Some Christians in the west are becoming increasingly frustrated because they cannot find suitable Christian fellowship. I purposely did not say they cannot find a good church because most churches have become part of the problem and not the solution. Western churches do not necessarily contain born from above believers.
Today, almost all large churches that once identified as evangelicals now use the market driven seeker sensitive model to have church. The model was founded on the teaching of Peter Drucker. As an educator, Drucker developed the modern corporate model. Disciples of Drucker such as Rick Warren and Bill Hybells used this corporate model in the churches that they founded. Through media, associations and leadership conferences they spread the corporate model to churches all over the world.
Peter Drucker came to believe that the mega church model was the best way to socially organize the world. Drucker was not a Christian, so his faith in the mega church model had nothing to do with bringing the gospel of Christ to the world. The Drucker corporate church model was just a tool for community organizing and pushing worldly social justice agendas. Rick Warren is now attempting to accomplish that globally through his pluralist P.E.A.C.E. plan.
The modern seeker sensitive model for the Church is hardly biblical. The Church is the body of Christ. It is believers. Church buildings were to be places where believers assembled together to minister to each other using God-given spiritual gifts.
The corporate model churches claims success by their numbers. They claim that if they attract large numbers some will eventually hear the gospel of salvation and believe. Actually, the gospel and the Holy Spirit draws people to salvation, not seeker entertainment shows. They do not present the gospel at their services anyways. Their churches are increasing being filled with community minded people who were never saved. Is that Christian fellowship and worship?
Using the corporate model, a CEO pastor runs the church and Sunday is show time for the sheep and unbelievers. In contrast, the Bible teaches that a plurality of elders and deacons are to lead the Church. Christians are to be meeting together to use their spiritual gifts to exalt God and minister to each other.
The Bible gives Psalms as examples of pleasing worship music. The seeker church model gives us rock bands like Hillsong promoting their own suggestive agenda. It is hard to believe that many churches play their stuff and pay them royalties. I was considering a couple of medium-sized churches recently, but when I saw that many of their songs had Hillsong copyrights I knew the pastor was clueless.
Many of these large churches are now promoting mysticism and false teachings. Heretical media like Jesus Calling, The Shack, and Heaven Can Wait are promoted by church leaders who cannot properly discern scripture. Many of these also promote false teachers who claims to hear directly from God.
The evangelical movement was based on the Bible. The seeker churches destroyed this movement even though they still call themselves evangelicals. Many of these postmodern “Christians” have no problem uniting with those in Catholicism, Mormonism or in Islam because they claim that we all have the same God. By making this claim, they deny the true faith.
Western evangelicals now look more like the church of Oprah then they do the Church of Jesus Christ. Oprah claims to be a Christian, but she is a universalist who also believes in pagan spiritualism. By the way, there is a good chance that Oprah will run and be elected president in 2020. Think about it, a progressive black woman billionaire media star with elitist globalist connections who is promoted by many calling themselves Christians. Oprah can’t lose.
Revelation 17 pictures Christendom in harlotry dominating the world. Oprah would be a fitting representation for the universal world church Harlot. She will use her all-knowing attitude that speaks for God to marginalize and persecute Christian fundamentalists. You can be sure that many people in American churches will fall all over themselves promoting Oprah for President. Pass the barf bags please.
The Pentecostals have taken a different path to the same end. Tens of millions of Pentecostal people either go to Word of Faith churches or Word of Faith doctrines have infiltrated their churches. Almost all Christian TV networks are dominated by such apostates. Believing in the supernatural and positive confession does not make one a Christian. Word of Faith doctrine is heretical. Among other things, they believe that they are gods who can speak realities into existence
The Pentecostal signs and wonders movement have made outlandish claims for decades through their false prophets and teachers. They are always proven wrong, but that truth does not phase the people who want to believe that their human idols are anointed people of God. They have religious beliefs much like the pagans, but they Christianize it by using Christian jargon. The leaders of the signs and wonders movement are great bags of wind.
