I hope you do realize that just changing the President in this country is not going to change the direction of this country for the better in any significant way. Political leaders of democratic republics pretty much reflects the inclination of the people that they represent. The latest presidents that we elected in America are just the symptom of the spiritual darkness that is engulfing most of the nation.
There has been increasing spiritual darkness in America for quite some time; this darkness can also be called the spirit of antichrist. I am not saying that the majority in this country now embrace the spirit of antichrist but this spirit of darkness is definitely taking over our land.
America is being dominated by Satanic black lights that are shining, humanism, Marxism, multiculturalism, revisionism, relativism, evolutionism, religious pluralism, dominionism, idealism, collectivism, radical environmentalism, spiritualism, Islam, political correctness, tolerance, rebellion, greed, covetousness, laziness, class warfare, etc.
Even the spiritual lights of God in this nation are often being extinguished because they allow themselves to become draped in the black garments of neo-Gnostic mysticism, lack of Biblical knowledge, Christian reconstructionism, collective global transformation and the need to be politically correct.
The spirit of antichrist has taken over government, public education, most media, most large corporations, and most religions including quite a bit of our institutions that call themselves Christian. Through these conveyers of black light the people of this nation are constantly being bombarded with antichrist doctrine.
Antichrist doctrine has become the politically correct norm and those that oppose this spirit of darkness in public are marginalized and ostracized and they risk losing job, church, friends and even their freedom. If that is not yet true where you are now, you can be sure it will increasingly be true in the future.
The humanistic postmodern “enlightened age” they claim, just shows us that the spirit of darkness is not being hindered much in America. How much true Christians in America can do to change a nation that loves darkness is open to debate but there are no examples of any change toward God, without a revival coming via the Holy Spirit.
That could happen, but it will have to start by a move of the Spirit. Even so, will the Holy Spirit continually strive with people that were told the truth over and over again but deliberately reject Him for the spirit of antichrist?
Some quoting 2 Ch 2:14 think fasting and prayer by Christians will move God to heal our land but they are wrong. In spite of the Christian hype you hear on TV and from those into Charismatic mysticism, God is not talking to Christians in 2 Ch 2:14. God is actually reminding Israel of her covenant of blessings and curses with Him under the Mosaic Law.
Israel was living under a curse because of their digressions from the Law and God in Second Chronicles was telling Israel how they can get back under His blessings. The whole nation of Israel had to humble themselves and pray and then God would hear and heal their land. The land was the land of Israel and national repentance of the people of Israel was required.
The majority that live in America are not God’s people. The true Christians in this nation do not get cursed. This nation is not even our home (more on 2 Ch 2:14 if you’re still not convinced).
Our prayers do not save unbelievers either; God does. Mormons believe their own actions can even save dead unbelievers. That is not Christian doctrine. God never forces Himself on those that have rejected Him. People are converted to Christ only when they hear and believe and receive. Only those the Father created for His Son will hear, believe and receive. They can only hear if the Holy Spirit draws them. It is none of our doing.
Jesus in Mt 9:38 and Luke 10:3 told us to pray to the Lord that He sends forth laborers into His harvest. The passage implies that We pray to Jesus and He sends forth the laborers. Immediately after that statement in both gospels we see that Jesus then sends his disciples out to the House of Israel but notice the people that they go to must received them and the message they deliver or else they are condemned. There also was not multiple deliverances of the message to the same people suggested in these passages. If the message was rejected they shook the dirt off their feet. My point is that God expects us to receive the message when it is heard but that does not mean everyone will hear the message every time it is taught if it was not taught clearly.
I think then, in the same vein, Christians are to go out to the harvest fields of the world and we are to pray to the Lord that He sends forth laborers to bring in His harvest but it is up to the nations and people to hear and believe. We believers cannot pray down a revival on a nation that rejects Christ and loves darkness.
Granted, the gospel message today has been so muddled by man made doctrine that many people are not really hearing the Gospel in a lot of outreaches and venues coming from within Christendom. This is why some have to hear the gospel over and over before they are saved. On the other hand, many people that never heard about Western Christianity at all will receive the Gospel the very day it is told to them, when it is told to them, in a clear simple way that explains the Lord’s work at the cross.
