, it is the worldview that Yahweh divided the nations at Babel and then gave them over to be ruled by lessor divine beings *(also identified as Elohim). This occurred because of human and divine rebellion against the Most High God (Yahweh). The view is based on an interpretation of Deuteronomy 32 and Psalm 82 and what ancients actually recorded in non canonical literature.
*(Apparently all beings in the spiritual unseen world in biblical Hebrew are identified as Elohim but there is only one Elohim that is the most high God. He is Yahweh. The word Elohim just identifies spiritual beings that normally occupy the unseen realm.)
Because of the rebellion at Babel, that included both humans and Elohim, Yahweh gave the nations over to the rebellious Elohim to have their own way. There was one exception mentioned in Deuteronomy 32:9, Jacob (Israel), would be Yahweh’s portion.
Yahweh took out a people for Himself through the seed of Abraham. Jacob/Israel was to become a nations of priests that would bless the nations by freeing the descendants of Adam from their enslavement to these territorial Elohim. God would accomplish two major things through Israel. The defeat of the rebellious Elohim of the unseen realm and the restoration of paradise lost.
Israel’s history is about the war between the people of God (Israel) and the seed of the serpent that controlled the Gentile nations. Yahweh (Jesus) became incarnate through an Israelite virgin. He ultimately would defeat the Elohim that kept mankind in bondage to sin and death by His sacrifice for sin on the cross.
The main support for the claim that God was angry with the Elohim that ruled the known world comes from an interpretation of Psalm 82. This interpretation can be partly supported by the Dead Sea Scrolls and totally supported by ancient non canonical literature such as Enoch 1.
That interpretation of Psalm 82 then becomes the filter that Dr. Heiser (and others with this worldview) use for much of the Bible. I am not saying there is no other support for this view in the Bible, but without these nontraditional interpretations of Deuteronomy 32 and Psalm 82 the biblical foundation to build this worldview upon would not exist.
My views on Heiser’s theology in The Unseen Realm.
First, let me say that I do not see anything heretical about his views. Those that claim Heiser’s view of God is heretical use straw man arguments like God is almighty and has no need of a divine council. Certainly God does not need them, but obviously, God chooses to use created beings to rule with Him in His creation. After all, even us Christians will one day rule and reign with Christ as divine beings.
Everything that Moses set up on earth was a copy of what was going on in the unseen realm. Israel had a ruling council of elders set up according to what was seen in heaven. We do see a council of elders in the heavenly throne room in Daniel and Revelation and it is implied elsewhere.
Other critics of Heiser think that man does not have free will. That is not the case. The sons of God were created to image God and God is free. God did not create robots to image Him. That is against His own divine nature. Freewill is not free unless the imagers of God can make their own choices. They must learn to freely choose God or to reject Him. That is what our own sojourn here is all about. We either choose to become imagers of God by putting on Christ or we choose to continue to image the Devil. We choose who we will serve.
It is easy for me to buy into this Deuteronomy 32 worldview because two decades ago I came to the conclusion that some of the traditional theories of the Bible were unsupportable by any honest reading of the scriptures. For example, the traditional Sons of Seth Theory to explain the Nephilim giants was total nonsense to me. That explanation did not even meet the common sense test. It also did not explain why those living in biblical times had supernatural explanations in their writings about the Nephilim that actually agreed with a unfiltered reading of Genesis.
Even through I agree with much of what Heiser said in the book, I do disagree with some of what he claims. I can agree with the general thesis of The Unseen Realm but also disagree with certain conjectures and statements that Dr, Michael Heiser makes.
For example, Heiser seems to contradict himself on one very important issue (that is if I heard him and am reading him correctly – you be the judge). I remember Dr. Heiser clearly saying in a YouTube lecture that he believes that God foreknows everything. However, in The Unseen Realm, he seems to imply that God needed to keep adjusting His overall plan to defeat the adversary because humans always failed.
I think God foreknew everything that would happen before the foundation of the world. This is what Michael Heiser said on Page 240 in The Unseen Realm (the bold emphasis is mine).
“The apostasy of his people and their subsequent exile prompted a change in Yahweh’s approach to restoring his rule on earth
… snip…
There could only be one solution, through it would have two strategic deployments. God understood that only he could be trusted with perfectly accomplishing his own will. He would therefore have to become man and, in addition, he would have to inhabit the hearts of his children.”
It prompted a change in Yahweh’s approach?? God understood?? He would therefore have to become a man??