Smaller churches in America are not on very solid ground either. Many of them are just playing follow the leader. They go to a building that they call the church. It has four or five songs, a collection, and a sermon by someone they call the pastor. Those that observe this Sunday ritual are called the faithful. Once you walk out the doors there is no conversation with anyone about God or about spiritual things. Even in their church basements on game night not a spiritual word is spoken. Where is this church model in the New Testament?
The Bible belt is full of small churches containing people raised in Christianity. They keep the Sunday ritual faithfully. Yet, where is their knowledge and understanding of the scriptures? Where is the body ministry? Many walk out the doors of the church building and walk in the doors of nearby Masonic Blue Lodge. Being in a denomination and going to church on Sunday does not make one a Christian. You won’t find much deep Christian thinking in the Bible belt. They know Christian jargon and they know the Sunday traditions, but they have little understanding of the scripture or spiritual things. The best church fellowships are not found in the Bible belt. They are in the more unchurched areas of the United States.
Some will say the true church model is home fellowships or small groups. Yes, but in the pseudo Christian West you have to be careful meeting in homes and small groups as well. Who is running it? What theology is being taught? Many cults get started in home groups. For example, Hebrew Roots is spreading in home groups today. The roots theology teaches people to live under the law and many of them claim salvation comes by obedience. It is legalism. Small groups can be dangerous when the people attending cannot properly discern the scriptures.
I about fell off my chair when I read a recent article by Joseph Farah of WND questioning if Johnathan Cahn’s teaching brought about the repentance of American Christians and the Trump reprieve? Repentance does not come through teachers using fabrications and misapplication of the scriptures. There is no evidence for any Christian revival in the United States. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that those saying they are Christians are conforming to the world.
Having said that, there indeed is an intense war going on between the people of God and the people of Satan. The people of Satan given over to a reprobate mind hate God, hate what God said and hate God’s people. The demonic globalist socialists are at war against God and the sons of liberty and light. Don’t be deceived, this struggle for control of the world actually does play out in world politics. The adopted sons of God on earth are to stand up for the truth. Even so, this ongoing war between good and evil is not won through any repenting of the saved. God is in control. The battle for control of the earth is the Lord’s. He will defeat Satan in His own timing.
Those with knowledge of the truth should not be too hard on those attending westernized church services. For the most part, those identifying with Christianity are not the enemies of Jesus Christ. Satan is fighting against all identifying with Christianity. Satan really does not know who in Christendom are saved. He will be very successful with his seduction of Christianity until the end. The monotheistic beliefs of pseudo Christianity and Islam is not Mystery Babylon. Babylon is polytheistic. Israel committed spiritual adultery with the polytheistic beliefs of the Canaanites and was identified as a Harlot. Many in Christendom will do likewise. Just as Israel is refined through the tribulation so will many identifying with Christianity. The burning of the Harlot will come through polytheism. It will come from new age, eastern religions and the kings of the earth.
If you are wondering how we get to a polytheist universal religion by the 2030’s, you might think about the great deception that will come. There will be great beings coming from out of the abyss to accomplish the deception. They will persecute all that will not worship the false Christ of their new age kingdom. The Vatican at first will help bring in the universal pseudo Christian monotheistic religion that is identified as the Harlot, but the Pope will flip and promote the false Messiah as a return of Christ.
We must look to the past to see the future. Jesus tells us that what happened before the flood will happen again. Before the flood the Nephilim brought great violence on the earth. When the abyss is opened demonic beings will exist on earth again and do much the same thing. What happened in Nazi Germany with their embrace of paganism and their demonic agenda for a thousand-year reign will occur again on a global scale. Even the elect would be deceived if God allowed that to be possible. In the end times, fallen angels with doctrines of demons will lead an out war against all those daring to trust in the God of Heaven.
The universal Harlot of Revelation 17 already is on the throne in most of Christendom. She appears to be a universalist like Oprah. She will even persecute fundamental Christians and she will continue with her harlotry until the abyss is opened. After that, she in turn will be destroyed by the ten rulers that give their power to the Beast. The fact that we can see the harlot rising now means the end is near.
Because of the ongoing apostasy and the rise of the Harlot in these last days, there is no easy answer for Christians looking for Christian fellowship within the western churches of Christendom. When persecution comes, as I am sure it must, believers in the west will be forced into a more biblical church model.