Today we clothe the gospel in social works and denominational doctrines and mystical presumptions and that is why the response is not near what it was in the early missionary movement, at least not in advanced countries. Often if there is a response, it usually came from emotionalism and peer pressure rather than a changed heart toward God. So they come forward and confess a few words that they never really understood and then we wonder why they do it over and over again.
Good cons can get the same type of mass response selling schemes and lies, after all, almost half the world believes the religion of Al Gore. The problem is that these people never understood the real Gospel. In other words, they never really understood what Jesus did, they were taught a ritual of religion to follow rather than actually having the knowledge of the Gospel of good news within their heart.
Christians parents often try to make their children accept Jesus before their brain is even able to comprehend the whole salvation concept and then they wonder why they fall away from the faith when they become adults. The children were only doing what you or others expected of them. Many did not reason it out for themselves. Many did not reject the evil one of the world and accept the Son sent from God. Many did not willfully choose to accept the Lord that took their own sin on Himself for forgiveness of their sin bringing new spiritual life that is enmity to the ways of the world and the Devil. They just did what their parent, pastor or mentor told them.
Children are covered by a believing parent until their brain reaches the point were it can discern good from evil. So let that natural process happen. Don’t give your kids the false delusion that they were saved just because they said some words or got dunked when they really did not have the mental ability to even make a clear choice between accepting good (Jesus) and rejecting evil (Satan). There is something to be said for those denominations that have confirmations of faith later in life but unfortunately even these confirmations have become a ritual and many making such confirmations still do not believe.
To believe that Christian prayer gets people to hear and believe in Christ is really making the Church the mediator between God and man but 1 Ti 2:5 tells us that Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. That means that those given to Jesus will be saved and we are just the laborers the Lord of Harvest sends to the fields to brings in the wheat. Mary, the Church Saints, nor any of us have the power to get people converted. That is a work of the Holy Spirit.
The Great Commission to the Church was to teach the good news of the Lord’s death and resurrection for the sins of the world so all that hear and believe will be saved. Our job is not to try to make tares become wheat. Contrary to what some imply we are to give the gospel message as often as we can to the world because that is our main commission from the Lord. Even so, we cannot save and heal this nation by our own prayers and repentance. People that believe Christian dominionism before the return of Christ preach that nonsense but it does not come from any correct exegesis of the scriptures or a knowledge of Eschatology.
Much of Christendom that should be the lights to the world now really need to be preached to by others in Christendom because many in the Christian churches never heard a clear gospel that led to their true salvation. That becomes evident by the general lack of works of the Spirit within Christendom. It seems in many Christian venues and teaching the true message of salvation in Jesus alone gets lost in all their denominational doctrine, church mandates, pop messages, and political correctness.
No matter what you think of my views, if I can get some in Christendom that read my articles to just do two things, everything I try to do here on my blog will be well worthwhile. Those two things are to find out how one is really saved and then read God’s message and His instructions for you after you have been saved, by reading His scriptures. The Bible was given to the Church so that we can live a more abundant Christian life for Jesus while on earth.
Read the 66 books of the Bible from cover to cover at least once in your life and you will be ahead of 90 percent of others that call themselves Christians. At least when someone comes with a new wind of doctrine, you might know that it did not come from the Bible. Like I have often said, I cannot quote everything in the Bible but I certainly know if someone is telling me a teaching that is contrary to what is taught in the Bible.
It seems that in America, it is not even politically correct in many “Christian” churches to talk about man’s sin and his need for repentance and accepting the free gift of Salvation that comes by accepting God’s only Savior into your life. The Spirit of darkness is often inspiring the messages that comes from “Christian” pulpits and teachers. It is a “Christian” message in garments of satanic psychologies, mysticism, selective of passages out of correct context, spiritualizing, rationalizations, etc.,
The only hope for our nation is if these messages of darkness that are coming upon the people and enslaving the people to embrace sin and death gets trumped by those giving the message from God that sets men free and gives eternal life. If a nation of people is entrapped in darkness, the main thing the children of light can do is to turn on their lights. Only light dispels the darkness anywhere and everywhere. But, while shining your light for others, keep in mind that you’re only a tool of God. Thinking that you have become the power house is a presumption that you will not be able to deliver.