Heiser seems to be saying that the incarnation only came in God’s mind after Israel failed? How then can God foreknow everything? I believe that Heiser teaches that God foreknows everything so I have to think that Heiser was just trying to make it understandable from a human point of view. Nevertheless, what was said here gives people a different impression.
I also think there is a major flaw in Heiser’s view of future prophetic scriptures. One of Dr. Heiser’s prime objective is to get Christians to understand the scriptures through the eyes of the ancient people that the scriptures were given to. That is correct thinking for the most part, however, it fails to consider that God is not limited to what the ancients understood about the scriptures that were delivered to them.
There were scriptures given to them that only future generations could understand. The progressive unfolding of various Christian theologies is well-known and accepted within Christian academia. This should also be true with Eschatology. We cannot understand future Bible prophecy by just looking through the eyes of ancient people. They were so far removed that they could not possibly have comprehend a literal future fulfillment. I think we first have to see the big picture about God’s future agenda to get the specific unfulfilled prophecies correct.
Heiser claims that he does not have any specific system of Eschatology. He claims the biblical text is riddled with ambiguities that undermine the certainty of modern eschatological systems. He thinks these things are deliberately cryptic. He claims much might be a metaphor so our modern expectations about how a given prophecy will “work” are inherently unsure (p 349).
From what I read and heard Heiser say, it seems to me that Heiser has a supernatural view that retains most of the views of Covenant Theology. I know that Covenant Theology is the major view in Christianity and it certainly is the view taught in most Bible colleges and seminaries but I do not believe that you can get end time Bible prophecy correct if you believe in Covenant Theology.
Heiser seems to think that all eschatological systems have equal merit or at least some merit. I disagree. I know that we certainly don’t have everything all figured out about end time Bible prophecy but I think one system of eschatological interpretation makes the most sense by a long shot. That system is Premillennial Dispensational Theology.
Is Eschatology the only major theology of Christianity that should stay confused? Or is there Holy Spirit led progressive enlightenment going on here as well? If Heiser and others at this late date can offer enlightenment on a worldview that explains what is happening in the unseen realm, why can’t other scholars get enlightenment to figure out the correct system to explain end times events? I think they can, and for the most part they have. Even so, nobody should confuse Dispensational Theology with the convoluted eschatology of the postmodern Bible prophecy teachers found all over the modern media.
Allegorical interpretation of future prophecy or just saying that they are a metaphor (figure of speech) is something widely accepted by most of Christendom for sure. However, their lack of literalism is also why they will not consider Heiser’s supernatural worldview in spite of the evidence (they don’t want to be confused with the facts). The real problem with most in Christendom is that they do not want to believe what God actually said in scripture. That is because it would not fit the traditions that were passed down to them or fit their current modern and postmodern worldviews.
How much literalism does one need to see before they catch on that God literally intends to fulfill what the prophets said about the end times? Jews being back in their covenant land and many nations hating them should be one big clue that God has a literal prophetic fulfillment and millennial agenda remaining for the physical nation of Israel.
The pretribulation Rapture and the tribulation are not metaphors. The Beast/Son of Perdition/Antichrist is no metaphor, so why would events associated with the coming of the Antichrist, the birth pains, the judgments and the restoration of the promised kingdom be metaphors? I am not saying that Heiser believes that they are, but, modern man should take future Bible prophecy literally or he might be better off not taking it at all. Revelation warns those that would distort anything that is written in the prophecy. Is that warning also just a metaphor?
If it is not literal to the generation that it is fulfilled in, what is the point of God even giving precise details about future events? Bible prophecy just becomes man-centered politically correct feel good “kingdom now” nonsense when theologians become free to redefine anything that does not fit their postmodern worldview as being allegory or some figure of speech.
It is my understanding that Heiser is writing a novel that will contain some of his own eschatology. I am pretty sure it will build on The Facade novel that he wrote 15 years ago. What would that theology be? The return of the Elohim from the unseen realm to fulfill some things said in Revelation? I would think so. That will fit in nicely with the conjectures of others that have their own version of the supernatural unseen realm fulfilling some of what Revelation says.
I personally think the supernatural view about the end times will turn out to be correct. Although I also think that many with this supernatural worldview are now trying to shoe-Horn it in a timeline that simply will not fit (that would not include Heiser). I guess that sells books. Nevertheless, it can’t happen until the restrainer is removed. At this point, I don’t think anyone can offer anything but conjecture about all the natural or supernatural details that will arrive with the Beast and his false prophet.
Everything on Bible prophecy media today is about the coming of the Antichrist. They do not even try to explain what the Two prophets of God will be doing for 1260 days. Everyone forgets that they will appear 1260 days before the Son of Perdition/Beast/Antichrist even rises out of the Abyss.