The universal Harlot of Revelation 17 already is on the throne in most of Christendom. She appears to be not a universalist like Oprah. She will even persecute fundamental Christians and she will continue with her harlotry until the abyss is opened.
Don, will you further explain this concept?
Thanks
Well I guess you hit the fundamental reason why evil is flourishing in our country. The church is a shadow of its former self with little true believers left. I attended a large church awhile back and was amazed how it was really just a a big social convention. They did not have ONE bible study going during the week. Thousands of people and not a single bible study. I was shocked.
Home bible studies may be the way to go. The amazing ability of scripture is that it can be as simple or complex as you want it to be.
I disagree that Oprah has a good chance of winning even if she decided to run. She has absolutely no message. The Democrat party is in shambles and they refuse to give up their radical agenda. Obama was exceptionally slick and I doubt they will have anyone as charismatic as him running in 2020. I could be wrong though. I usually underestimate how stupid people are.
There has also been a huge ad campaign by Catholic charities in my area to donate to Muslim immigrants. I literally fill with rage and want to torch these billboards every time I see one. Organizations like this are so greedy that they don’t care if they destroy nations, as long as they get rich off the donations. How churches can join the socialist globalist agenda is beyond me.
Great article Don, I’m surprised by your Oprah comments because I was talking with an elder at my church group and I told him, wouldn’t it be something if Oprah ended up being the false witness, She seems to fit the mold. He laughed but then thought, hmm! He calls me the seed planter.
I go to a small church group of 8 at the present, and most have been bible believing Christians for over 40 years, very knowledgeable.
Believe me when I say, If something is said that is not biblical, there are 7 Berean’s with microscopes and bibles listening. My point is, I feel blessed mightily to have found this small group. I just wanted to mention there are some good ones, but you really need to know what scripture says about church attendance and why, which you stated perfectly, then you can judge if this is the group you should join. I know you didn’t say all were bad and I agree they are slippery.
I urge everyone to study their bibles so they know first hand what God expects of them.
I think it is way too important of a subject to leave up to someone else’s opinion, the dark ages come to mind. The Bible is self explanatory if you learn it, in almost every case if something symbolic is said, just keep reading because the explanation is coming. People tend to pick and choose verse’s then take them out of context, to fit there own agenda.
I took a guitar course at a mega church once and no one could understand my disdain at the fountains inside the building. Go figure.
I thank the Lord He spared me from prosperity seeker church’s
God has already given everyone of us the greatest gift that could possibly be given, and after that He still showers us with more gifts.
I have mentioned before in the comments and I find it worth repeating, that I believe it was during your studies on Revelation a few years ago, That the Lord really came to me and opened my eyes.
I supposed I finally got serious and it happened when I put serious effort into your study of His word.
Jesus plus nothing is a saying I can agree with. Thank you for your efforts. Larry
Hi JA,
I took the not out a couple of hours ago. it should make sense now.
Most of the bible studies I’ve been to are useless. It’s more of a “What does this mean to you” rather than “What does God mean by this.” That’s why I still watch Michael Heiser videos for my bible study. I don’t embrace everything he says but the bible unfiltered is amazing. I don’t discount what I learn from Don Koenig either.
“Minister to one another.” I understand the words but not the practical application. When church people say “How are you?” they don’t really want to know. If you tell them how you are they say “I’ll pray for you” as they walk away.
So my Christian fellowship is with my youngest son. He works in the Alaska fishing industry and lives in Las Vegas, Nv. off season so we don’t get to talk often but it’s very inspiring when we do. It makes up for a dozen shallow conversations from others.
I’m pretty much convinced that the days of Noah will be another time of DNA corruption (among other things) and the mark of the beast will be trans humanism. I’ve heard about the return of the Titans but I’m still thinking on that one.
No comment on a president Oprah; I just had dinner.
Don, I sort of question this sentence “Satan really does not know who in Christendom are saved”. I do believe that he can recognize the Holy Spirit in those are saved. It is all too often very hard for humans to tell the difference though and prayer for discernment and study of the Bible is needed when listening to TV teachers. They will reveal themselves.