In summary: Things are not going to get better in this nation as long as the spirit of antichrist and darkness prevails over our people. Unless the people of this nation hear and believe and convert to true Christianity and then turn on their own lights and expel the darkness encroaching everywhere in our society, the future of America is dark. The idea that American Christians can get this nation healed by doctrines of false presumption are just not going to do the job. We need a revival and that could happen If enough believers prayed to the Lord of Harvest that He send laborers to His fields. After that, we seal our own fate and America’s fate by either accepting or rejecting God’s message. Our President has little to do with the fate of America. The fate of our nation is in the hands of God and the response that people make to the Light that is given to them.
There’s an article on Fox news about the government suing a trucking company for firing an alcoholic driver. The darkness overtaking this country can absolutely be characterized as insane / absurd.
We’re done!! The church is comotose.
Yea, when I was attending a non-denominational church about 20 years ago I would hear sermons where the Pastor would pull a scripture out of it’s context. That always bugged me and I would wonder if I was in the right church or if I was attending some cult church.
So in your comments above when you say that true Christians do not get cursed, is that because they are living under grace and not the Mosaic law? I ask this because some people claim that the law is still in effect today and they quote Matthew 5:18
“For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.”
I’ve heard some claim that obviously heaven and earth haven’t passed away and not everything has been accomplished for example Daniel 7:27.
I can understand that Jesus death on the cross put an end for the need to sacrifice but what about the rest of the Mosaic laws. Were the laws only given to the Jews and aren’t applicable to gentiles? I know a guy, a gentile who’s growing his beard out because he read it in Leviticus. Do you have an old post where you have already covered this question?
Tim,
I do not recall any old article covering this topic in detail but who knows? The best way to check out anything I might have said is to go to the homepage of my Website and put keywords in the search box on the bottom.
Christians do not get cursed because all our sins have been paid for by the blood of the Lamb. The blood of the Lamb paid for the curse of the law. That is why scripture tells us by one man Adam sin and death came into the world and by one Man Christ Jesus, the Second Adam, all sin was paid for. Eternal life is offered to all that accept God’s sacrifice for sin. We are the body of Christ. God sees Jesus in the Church and He kept the law.
The law given to Israel was a covenant entered with Israel that was given to lead them to Christ. Under that Covenant Israel proved that they could not keep the law of God. By their transgression they should have learned that everyone needed YHWH as Savior. The Law led people to God’s Savior.
Nobody was ever saved by keeping the written law other than Jesus. The way of salvation always came by the law of faith (Rom 3:27). God promised a New Covenant where the law is written in our hearts. That New Covenant was given at Pentecost to all but much of Israel and the world rejected it due to unbelief.
Now for those that do believe and are in Christ the spirit man keeps the law but the man of flesh can only keep the law if the spirit is in control of the flesh. Those that walk by the Spirit keep the law by the Law of Faith for without Faith it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6).
On the Sermon on the Mount Jesus made it very clear that the law is spiritually discerned. It goes far beyond the letter of the Law given to Moses. Those Pharisees that were thinking that they kept the law because they kept the letter of the ten commandments were quite frankly told by Jesus that they did not. Jesus emphasized that even the slightest transgression like lusting after a woman was committing adultery or being angry was the same as murder under the law. No human obviously could be justified before God by keeping the law.
The law is eternal but mortal beings can never keep the law. In our fallen nature it is not possible. There will be a day when we are changed to be like Jesus and then we will keep the law perfectly because it will be our nature to do so. Until then we keep the law by the same higher law that Abraham displayed. The Law of Faith in YHWH.(Rom 3:27)
Having said that, the ceremonial law in Israel is temporal it was given to set Israel apart from the Gentiles as a Holy nation and to show copies of things in heaven.
Everything will be fulfilled exactly as was written but remember that Jesus is the fulfillment. He did not come to do away with the law he came to fulfill it(Mt 5:17). The law was not done away with, people will still live under the law in the thousand year reign.