These two witnesses of God apparently torment the unbelieving world and have the power to call down judgments on the world as often as they wish (Rev 11:6). Are plagues and turning water into blood just metaphors? I think not. However, all we hear on the Bible prophecy media is about the imminent coming of the Antichrist. Some even say he is already here. Until the two prophets appear I think I will stick with what the scripture actually says and try to keep my return of Apollo and Zeus conjectures to a bare minimum.
It looks like the unseen realm somehow put me on a soapbox.
From those last statements, I might have seemed critical of this book with its supernatural worldview but actually I like The Unseen Realm very much. Heiser’s unseen realm with its Deuteronomy 32 worldview is not going to be accepted by the world or even most in Christendom. Even so, it is quite logical and it is built on what the ancient records actually say. I can’t really tell you the gems that are in this book without resorting to plagiarism so I am not going to even try. Besides, this post is already much longer than postmodern’s will read.
I suggest that you get a copy of The Unseen Realm. Then after you read it you might want to discuss it in the comments section here. As Michael Heiser suggests, the book is not the end of the discussion and discovery, it really is just the beginning. After reading this book, you may never see what is written in the Bible quite the same.
For you people who cannot afford the book, you can find Heiser’s lectures and interviews on The Unseen Realm on YouTube. Just type in his name. Most of the major points covered in the book can be found on YouTube or on Heiser’s websites.
Don, I had sent for “The Unseen Realm” after it being referenced in your prior blog, as I am always looking for books to increase my knowledge. I am about half way through the book, and early on I realized it’s quite a bit above my pay-grade (I seem to come away from reading it with a pounding brain). I thank you for your critique. I’m hoping through the discussions surely to come and your responses to comments, that it will help considerably in my understanding.
I agree with you that the Sons of Seth theory just didn’t make sense, even though one of my most favorite Bible commentators of all time, J. Vernon McGee, subscribed to that theory. Goes to show, even great men can be wrong about some things, and we shouldn’t be dogmatic about anything to the point we can’t entertain new information and thoughts.
It certainly seems to me that there must be some truth to the “unseen realm” when you consider all the references in the Bible to “warfare” going on among princes and principalities. Surely some unseen force is manipulating the leaders of this world, considering how insane things have become and how far away from God’s principles that most countries have evolved, and of course I’m thinking mostly about America and how godless she has become.
I wish you could have been more detailed in your review, but maybe as this blog progresses, those points you would like to make will be made.
Hi Linda,
As you know there are a lot of points in the book. I just can’t address them without writing a book parallel to The Unseen Ream that would have to quote a lot of what was said. Since I agree with most of what was said in the book it also would be seen as plagiarism and it would be.
I will addresses certain issues that people bring up in the comments if I feel I can add some enlightenment or if I see things differently than Heiser.
I have to admit I do not hear much Bible based theology anymore that teaches me anything that I have not already heard before or does not cross over to the Bible Prophecy Twilight Zone. Most teachers soon put me asleep and many are just making things up as they go along. This book is one of the rare exceptions.
Don,
I too recently received the Unseen Realm and am about a quarter of the way in. Have viewed also 4-5 hrs of video via YouTube. I must say I find it jarring to conceptualize Heisers viewpoint of the pluralized Elohim being “lesser deities”. The word “diety” has all my Christian Life, only encompassed The Father,Jesus,and Holy Spirit..not that I do or don’t believe in “lesser gods”. It’s the words themselves I find unsettling. But as the author says.”why should we be afraid of our Bibles?”. Anyhow just trying my best to comprehend . your post I thought was impressively written and your overview has helped me see the big picture of Heisers viewpoints. Again,no flattery intended..great post.
Hi Don,
I was reading some reviews on Amazon of “The Unseen Realm” and I’m guessing it will be way over my head.Your article ,which I really appreciate,had my head spinning as it is.
I have read your site for years and you always give me lots to think about.It sends me digging into God’s word.
What is ,exactly,the son’s of Seth theory?
Hi Cheryl,
The book really is an easy read. There also is another book by Heiser that gives the same story so that any lay person could understand it. I believe it is called “Supernatural”. It is a lower cost book in paperback.
The Sons of Seth Theory is that the sons of Seth were the Sons of God (Elohim) that were mentioned in Genesis 6:4. The daughters of men that they cohabited with are said to be the daughters of Cain. Their offspring were the Nephilim (giants) mentioned. There is no biblical support for this theory and it does not explain the giants or many other things.