Otherwise, another article that I wish was not as true as it is. You are right about Oprah, should she choose to be president, she would win. These so called “Christian” churches only seem to care about agenda and not about Christ teaching. I cannot go to church so I watch some of the TV preachers, but one must be very careful here. About 9 years ago, I used to watch on occasion, a local (Dallas) mega church pastor. When Obama received the Democrat nomination he was on TV talking about how he cried (tears of joy) to see a black man nominated. He did not note that Obama was probably Muslim, that he attended Wright’s church, or that he pushed abortion. He only cared about his skin color. Total lack of concern for Christ’s message only for his misguided agenda. Note; I believe as my mother taught me as a child, that God does not judge by skin color so what would give me the right to do so (I am also about 3/8 American Indian).
I think most American Christians cried because our choice, that election, was McCain and Obama, neither of which seemed to really endorse any Christian values.
Hi Phil,
Yeah, Satan and his forces can know who are the Lord’s when they confront a Christian directly and meet spiritual resistance. Yet, in Christendom in general Satan and his forces do not have a clue who identifying with Christianity is saved or not. Satan is not all knowing and is not everywhere. For that reason, I think He will seek to destroy Christendom and her Harlot as a whole, just like he does with those identifying as Jews.
Caitlin and others , First of I agree with just about everything Don Koenig says, once in awhile I have a different perspective , but I can easily be wrong . Secondly , I respect this is Mr. Koenig’s website and he has the right to reject or delete any comments I post and he owes me no explanation if he does. There seems to be difficulty for some who comment here about finding a good church or bible study. I recommend on the internet Ben Hayden at http://www.changedlives.org and also Jon Courson at http://www.joncourson.com . You can also receive FREE CD’S and DVD’S from Firefighters For Christ . If you e-mail them at order@firefighters.org and ask for a media catalog they will send you a catalog of available material, they will send you the materials you request FREE and they never ask for money . They have some great Bible study material. There was a time when I would have laughed if someone said Oprah would run for President ,,but these are strange times so maybe it could happen. Orpah has no clue who Jesus is , I heard her talk about God being some sort of cosmic force. As Don points out , many churches have become anything but a church , people go there for entertainment. I believe we are seeing more and more The Church of Laodicea that Jesus says he will spew out of His mouth . He warns them to repent. We need to be vigilant and check everything we hear against what God’s Word says. Sadly , many people who regularly attend church never open the Bible , they automatically accept as truth whatever the pastor or preacher says. God wants permanent custody , not just weekend visitation for an hour or two. He has to be part of our daily lives if we take Him seriously, and He expects us to do that .
I think the problem is that we have a lot of pastors who are not saved. Corinthians 2:14 Says the bible can only be discerned by the spirit. There is for sure a lot I do not understand, but I do try to find the answer comparing scripture with scripture. I decided a long time ago that I could not trust anyone with so important a book and that I better see what it said for myself.
There are a few good churches, but they are few and far between. Since men are imperfect we are not going to find a perfect church, but we can not go along with heresy either.
As far as music goes, the old hymns had a lot of truth in them written by men who knew the Lord. I do believe God has blessed this nation greatly, but we can not go on living like there is no God.
The world is heating up with more and more earthquakes, volcanos erupting all over the world, tornados in places that usually do not have them, heavy floods, and generally more and more devastation which I believe will get worse and worse as the rapture of the true church approaches.
The world is in turmoil and no man is going to be able to fix it. Men have called good evil and evil good, and God is not going to put up with it forever. He never has before. He does repent and change His mind like He did with Nineveh, but I just do not see revival coming any time soon.
Amazingly I do believe people are still getting saved here and there. Not in large numbers, but there are some good places on internet, but also many false teachers. Bibleline ministries in Florida is a good site. They preach the gospel at every message which you rarely hear in most churches.
Don,
One of the last churches that I attended in my area had a popular hard rock song being played at the beginning of service. The words of the song seemed to be prayerful in a sense, but no mention of God or Jesus. It almost seemed like an audition for the band.
The last straw for me with that particular church was when a senior pastor there moved because he was hired by Saddleback Church. I had no idea that this church I was going to had any relation to Warren.