I think that is why unbelievers of the earth rejoice when the two prophets are killed. They did not want to submit to the law of the kingdom and in reality they could not submit because there was no law written in their hearts. Nevertheless, all in the millennial reign under the New Covenant will have the law written in their hearts.
In eternity people will live and worship God in spirit and truth, the law therefore will have no effect because where there there is no transgression there is no need for law.
Tim, as I remember, some years ago, Hank Hanegraaff was cursed by one of the leaders in the “Toronto Blessing” movement – for his criticism. Hank started a public countdown on his radio show as to the day he was supposed to die as a result of the curse. As time grew closer to the “due date”, the guy that cursed Hank finally caved. I think he wrote Hank a letter of apology.
I have noted several instances of “anointed” NAR apostles putting curses on their critics in an effort to silence them. I disagree with HH on some issues, but I admire his handling of that situation.
Don, i always thought i was some sort of outlaw, or maybe i was’nt really saved because whenever i heard a preacher or televangelist talk about people being cursed for the sins of the father for several generations i always got a funny/confused feeling. I thought that under the New Testament we were redeemed from the curse. I now realize all these feelings i used to get were not my misunderstanding of the bible but the holy spirit trying to guide me through discernment. I now realize how these preachers really twist the word around to fit there mold. No wonder people do not want to go to church and we can also thank the money grubbers on TV for peoples impression of what modern christianity is to them.Have a safe Labor Day weekend all.
Robert,
That is Holy Spirit led discernment as you said. I wrote a article that covers the false doctrine of generational curses I think you will find it very informative.
It is in a longer article on Dominion Theology so go down to the subsection titled “Dominion theology and Deliverance Ministries”
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/The%20woman%20on%20the%20beast%20in%20end%20time%20prophecy%20has%20dominion%20theology.htm
Don, thanks for that excellent response. I know it takes a lot of time to think and write all that out. Much appreciated.
Hi Don,
This is a very well thought out and well written article. Thank you!
I have a few things I would like to point out and receive your well respected opinion on. The things I will write are my own personal beleifs from reading the scriptures and personal experiences, that I hope the Lord has led me too.
1. My doctrine is very short on what it takes for Salvation. Beleive in ones heart that Jesus is the Messiah and confess this before men. What one is to repent of is their unbeleif and turn completely in the opposite direction to beleiving. To me, the stuff added on after this is just the doctrine of men and cause doubt to appear in the heart of those who beleive as to whether or not they truly have Salvation. It has taken a long time and a bunch of wading through mens doctrine and searching the scripture to come to this conclusion.
2. What a Beleiver should be concerned with is Loving God with all their heart and Loving their neighbor as themselves. Then will develop the fruits of the Spirit which are Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith, Meekness, Temperance and against such their is no Law.
3. God judges with righteous judgment. This is something that is very hard for us in this earthly body to conceive. We are not the judges God is! Praise Him! We do not know what all has happened to a person to lead that person to the present state he is in. God does and judges accordingly. We can and should discern evil in all forms it comes in. But to Judge another persons heart is not given to us. Very hard to refrain from though isn’t it. I am so thankful that God, whom knows my heart in all its goodness and badness is my Judge and no one else. I am also so very Thankful that He has given me Salvation where by my own works I most definitely do not deserve it. Praise Him. Something that has helped me be less judgmental is to try to imagine myself in that persons situation. I hope it has led me to judge more righteously, if I must judge. I beleive doing this also helps me to be a much more forgiving individual. Forgiveness is huge to me. If we don’t forgive others their trespasses against us, Scripture says he doesn’t forgive ours and until we forgive someone who we feel wronged us our relationship with the Lord will not be the same.
4. Scripture is breathed by God. The only true doctrine I have is what the Apostles beleived. The only Hope I have of knowing what is the Truth is to read the Holy Bible and try to pay attention to how the Lord is working in my life and from this have my own personal doctrine. And Hoping and Praying that this personal doctrine is True. Too often I find when viewing churches doctrine is a little scripture and a ton of man’s opinion added onto what the Scripture actually says. These extra added on opinions remind me of the Pharisees and how they added on to the Scriptures. All readers of the bible know how Jesus severely reprimanded the Pharisees. I beleive Jesus would be just as upset with what our Churches are doing in this regard as he was with the Pharisees, perhaps even more so, because more was given to us. I try to be careful when developing my personal doctrine and even more careful when sharing it. I also try to be very discernful when viewing others doctrines and to remember to always be a Berean and make sure they have Scriptural support.