It is the traditional explanation taught in Christendom because modern Christians do not want to believe that supernatural fallen beings from the unseen realm actually corrupted flesh on the earth and was the reason for the flood. Even so, the truth is found in what the Bible actually says and in the writings of people that lived on the earth thousands of years ago.
By the way, I wrote an article over 15 years ago that mentions such things.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/reasons/aliens.HTM
Thank you,Don.
I just read your 15 year old article.I have read that before and I knew the Seth theory sounded familiar,but didn’t know where to look on your site.That theory makes no sense to me.I’m with you and I too think it will happen again.Why would it not?
I pray daily the Jesus will hasten His return.I’m ready to go home!
Thanks again Don… The word pragmatic always comes to mind when I read your articles and this is no exception.
Luke 10:24 gives support to your contention found in the paragraph headed “There were scriptures given to them that only future generations could understand”
“For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.”
We have the advantage, for all things are complete in Jesus and we have the final compilation of God’s word in and through him.
I enjoyed this.
I need that book but for now I’m through pt3 on the videos.
I was trying to explain some of this to my sister and it came out a jumbled mess, lol. I did however manage to get the concept of the Nachash over. She was very open to it and this is her question and I had wondered about it too.
Eve was talking to a divine being, the Nachash, who may have been disguised as a serpent, as Dr Heiser said. Anyway she was not talking to a snake. So, how do we interpret Gen:14? So the Lord God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life.”
(I understand the rest of the passage.) Traditionally it’s been explained that the serpent (snake) was punished because it let Satan inhabit it’s body but that isn’t what Dr. Heiser seems to be suggesting. Eve was not talking to any member of the animal kingdom that lost it’s legs after the fall.
Don you might have to interpret my question because I don’t feel like I’ve been clear.
Caitlin
Heiser explains all that in the book. the Nashash was not disguised as a serpent and did not possess an animal. The Nashash is a serpentine shaped shining divine being. Eve was not talking with an animal she was talking with an Elohim.
The explanation of what Heiser believes happens takes a whole chapter so I cannot just explain it for you in a few words. It goes something like this. The Naschash was not an animal and did not become one. Snakes do not eat dust anyway. In other words, it was a Metaphor. It was talking about the Naschash who believed he would ascend to becoming like the most high being cast out of Eden into the underworld of Sheol. That is lower than dirt. Dirt is the level that animal return to.
My own view is that there probably is some connection with the snake of the animal kingdom involved here as well.
You probably can find a YouTube lecture where Heiser explains his view. You also can probably find it on his Naked Bible podcasts as well.
well, I reviewed some things on the website, and while I agree some are taking nephilim, etc out of context, thus his fight against “UFO ” religions, much of it was unclear, and the Bible clearly tells us there are spiritual kingdoms and a spiritual war. but I don;t think God “adjusted’ his plan and was just mad at Elohim over Babel, etc. No, Jesus knew he would die for sin from the beginning. it was just little things like that, that I have to say no thanks to this man’s writings.I had heard of the wise one or shining serpentine being, not animal, in the Garden of Eden before.
Yes, I really tried to cover the basics, the linguistics is fascinating, the idea of Baal as their go to form of worship since the Lord was unseen,etc. Sometimes things just get a little too academic and out of context… so I’m a no vote on this one, Sorry.
I am leaning towards Faith on this issue. However, many places in the Bible refer to Satan as the god of this world. It also refers to many other gods. The traditional teaching that Satan was a fallen angle who brought other fallen angels with him could really just be a terminology error. Does it really change the bible to know that Satan is a lessor god? Many places also refer to the spiritual realm and other entities. The end time events seem to talk about Satan’s demise. Is there any scriptures that talk about the lesser gods fate after the tribulation?
Satan is bound in the abyss for a thousand years according to Revelation. I suppose his angels will be bound with him. The Bible says the Lake of Fire was prepared for the Devil and his angels. Obviously then Satan has company in his fate.
It helps to see in the ancient view perspective to understand or comprehend the whole spectrum of God’s plan for this age & age to come.
To really see it u almost have to become a seer.
Certainly God foreknew each & every entities decision’s based on freewill but He just needed it to play out for two reasons, one.. that the particular person or Elohim would come to know his/her ability to be a team player and to see his own empowerment of being on the correct side or team and secondly the Lord desires to have real players w/ heart, their own heart belonging to the Kingdom.
It takes a lifetime to mature as a individual to become Christ like to a state that God really desires. It’s His grace that allows us the fortitude to fail enough times to come and to finally see it.