I do believe there are many saved people at this church, which has satellite campuses all over SC, but the message always seemed to be one of a “how to get through life’s struggles” type of sermon. There were messages on the cross, but it always seemed to get watered down at times. Never any end times messages that I can remember. Come to think of it, the last time I heard an end times message in church was probably the 1990’s. I have considered going back to the Baptist church. There is a Calvary church in my area that I may try first though.
I still believe that the polytheistic Universalist religion will have a huge dose of ET after said “ET’s” “reveal” themselves to the we world. Virtually every Sci-fi television show or movie in the past 40 years or so have our alleged space brothers come down to tell us every other religious figure EXCEPT Jesus are all part of the same ideology, Jesus was not our Saviour, Jesus was a nut, a liar, etc. Always, everyone else is o.k. except Jesus. I find it interesting that seems to be the consensus of the world, including what passes for Christianity right now. Klatuu shouldn’t have any problem at all once he and Gort land in Washington soon. O.K., repeat after me…”Gort,Klatuu, Varada, Nicto”. I give you 10 to 1 odds that phrase, or something like it, will be said more than “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit”. Scary times indeed.
Hi Don,
Good article and a lot of great comments I concur w/ many points made here.
It comes down to the individual’s mind set on what’s important to them being a part of this world w/ partying on day’s off then slip in church on Sunday to suffice. It seems that most people just do enough to please them self’s according to the tradition’s they were brought up with.
A lot of them are just that Sheep “give me a good sitcom in the evening” which 99% of them make fun of God and people who follow God. I don’t watch sitcoms there too dumb, except for Seinfeld even though they too were sacrilegious but there classic.
But hey, the righteous few will be rewarded so concentrate on what’s right, make sure your thinking the right way pray for those that are misguided and keep going.
Hi Don, it seems to me that what we are seeing in the church today can be comparable to when Christianity became the official religion of Rome. Once it was the “state religion”, whether you believed or not was irrelevant as far as going to church. Church’ had to allow people in whether they believed or not, setting the stage for watered down beliefs and heresy. I wonder if this comparison, from your perspective, holds water. Comparing the the church period following Christianity becoming the “state religion”, to what are seeing today, with so much acceptance of heretical beliefs within the church.
Just a thought.
Rod in Oregon
Hi Rod,
The Harlot of Revelation 17 is state religion once again. I do not think people in the state religion of Rome could believe anything they wanted. They had to hold to the dogma of Rome or they were persecuted. It will be the same in the end.
That sure makes sense! Thanks. The stage is sure being set up…
Rod
Hi Phil, instead of limiting yourself to the TV, as someone else mentioned, there are many sermons available weekly, on the internet. I think the chances of finding more Biblical content online are much better.
Now, someone, Steve, mentioned that he would be looking into a Calvery and Baptist churches in his area to visit, and evaluate. Seems there are still some good people in the SBC, judging by this two part article at the
SBC Today website back on the 14th and 15th of March. So, good hunting Steve.
http://sbctoday.wpengine.com/the-results-of-resisting-god-part-one-2/
http://sbctoday.wpengine.com/the-results-of-resisting-god-part-two-2/
These articles talk about the same issues Don regularly brings up here, and it was encouraging to find that some recognize the perils confronting us these days.
Hi David L,
There are many good teachings on Youtube. These are easily found if your know the teachers name. One teaching then leads to another.
How are u today Don,
I do attend a Catholic service bc my wife is Catholic we agree to disagree on doctrine, I mostly go to support her so she doesn’t have be by herself.
(I used to laugh thru the service, snicker and stuff but that was back when I was a heathen I was completely not following God back then, I had to fall which I did.) (I would challenge the priest bc I still knew error when I heard it even though I was seriously in sin)
This past Sunday they had a read thru of the crucifixion when they came to the two criminals it said both thief’s ridiculed Jesus no mention at all !! … about the thief that stuck up for Christ and ask Him to remember him in paradise then Jesus said today you will be in paradise w/ Me.
41 “And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” 43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”
I’m asking this Sunday coming up why does that little booklet leave this critical part out? To see what he says.
I’m thinking it’s bc this particular event fly’s in the face of purgatory or some reason like that? Why would they leave that out Don?