5. As Beleivers, we are just passing through! Praise Him! As you said Don, this world is not our home. So thankful for that. It reminds me that though I may have the distinction of being viewed as an American, actually I am a Beleiver who is on a journey through a strange land who is a representative of the Lord. This is very helpful to me! I do not have to join in and or justify what America and the American way of life is doing in our own country and across the world. I can discern the darkness that emanates from our temporary home and reject it personally! I can understand how other countries view us and not be so personally attached to the view that America has of its self. We are not a great country because we are America, we are a great nation as we follow the Lord. This said I am not an “American Hater” but rather I do not support or agree with many of the things our nation is promoting and or doing here and around the world. But I do love its people and the values it was founded upon and I will agree with what this country does as long as it is following the Lord. My first allegiance is to the Lord, then my family and then my country.
I would rather it be that I had hope that this Nation would repent and turn in the direction of the Lord. The only way I could possibly see this taking place is if our nation was totally turned on its head. The Ism’s you listed and the others have too great of a hold on us for us to willingly let them go. I expect God to deal with America as he did with Isreal, another nation that was founded on Godly ideals but abandonded them in their safety and leisure. He would send trouble and or invasion that would totally shock their system and cause them to repent even if for only a short while. As I read the signs of the times, it seems to me that when a nation accepts homosexuality as a good way of life and perfectly acceptable that they have totally given themselves over to being in opposition to God. The only thing we have left is fearful expectation of what is coming. As believers, lets remember to give God Glory and praise in the good times but even more Glory and Praise in the bad times. God’s correction can be difficult to endure, but is most definitely a Blessing in ones life. I thank God so much for his corrections and wonder would have happened to me without them. Kinda like the spankings I received as a child, they hurt at the time, but were needed for Godly development. I had some teachers that sure could swing a mean paddle : ) in retrospect it was needed!
~David,
My well thought out opinion is that I agree with you. 😯 Thanks for your input.
Don, I am glad to have come across your blog.
It is true that children are safe until they reach the state of accountability.
It is also true that America is no longer a Christian Nation. At least Obama has that part right!
@David How do you differentiate between those that believe in their head and those that believe in their heart?
The Bible says that the demons believe and they are not saved.
To repent means to repent of sin. If you are a drunk, you stop drinking. If you are an adulterer, you stop committing adultery.
To say that all you have to do is repent of not believing is incorrect. If that was the case, then Revelations 21:8 could be condensed a lot:
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Be careful of what you teach, God hates the workers of iniquity every day. Jesus came to call sinners to repentance. Your doctrine is not Biblical.
“Children are covered by a believing parent until their brain reaches the point were it can discern good from evil.”
So Don are you saying only parent who believe in Jesus ,as the Christ, that thier children go to heaven if they diebefore the age of accountability ? Or were you just trying to point out to Christian parents that all children are covered by grace until they reach the age of accountability so do not rush them into a decision?
Clint,
First of all, most people will not go to heaven which is really the Holy City. Most will be living on the New Earth or somewhere else. I can only tell you that children that have a believing parent are holy and those who are not are unclean (1Co 7:14).
I believe that means children of the Body of Christ will go to the Holy City if they should die before they reach a state of mind where they can decide to chose evil instead of Christ.
Also you cannot rush children into making a true decision for Christ. If children make a decision just to please someone else or to fit in with their peers or the church they really did not make a decision of faith.
TK
Actually, repent means to turn from your ways to God’s ways and that means to choose Jesus and live. People cannot chose not to sin before they are even saved and given the Holy Spirit to guide them. The Church are not fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and liars because they are born of the Spirit and the Spirit man cannot sin. That does not mean that we who are saved cannot live in the flesh. Jesus paid for those sins as well and they are covered by the blood of the Lamb.