I think scripture that was hidden are mostly unhidden now & continues to be unveiled as we grow closer. I would say it’s Spirit lead being that as God unveils events people that are in tune in the spirit they will just get it. You can’t explain this stuff to people that are spiritually blind, only concerned about Friday’s concert & Saturdays hang over. Or too busy w/ life itself, the grind.
Well said about the literalism. Where there is symbolism it’s meant to help us see the literal point being made & to help the disciple to comprehend future events enough to explain it.
CERN is I’m sure will be a tool for the supernatural end time events right after we are up on outa here!
I definitely believe in the unseen realm it’s real, more real then u & me. u ever smell an unclean spirit? or seen one? Don.
Bill,
You might like the Shinar Directive, by Dr. Michael Lake. I only read part of it thus far. I think it is a mixed bag but it is thought provoking. I do think that Mystery religion has ties back to the days of Babel and free Masonry is the modern expression of it. One day this deception will be allowed to take over the world and all that did not love the truth will be deceived.
It is not just going to be the advance of Islam or any other religion. It is going to be supernatural deception with the attempt to make men more than human and the attempt to stop the return of Jesus.
I see many paths now setting the stage for this deception but I still do not see them coming together for another 10 to 15 years.
I do not want to change the subject but my experience visiting the leading candidate Baptist church in my new area Sunday really left me discouraged. The youth put on the service but it was obviously all about look at me.
I can’t believe that rap and group dance is now part of the worship service. Talk about conforming to the world! It is getting that way in most SBC churches with over one hundred members. The more I think of it the more I want to puke.
In retrospective I may have encountered unclean spirits but they did not announce themselves as such. A strange hum like an approaching electrical transformer was associated with something that I encountered a number of time in the flat that I lived in while in Norway back in the 1970’s. One night it even shook the bed. A person did die in that flat. That night I asked help from Jesus and it never came back again. Fact, or an overactive imagination? Who knows.
Not an overactive imagination, no Sir. When u walk into a room and feel a HEAVY presence w/ a cold chill it’s real.
I freaked out a demonic being when he noticed I could see him. That happened once & hasn’t happened since.(5 months ago) It also happened when I was about 12 but it was a different entity and I was petrified, couldn’t even pray. Paste back & forth in front of my bed about 6 times walked away & down the stairs then I got brave & told him “u better leave” it stopped (stairs creaked) started to head back up the stairs so I got up ran thru it I suppose and turned every light on in the house & stayed up. That house was haunted. Could hear conversations in the storage attack, 2 men sitting having tea discussing stuff. used to lay there listening to them.
I use to hear hell & couldn’t sleep when I was small, sounded like waves of people in torment & see it when my eye’s were closed. That lasted about 3 months.
Not long ago as I mentioned I was deeply in prayer laying on my right side I felt something there, I open my eye’s looked to my left I saw this creepy looking demon, he stood up quick backed up & kept backing up out my bedroom door & down the hall until I couldn’t see him.
What he was doing was leaning over me w/ his head very close to my neck area to sense my vibration probably to try to see what he can pick up. What I learned from that is a demon will portray a image & or thought and they study u to see if your taking the bait. But I freaked him out he wasn’t expecting me to see him. I have ask the Lord to allow me to see them again when they are around.
When things start to get more real in the supernatural like ‘seeing’ the games will end pretty quick. For now it’s too superficial so churches are playing patty cake until demons are up In their faces.
That’s what needs to start happening, it needs to get real to get real. Then you will be able to find a real church any day of the week. u hip? It needs to get like ghost busters for real.
Maybe 5 months ago you ran into a burglar or an in-law. When you were a kid the bogie man was on your mind, you lived in a noisy neighborhood and heard some neighbors chatting over tea. Your latest demon on your neck was your neighbors cat. Than again you really could have a chemical imbalance. Everyone has ghost stories. Show me the proof.
I think demonic attacks on Christians are more like being overwhelmed with self defeating thoughts and doubts over the validity of God’s word. I believe it’s easier to see demonic activity in the bigger picture like the general attitudes and policies of modern man.
The only times I felt possibly I was under demonic attack was one day I randomly felt uneasy and had freakish images of strange beings in my head that wouldn’t go away. I had a very real feeling it was demonic.
The other time I was in bed and suddenly felt like there was a huge malevolent being on it’s hands and knees staring down on me.
Who knows what these really were. Imagination perhaps.