Also it gives us assurance that when we die we are present w/ the Lord.
Thanks
Hi Bill,
Catholics leave out a lot of things said in scripture and they also add a lot of things to scripture. That is because they have a different gospel.
A Christian wife should be attending the Church that you attend. But, if you want to be a Catholic you have to give up any claims of having Christian salvation.
No I am not Catholic and I don’t want to be one I know too much truth to be a Catholic. But the Word of God will not return empty I have corrected error every time I caught it and I listen carefully.
I was just wondering what would be the specific reason for leaving that out the best I can think of is that it’s counter purgatory. They do have their own gospel though that sums it up. But it’s still in the “Catholic” Bible I looked.
I agree w/ you we need to go a Christian Church.
When I stayed home various times the wife would come back from church I would ask “how’s church what was it about?” sometimes she’s desponded bc she now knows truth from fiction, once she said.. “they talked about confessions” said it in a disappointing way.. I would ask her.. what does scripture say about that? (her)
“I know “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” the way I get her to study scripture is have her help me in memorizing it so it’s in her gut so when she hears stuff like come to confessionals she knows a Priest cant confess our sins Hebrews 10:11-12 which she knows by heart now 😉
See, like a fox. I go into the hen house & drop truths sometimes playing dumb. Why & how come? stuff to make someone think.
Here’s one.. someone says “see u next week” I say “I hope not” lol then I have a opening to explain what I mean, tell them about the rapture.
I go.. u don’t know about meeting Jesus in the air? To be caught up. Ya the signs are all around us. Alright see u next week, maybe?
I have fun dropping little bits of truth on these poor sheep I can see their minds working, everyone likes me their always coming up to talk w/ me on my way out, their good people they just don’t know. Still surprises me how much people don’t know. its sad.
I just ran something quick across this one guy bc he asked me if I was baptized as a baby. I said I don’t remember I was too young but I did later when I knew what it meant, then I asked him.. why wasn’t Jesus or John the Baptist baptized as a baby? I wanted to be like them. 🙂 I said.
I should of asked him what does the Bible say about being baptized? I hope someone ask me again.
Bill,
You might focus on first getting your wife saved. No, don’t tell me that you know she is saved when she goes to a Catholic Church.
As I said, a Christian wife should be going to the Church that her husband attends. Someone does not become a Christian by knowing scripture. One becomes a Christian by hearing, and believing the gospel of salvation. If your wife believes the good news of salvation through Christ then why does she go to a heretical church that teaches that you cannot know if you are saved by Christ? It seems to me that she thinks she also has to keep Roman Catholic lies to attain heaven. Those that trust in the Roman false gospel of salvation will attain hell.
Well I cant believe EVERY Catholic is going straight into hell. No one can see into a persons heart and make that judgment.
I am sometimes a little surprised when I hear the Priest give his sermon bc I do have preconceive notions about what the Catholic Church teaches from what I read & hear but our Priest stands up there telling the congregation that Jesus is the only way to salvation and no other way, of course making the rest of the Gospel points.. of death burial resurrection.
I never actually hear him say Marry is the way to Jesus sometimes I have to look around to see if I’m in a Catholic Church, bc I look for arguments every time and I have approached him about something he said to counter him … “well I can’t find what u said in my Bible can u help me out”. I know I’m the only one that challenges him & he knows I will. Sometime I see him looking at me to see if I’m shaking my head or nodding and when I think about a error I heard I sit there thinking about it shaking my head getting madder and madder or just stewing.
My wife says “your not picking a fight w/ the Priest again!” lol
But a person that loves the Lord and God knows if that person makes Him Lord in his or her life..
…well I’m just going to say it’s in Gods hand not mine. If I judge who’s going to hell or heaven then I’m bring God down.
and I know that knowing a scripture or two isn’t what saves a person my point my friend was to make sure my dear wife knows truth from fiction, what scripture actually says so she can on her own recognize error for herself. I think u missed my point.
This I know God answers my specific prayers in all kinds of matters. It’s weird bc my wife will say “Bill has a direct line w/ God I’ll get him to pray for that thing” or what ever it is. They see it that way bc every person is at their own level of understanding or discernment some very mundane I admit. Lets face it, sheep. They’ll call & ask me to pray for a matter then it happens for them, fast or eventually.