I wrote an article on salvation and how some use that “demons believing” statement for condemnation of believers. I think you might read it.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/How%20one%20is%20saved.htm
Hi TK,
I can not tell if someone believes in their heart that Jesus is the Messiah. That is why God is the judge. He searches mens hearts. To me some indications of someone being a beleiver is confessing it in front of men, if they love other beleivers because they love the Lord and they have an increase in the fruits of the Spirit. But I am oh so grateful, that the Lord has placed inside my heart the faith that he is the Christ. I hope that is the case with you as well.
If a murderer repents, he does not have salvation. If a thief repents, he does not have salvation. If an unbeleiver repents and confesses it to men he has salvation! I just read Don’s link he sent you and I hope you read it as well. Brother I have been in your position before on this matter of Salvation and I understand where you are coming from. Its so hard to way through all the different doctrines and to read and re-read and read even more the Scriptures to finally get to the Truth of the matter. You wouldn’t be hear if you weren’t searching. I remember a time when I wondered if I had to be perfect in the flesh to have salvation. A few scriptures when not taken in the context they are given could lead one to beleive this. An overwhelming amount of scripture leads me to realize that I can never be perfect in the flesh but only after I receive my Spiritual Body will I be completely free from the affects of sin. One series of verses that really helped me with this is in the 7th chapter of Romans. Where Paul talks of how the things he would not do he does and the things he would do he does.
You are absolutely right those who teach in the name of the Lord should be VERY, VERY careful of what they teach to the sheep of the Lord. With what I wrote I was not teaching, I was only sharing my personal doctrine. And what I shared of my personal doctrine is very basic stuff that I hope will edify the Church. I do hope that you will consider the info I presented and weigh it through the Scriptures and come to your own personal conclusions as you are lead by the measure of the Holy Spirt of the Lord that you possess by being a Beleiver.
Don,
I’d like to hear your comment on…
If a murderer repents, he does not have salvation. If a thief repents, he does not have salvation.
At David and Don
Wow, What about the words of Jesus Christ?
Never once did the angels say that Jesus came to save us from our unbelief,
and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Matthew 1:21
Jesus told many to stop sinning:
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. John 8:11
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. John 5:14
Is Jesus a tyrant? Is He a horrible King?
Jesus did not believe that you have to sin. If you believe that you can not stop sinning, you are in unbelief. The words of Jesus are plain, and they will judge you on that day.
As for David’s comment “If a murderer repents, he does not have salvation. If a thief repents, he does not have salvation.” You have been deceived. Look up repent in the Bible using a good Strong’s concordance. Many times the word repent coincides with stopping of sin. Just a few examples will follow:
Ezekiel 18
Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Notice how God said to stop ALL sinning in this passage. According to your false teaching, God has asked them to do an impossible task.
One more: 1st Corinthians 6:8-11
Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Notice Paul makes it very clear that the Christians were unrighteous before salvation, but not any more. And he explains that those who are unrighteous in the Church would not inherit heaven.
Please reconsider teaching folks that sinning is normal. Jesus said to stop sinning. Any other teaching is in direct contradiction with Jesus Christ.
~David
I think you missed David’s point. He was saying that people that repent of some sin/crime do not get salvation. Each person must turn from unbelief to believe in God’s Savior to receive salvation.
Today some Christians often put a meaning on the word “repent” that the Bible does not imply.
TK
Wow ..I guess I can write pages on salvation to help people understand and some people like you, still will just not get it. People are saved by grace through faith, not by choosing to stop some of their sinning. No one can possibly stop all their sinning. If they could they would not need a Savior for their sins because they would be their own savior from sins.
Jesus had not yet paid the price of sin when he was walking the earth and the Jews were under the laws of the Old Covenant. Jews had to repent of their sins and offer a sacrifice but it was this demonstration of their faith in God that justified them. We are now under a New Covenant. Those that believe in what Jesus did at the cross in His death and resurrection are saved and born of the Spirit and our sins are covered by the blood of the Lamb.
You miss the point of most of the New Testament because you’re pretty much stuck in the Old Testament and the Old Covenant. Even when you quote from the New Testament you take a passage woodenly without apparent understanding from the rest of the New Testament. You quote 1st Cor 6:8-11 and miss the whole point of the last verse that you quoted.