Hi Don,
This was generally my knee-jerk reaction to ghost stories too, however, the older I get the less likely I am to simply shrug off the tales. I’m convinced some people are more attuned to the Unseen Realm than others. Me, well I’m about as sensitive to the spirit world as a sack of dirt, and that’s how I like it, thank you very much. My brother Tom on the other hand has always seen and felt things I never could. When we were young I’d pooh-pooh has claims, but he kept seeing and feeling things, and he is a really down-to-earth kinda guy. Years ago he was invited to work on an old ranch down in Arizona. He was alone in the bunkhouse that first night, asleep, when something woke him. There seated at a nearby table were three old cowboys, talking or playing cards or something. He couldn’t hear them and they appeared oblivious to his presence. In the morning the owner of the ranch correctly read the look on Tom’s face, and asked if he’d seen the bunkhouse ghosts. The owner knew about them.
Tom has bought and sold a lot of houses. Once or twice he walked into a house and felt a presence. When he asked the seller who died here, they were shocked that he knew. My mother used to tell similar stories when she was young. I guess “sensitivity” runs in our family, but like I said above, I didn’t inherit any of it, thank goodness. As I’ve grown older, I no longer dismiss out of hand stories about that dimension that lurks just out of our reach. I do, however, scrutinize the character of the person expounding on the “happening”.
I would not put any of this in the same catagory as what Heiser is talking about in The Unseen Realm.
Who really knows how many millions of spirits exist and at what level? Who even knows if some of this has anything to do with what we believe are spirits? Many things can be explained just by auto suggestion. There are certain people that even made a living proving it.
There also are unknowns in natural physics.
On the other hand, there are angels. Do we all have one? Who knows? And Who knows if they have personalities like we do and what they might pull on us? I do not think we should think that everything of the unseen realm is being micromanaged by God or the Devil.
Hello Don,
could you provide your interpretation of John 10: 34-35. If you are interested, WND has a new interview with Michael Heiser on The unseen realm.
http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/the-unseen-realm-with-michael-heiser/?cat_orig=faith
2Kings 6:14
Elisha knew of the Syrian army surrounding him but also saw the hill was FULL OF HORSES AND CHARIOTS OF FIRE ALL AROUND ELISHA (An Unseen Realm) that Elisha’s attendant did not see at first.
2Kings 19:35
That night the angel of the LORD went out to the Assyrian camp and killed 185,000 Assyrian soldiers.
This is enough proof for me of the “Unseen Realm”.
Now, whether anyone in modern times can sense the unseen realm, is always debatable.
Personally, I believe there is validity to some who sense this unseen realm, just my opinion.
I think there is also a lot of Hocus-Pocus media mystical nonsense being sold that is about as real as Barbara Eden being one’s personal genie.
Well Ya’ll just gave me chills and I probably will have to sleep with the light on until I can shake off this feeling.
I’ve already told of my experiences on the former blog so I won’t repeat them in detail. I’ll only say I’ve never seen one but I’ve heard them on many different occasions and felt their presence. It’s unmistakable. I’ve felt what I thought was a physical touch. (Bed shaking is not uncommon.)I had night terrors and couldn’t sleep without a light on for 3 years. I would wake up paralyzed, unable to move. In all it lasted 9 years.
When my nephew was a toddler in his crib he would scream and try to throw himself out of it. His mom would rush in and try to comfort him. One night after rushing into his room she asked, “What’s wrong, what is it?” My nephew pointed to something she couldn’t see and said, “Him.” My sister-in-law was shaking but she looked to where her baby was pointing and said, “I command you to leave in the name of Jesus.” They never had anymore problems.
My own children experienced it in different ways. My daughter especially had some chilling experiences and my little boy wouldn’t go into a room by himself, not even the bathroom during the day. (He’s a former Marine now.)
I don’t doubt the stories. I still have occasional problems but I’ve learned not to fear them. I also command them to leave in Jesus name and if I feel resistance I call on Jesus.
Well Don,
It looks like the latest comments on your blog, including me, have resulted in our own definition of the “Unseen Realm”.
I bet you wanted to keep this on Dr. Heisers Titled “The Unseen Realm”.
Am I correct in assuming you’re ready to throw down the hatchet on our comments ?
God was talking about the Elohim in Psalm 82 and in John 10: 34-35 Jesus was identifying himself as being even greater than they. He was not saying that men are Gods.
The post is really about the book. Maybe I will start a separate post where you all can tell what you believe are experiences with the unseen realm.
Cats? oh don’t get me started on cats lol
I just know it’s real I have plenty of proof for me I admit it all sounds hocus pocus that’s because it’s outside of OUR realm.
But u got to admit your experience was real to u & I believe u because of my own experience. And I totally believe each persons story here.