My wife’s not going to hell bottom line take that to the bank. Here, my wife just told me stop talking about my trading she’s praying as she walks.. not the rosary she talks to Him.
I understand what u are saying too don’t get me wrong. Godspeed fella.
Since you know everything about what these priests believe why ask me about it?
The fact is that nobody is saved through Roman Catholicism because they do not give the gospel of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus alone. They take things away from the gospel like the Lord’s atonement for all sin. They add the belief that grace comes through the sacraments, paying for your own sins to escape purgatory and hell and through earning merits and even giving money to the church to buy your way out.
In ten thousand ways Roman Catholicism it is an Antichrist religion but you have no problem with your wife belonging to this Antichrist system and you even take part in in yourself?
You do not decide who is going to hell. People have to come in through the door to salvation given. You can take that to the bank. You can say much the same thing if you attended any heretical Christian cult. They will use Christian jargon. They do not stand up in public and flaunt their heresy. They give you that later. They claim Jesus, but he is not the Jesus taught in the scripture
Each christian might be at their own level of understanding, but in a Catholic church you are not even among true Christians. Since you do not have the discernment to even see that, I have to wonder about the foundation for your own faith.
I went to Catholics churches for 20 years and had Catholic education. In all that time they did not teach the true path to salvation. They taught that you had to do things to merit salvation.
You better start taking this stuff seriously instead of thinking you can play “catch ya” with the cult priest and his followers. The blind are leading the blind. You could lay out all correct biblical doctrine to these people until your blue in the face and they will just keep on practicing their antichrist religion. There are books out there that explain the differences between Roman Catholicism and Christianity. I suggest you study to show yourself approved instead of being so flippant over spiritual life and death issues.
Morning Don,
I know your correcting and admonishing as you should as the spiritual leader of this blog so thank you for your patience w/ me. I will definitely think & pray on all what you said.
I’m not without fault I’m sure I need correcting at times in my thinking regardless of my intentions. My brother & his wife that got saved recently we went to his baptism a month ago that’s a church I would like to go to it was strange to my wife it didn’t have “prayer readings” and people waved their hands singing, I got into it I loved it God was in that place. It was worship night.
I googled admonishing and got this website I think it’s fitting.
http://www.thebiblewayonline.com/Active/OneAnother-Admonish.html
Bill,
You are a stand up guy. Don is correct in what he is telling you and you should be commended for you last comment. I will pray for you and your wife.
Hi Teresa,
Thank you for your kind words they are an encouragement to me. And your prayers in this situation.
This is a good community of believers supporting one another, Don’s got a good thing here.
Blessings to all in Christ.
“The fact is that nobody is saved through Roman Catholicism because they do not give the gospel of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus alone.”
Very interesting webpage you’ve got here, good stuff. Don, I’m curious for you to delve into this a bit more. Folks are saved in their faith in Jesus Christ… period. Whether one chooses to do additional unnecessary works (like worry over certain meats, celebrate sabbaths, new moons or feasts etc…) does not seem biblical to assert that this would somehow nullify Christ’s salvation for someone who believes HE as the son of God, the only door to the Father, completed the law and died for our sins.
Accordingly, while many folks in various denominations or even Christian “cults”, if they believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God as their savior… that alone is sufficient. Catholics, Jehovah’s witnesses, Mormons, etc… while they have different or in some cases extra understanding of scripture – if they believe in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, foreshadowed in the Old Testament and taught from the gospel of the New Testament… why would they Not have salvation?
Perhaps Jehovah’s Witnesses is easiest to focus on. They do not believe in the Triune God, but profess that Jesus Christ is the son of God, the Father and study the New Testament. If your assertion is that the finer scriptural details have to be understood to merit salvation in Christ, as opposed to just the basic understanding of the gospel – that Jesus the son of God died for our sins and through him we gain eternal life, I’d be curious to hear more.
Thanks!
People have to Believe in the Jesus revealed by the scriptures. Catholics and Cults have a different Jesus with a different way to be saved, I have written about this a number of times. Use search box on home page. Works theolgy will not save anyone.