“And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God”
Paul was saying that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. However, they are of the righteous because they were washed in the blood of the Lamb. In other words, you do not want to be like them because they will not be in the kingdom.
Sinning is normal in fallen man, that is pretty obvious if you look around. I am saying people cannot earn their salvation by trying to stop sinning, but I am not telling people to sin. However, those that say that they do not sin in the flesh are simply liars.
Repent in Greek literally really means “to think differently” “to change ones mind” In context of salvation it means to change your mind from having unbelief to belief or disbelief to trust or disbelief to faith in God.
What the word repent does not mean in the light of the New Testament is what you imply. That one can choose to stop sinning before they are even born of the Spirit of God.
Let me tell you something else. We are not going to get into a endless discussion on your legalistic interpretations here. People that comment here believe in salvation by Grace through Faith. If you do not believe that, take your false doctrine elsewhere. Here is an article that you might read.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/The%20dark%20side%20of%20Christanity.htm
Hi TK,
Let me ask you a few questions. If someone murders someone and repents of it but doesn’t believe on Jesus Christ as the Messiah does he have salvation? Has anyone besides our Lord led a sin-free life? Do you know anyone who after they have beleived led a sin-free life? After you have beleived have you led a sin-free life? Did the beleivers that Paul sent his letters to seem to be living a sin-free life? Did Paul lead a sin-free life after he beleived or did he say that the things he wouldn’t do he did and the things he would do he did not?
The best definition I have of repent is to totally turn in the opposite direction. Kinda like making a U-turn.
Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and TURN yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. You see here where the scripture actually uses the word turn. The definition I have given you has always seemed to fit the best IMO.
Sin is any deliberate action, attitude, or thought that goes against God. You may think of sin as an obvious act, such as murder, adultery, or theft. Although that’s true, sin is also wrongdoing that’s far subtler and even unnoticeable at times, such as pride, envy, or even worry. Sin includes both things you shouldn’t have done, but did (sins of commission) and things you should’ve done, but didn’t (sins of omission). Does this sound kinda like Paul was admitting up too?
I would ask you to read, re-read, and read again Romans Chapter 6. Just because we who beleive are under Grace, does not mean we are to continue in freely sinning as the Romans obviously felt they could do, after paul’s initial teaching to them. Were these Romans beleivers? Did Paul tell these believers they had lost their Salvation and were going to hell? What was Paul’s initial teaching to them that they could have felt that way? We are not to just run around committing every conceivable sin we can think of because we know that we are covered by the blood of Christ. God forbid! IMO and in my personal doctrine, after beleiving we are to become more like Christ and to turn away from our sin as we recognize it and are so able.
Don,
Thanks for the reply.
We are on 2 sides of the fence.
Your side says the words of Christ do not apply to us.
My side says they do.
The clearest example is when Christ told 2 people to go and sin no more.
You say “impossible.” I say “yes Sir.”
@ David,
Just turning from sin does not save, you are absolutely correct. You must believe that Jesus is God in the flesh and the final sacrifice for sin as well. You can not earn your way to heaven, only through Jesus can anyone see heaven. It is the blood of Christ that washes us and makes us whole again.
As for your definition of sin, you are going overboard: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. That is the bible’s definition.
2 questions for you David: If a child molester gets saved, but then molests children again, did he really repent and believe? Is he still saved?
I would say certainly not, salvation is not a license to sin. If you sin, it is proof that you did not repent of the sin that put Jesus on the cross. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, and by saying that Christians can not obey Christ when He says “go and sin no more” is passing out a license to sin.
Paul said follow me as I follow Christ. Does not sound like a sinner to me.
Remember that Paul said “shall we continue in sin that Grace may abound? God Forbid” Paul said God Forbid that you should continue in sin.
I am trying my best to understand why so many people say that Jesus want’s us to do the impossible.
Go and sin no more. I did not say it. Jesus did.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. John 8:45
Tk
Don’t put words in my mouth. I never said the Lord’s words do not apply to us. You started here by insinuating that a person must repent from sin before they are even regenerated and that is quite impossible. I am home because I have a cold but you probably are one of those seventh day type, somehow that does not surprise me. You talk about the impossible like it is impossible for a Christian to sin in the flesh, I will tell you again if you say you do not sin you sir are a liar.