Thanks for the recommendation of that book I’m going to look into it.
Maranatha
PS. oh yea, u did crack me up w/ the explanations there. I give u that.
This whole discussion reminds me of Mr. Dickens’s explanation for much of what we call ghosts/demons/spirits:
“You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato. There’s more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!”
I just started reading “The Unseen Realm”. I thought it was going to be over my head as well, but surprisingly it’s quite an easy and enjoyable read. I would recommend it. It definitely opens your eyes to a new dimension to the Bible from what we’ve always been taught. I was leary of getting the book, but after Don said he respected Dr. Heiser’s work I went ahead and got the book. I think some people on this sight who have “woken up” in the night thinking they’ve seen spirits may have been having a lucid dream. You can’t tell reality from being asleep when you’re having a lucid dream, they’re that real.
I did not and still may not believe in ghosts but Jesus did not discount their existence in Luke 24:38-39
38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
The older versions use the word spirit instead of ghosts but Jesus spoke as if they existed.
There is absolutely no question about spirits existing. The Bible has much to say about spirits.
As you say Don the Bible has a great deal to say on the subject, and our understanding and control of this spiritual area of our lives is also covered by God’s word.
I will mention an occurrence of an almost physical touch that happened to me many years ago for only one reason. It occurred at a time of great emotional upset and was either caused by that upset or the upset was used as an avenue of attack. Whatever was the cause God’s word gave me immediate ‘victory’.
It is our minds that are most effected by spiritual powers i.e. God’s power to give salvation’s blessings are by his word, and our minds to understand that word.
Doubt and fear and a host of other negatives can affect our minds and our bodies, and isn’t it in these negatives that the Devil attempts to destabilise and defeat us.
However like Doug I no longer dismiss the testimony of sensible people ( I will always dismiss the testimony of certain types however). 🙂
I want people to hold off on making further comments on their personal experiences with the supernatural realm. I am now in the process of writing an article where comments like this will be much more appropriate. I should have it posted by tomorrow morning.
Comments about The Unseen Realm book are still desired.
I finished the 4 part video series and the book UNSEEN REALM.
It wasn’t difficult for me to embrace the Deut:32 worldview. Fascinating and exciting to get out of the traditional rut.
In some cases Heiser was presenting options for possible meanings but there were a few points I particularly looked for.
1. A distinction between National Israel and the Church. He never made that point and I too think he is a believer in Covenant Theology.
2. He also left out a literal thousand year reign. He takes the amillennial view.
It was interesting that Gog might come from the seat of Baal’s authority located in the heights of the north and not necessarily a geographical location but then he went on to present another thought. The antichrist would come from the tribe of Dan, located in Bashan. The way Heiser explained it made sense but I’m not sure what to think about it. (pg. 366)
Neither suggestion is the way we’ve thought about it.
Don, what do you think? Are we still with Russia leading the coalition of nations against Israel?
Hi Caitlin,
From what I know I think you got Heiser’s views correct. I hope he learns to take Eschatology more literally.
He seems to think that Gog and the Antichrist are the same. I think Russia will lead the coalition of nations. I think at that time there will be a great confederacy of nations led by Russia much like there was in the days of the Soviet Union.
There is only one nation that has the military power to lead such an effort as is describe in Ezekiel 38 and 39 within the next 20 years or so and that nation is Russia. Some think the coalition of nations is led by Turkey but Israel could destroy Turkey’s military without God’s help.
Rather than Gog coming from the seat of Baal’s authority at Bashan the Antichrist might indeed come from that region. It is the land given to Dan. Some think the Bible indicates the Antichrist comes from the tribe of Dan and that is also why that tribe is not mentioned in Revelation with the 144,000 Israelite’s that preach the gospel of the coming kingdom to the whole world as a witnesses.
Keep in mind that Judas was an Israelite and he is a foreshadow of the Son of Perdition. As the twelve apostles will rule on 12 thrones ruling over the 12 tribes of Israel there was one person that betrayed Christ and he was replaced by another. There also will be one tribe that will welcome the coming of the Antichrist and it will be replaced by another in preaching the gospel of the coming kingdom to the whole world. It will be Dan.
Even so, the Beast/Antichrist is not Gog. We also cannot assume that he will not be Roman because he comes from that region. I believe the revived Roman Empire will rule over the whole area of the ancient Roman Empire. That would include Syria.