The Jesus revealed by the scriptures, to what degree though? I suppose that is the question I’m putting forward for discussion. Does a “Catholic” who truly believes in their heart that Jesus Christ the son of God died for their sins but studies no more, not qualify because they haven’t studied the entire New Testament? Or is their simple faith in the basic heard gospel of Jesus alone sufficient?
We indeed are not saved through works (though faith without works is dead), so if a person who has Christ but by conscience (Colossians 2) decides not to eat pork, or decides to sit home on on the sabbath as a matter of their own conscience- is it your position that they forfeit salvation because they do more?
If one has Christ and does not choose sin… why would extra “works” disqualify such a person’s salvation? We know the Apostles kept sabbaths and observed the Levitical Feasts, though Paul taught it was not necessary. Scripturally, I think it’s likely to see many believers of Christ from many walks at the wedding feast. I was just curious for your detailed thoughts, given the blanket comment on Catholicism. Thanks again!
David, you obviously are not aware of the communications problems that I am having this week. Check my latest post. Maybe another commentators can fill you in, or explain to you the issues that you are rasimg. Until problems are resolved I can’t be making long replies and may not even be able to reply at all,
Hi David G,
Here is a link from Search on Dons website home page, it’s actually near the bottom of the page. But it gives pages and pages of articles mentioning Catholic, works.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Catholic%2C+works+&sitesearch=www.thepropheticyears.com#spf=1
But, I will try and help you out later tomorrow, or actually today that is.
David G,
Here is something that I think goes a long way towards answering your questions. Although the subjects are slightly different, the overall points made I think can give you some insight.
https://www.gty.org/library/articles/A149/evangelicals-and-catholics-together
Don: Sorry to hear about your flooding issue. To be clear, I expected no timely response to my post; I understood the topic was nearly 60 days old already. From reading on your site, you folks seemed as though you value scripture and its application – so I figured my question might evoke a decent scripturally referenced discussion and took a shot. I hope you’re high and dry.
David L.: That GTY article was good reading – thank you for posting it for me. Like the author, I do not dispute that there are irreconcilable differences between Protestant and Catholic theology, and the two will likely require Christ’s arrival to hash out the differences. The Catholics have a lot of stuff absolutely wrong; but do they have enough right (Jesus Christ) to have salvation?
My point (also covered by that article’s author) is that the fundamental common belief in points covered in the Apostles Creed, is what is required for the soul’s salvation. If you have faith in Jesus Christ of Nazareth (and repent from sin), you are in. If you have faith And works, where does it say that it nullifies the faith? This is my point about the original Apostles still doing works involving meats and holy days; while unnecessary for salvation – it did not strip them of Christ’s grace.
Do the Catholics and Jehovah’s witnesses have it ALL right? I certainly think not. But, do they believe in Jesus Christ of the New Testament, Yeshua, God’s only begotten son? Like us they are using the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; so to me it seems clear that they squeak past on criteria, even if flawed in other areas.
Good stuff, thanks for the interaction guys!
I can’t say much on a dying cell phone. The real issue is are they trusting in Jesus for their salvation’s when they believe they are saved through their own works and unless their good works out weigh their bad they think they will not be saved. On that basis for salvation they will not make it.
My dad use to always say we will be surprised on who’s up there and who’s not.
I just heard this joke from Brother Dave Lombardi (I think it was him, the joke)
https://trinitybrotherdave.org/WhoWeAre.html#Beliefs
This guy passed away was sent to heaven & was having a tour and a nice size group, a denomination was over there then another denomination was right over there then they walk a little further and the angel told him to “shhh” be real quiet that group over there they think their the only one’s up here.
Here’s something to see..
http://woodtv.com/2017/04/14/faith-in-the-fall-the-story-of-seth-alfaro/
This family had a miracle w/ their son’s fall and how God brought him back they are Catholic which is obvious as u watch this news story but regardless what they have wrong and right God was with them.
One lady text “we come to Jesus thru Mary” which is totally wrong but it didn’t stop God from doing what He did w/ this group of people.
Aside from discussion my prayers are w/ you & your wife Don.