Heiser is amillennial and he discounts any literal Rapture before any tribulation or the future literal fulfillment of the Daniel 70 weeks prophecy. In fact, he discounts many things in Bible prophecy that sound quite literal by suggesting that they may just be metaphors. He tends to think that the Gog Magog war is at the end of the church age and by that he means just before the Devil is cast into the Lake of Fire and we go into the eternal state.
Just because one is an expert in one field of study that does not make them experts in all fields of study. In my Revelation commentary I warn teachers and pastors about just doing some side studies in Bible prophecy and then thinking that they did the work to get Eschatology correct.
I think Heiser knows much about ancient writings but I believe he is over his head when it comes to correctly interpreting Eschatology and other major theologies as well. Teachers will get carried away with themselves. Pretty soon they start thinking they know more than those that have been specializing in certain theologies all of their life. Heiser’s teaching on Eschatology is much like Dr.Thomas Ice trying to teach Michael Heiser about ancient languages. I know its hard for some teachers, but teachers should stay within their area of expertise as much as they can.
Hi Don, I like your answer.
Heiser did seem to be saying that Gog and the antichrist were one and the same. I had thought they were different. He has a video on Daniel’s 70 weeks I hadn’t watched yet. Maybe I don’t need to now. I take a more literal than a metaphorical view.
Heiser has pointed out a lot of other things to be excited about without giving up my eschatology.
When I watched his ‘rapture’ video a couple of weeks ago he explained we are either splitters (pre trib rapture) or harmonizers (post trib rapture). He said he wasn’t giving a position on it but just wanted us to know how we chose our position. I could tell then he was amillennial.
Hi Don,
I really admire your work. I can’t stop reading your articles. However I have some questions which I can’t figure out. I was hoping maybe you can answer them.
Before I started to read your article I was thinking that the Vatican may changed a couple of words in the Bible, maybe they took out some verses and add some to the book. You said we have to take the Bible literally. I believe you. But then please explain if God has foreknowledge why he didn’t know that Adam and Eve will fail. He didn’t know they will eat the apple. Also after their eyes opened they hid among the trees when they heard the Lord is coming and God didn’t even see them. How is this possible? Book of Moses 3/8-12
Also Book of Moses 6/5-6 say when god saw how wicked the world is he regretted he made the humans. So he didn’t know this before either?
Also the story of Job. God didn’t know that if he’s going to fail or not? That’s why they tested him?
I hope you can help me understand these parts. Thank you so much!
Hi Edina,
You’re off topic on this post so read my comment policy. Since you’re new here I will answer this time.
God knows everything that will happen. He knew that Adam would sin and fall. That is why Jesus was appointed to save mankind before the foundations of the world.
The Bible does not say that God did not see Adam and Eve hiding. They did lose their fellowship with Him when they sinned. They hid from God because they lost their glory.
God gave angels and humans freewill. Mankind was to to have faith in God and wait for the kinsman redeemer but the human race became corrupted by fallen angels. (Women had offspring with Angels.) All those corrupted by the Angels could no longer be saved by the kinsman redeemer of the Adamic race. God chose to cut them off and start over again with a line of Humans that had not yet been corrupted. That was Noah and sons. God knew it would happen, but knowing something and preventing free will in His created beings is two different things.
The Catholics do not change words in their Bible. They just use St. Jerome’s translation which is translated into Latin from a manuscript that might have some corruption. Even so, no major points of doctrine differ. The Catholics do add additional books to the Canon and that is a problem. The greater problem is that Catholics put church tradition on the same level as scripture and make what the Popes decree infallible.
I am also a pre-millenial dispensationalist that loves Heiser’s material. He has a podcast episode where he explains the Day of the Lord and a future Anti-Christ as a real being coming in the future. That gave me some hope for his potential dispensational leanings?
Did you ever come across James F. Matheny’s books on Daniel? A unique perspective on Hebrew root translation to arrive at a little different time line for the 70th Week. Also, a good analysis of the original language of the Byzantine/Stephanus text arriving at three letters symbolizing the Words for Christ in Greek, Hebrew, and Latin in Rev. 13:18 (not a number of 666).
Hi Mark W,
There are a lot of views out there. I was not aware of James Matheny. And I am not inclined to read authors that claim thier book was not accepted because all the experts are wrong and they are right. I also am not going to pay hundreds of dollars for the book.
Don, I have found the “Unseen Realm” to be fascinating and enlightening. I am thoroughly enjoying it. Today, spoke of the “Rider of the clouds” and gave great detail and showed many of the locations in the bible where this is spoken of. It is somewhat like a giant jig-saw puzzle that brings hidden things into more focus. I am listening to the audio version and I must say that the reader is very good. I highly recommend it!