I will let David answer the rest
TK, I love ya even if we do disagree. I can tell that you love the Lord and want to follow his word as well as you can. Its why you are here and why we are having this discussion. I truly, truly would rather be able to study at an Apostles feet and come to the absolute truth of everything. I have many, many question that only they could answer. What I do have is a few of the Apostles letters and a couple letters by others and the Gospels. If I choose to I can also see what others views and doctrines is of the same Scripture that I have access too. Part of my personality is too ask questions and keep going until I feel I have the best answer possible. That is how I have come to my personal doctrine. That is the doctrine I have shared with you. It is what I truly believe after much study. Because it is what I beleive does not mean that you should agree with me. You must come to your own conclusions led by the Spirt through much study of the Scripture we have.
To answer your question, and wow you sure picked a sin that is particular disgusting to me! As I stated in my first post, it is not given to me judge someone. That is God’s position because He judges righteously. I am glad He is my judge and no one else. I am not certain what you mean by saved? That is a word that is floated around a lot these days, as is Christian. Many today are taught if they say a prayer they are saved. That is not my Doctrine. Mine is, that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. That is what I beleive to the dot on the little i about Salvation. That is a direct verse from Scripture! Whether the child molester you spoke of has Salvation is between he and the Lord. That is the only answer I or anyone could give you unless they are try to usurp God’s role as the Judge of men.
As far as your definition of sin, Jesus said that if we hate our brother in our heart we have commited murder and He also said that if we lusted after a woman, we had committed adultery. It would seem to me that Jesus’ definition of sin included much more than the Jews were taught under the Law of the Old Testament.
I will not continue on this line of conversation out of respect for the host of this site. And the rules he has in place for this blog. I made that mistake before and repented of it. Knowing me and my human nature that is still in place, though I am a beleiver, I will probably mess up again. Though in my heart I do not want to. Hopefully Don will forgive me in the future as he has in the past.
I answered you question as well as I could, but in fairness I did not see where you answered any of the question that I asked you. You don’t need to answer them here if you don’t like. I actually would prefer you go back to the scriptures and study, weighing the questions thoroughly in your heart and answer them for yourself. Its between you and God, not between me and you.
I will allow you the last word on the matter.
David,
Thanks for your kind words. I do not have it all together either. There are so many denominations and sects of Christianity that claim to be spirit led. I have only been saved for 4 years and am trying hard to figure out what God expects from me. I have come out of a pentecostal church because of all of the errors they were teaching. Now I am not sure what kind of church to attend.
Thanks for answering my questions. You are right about the definition of sin. We are supposed to keep the spirit of the law, not the letter.
Don,
Sorry to hear that you have a cold. I am sorry for putting words in your mouth. No, I am not a 7th day Adventists.
No, I do not believe that it is impossible for a Christian to sin. Yes, I have sinned since becoming a Christian. That is why I am glad for our advocate Jesus Christ. If we sin, we do have an advocate.
If y’all get time, please stop by my blog:
http://lastdayrapture.blogspot.com/2011/08/jesus-said-at-last-day.html
It has been a pleasure speaking with y’all today. I do not intend to cause any heartache or anger, I just want to please Jesus. Have a blessed day.
TK
Thanks for the honesty. I have been to your link. It denies that there is any Rapture so I do not recommend it. What you say there shows a lack of understanding of Eschatology even if you think you have it figured out by a few misapplied statements. You need to determine the difference between the Lord’s message to natural Israel and the Message to the Church. I suggest you spend more time learning on these issues and less time teaching others that they are wrong.
When I was a Christian for four years and read through the Bible several times and listened to a lot of teaching I thought I knew correct doctrine. Now that I have been studying for 35 years I know just how little I knew and how little I still know.
May God guide you into all truth.
To those who commented on my question and the other…
If a murderer repents, he does not have salvation. If a thief repents, he does not have salvation.
2 questions for you David: If a child molester gets saved, but then molests children again, did he really repent and believe? Is he still saved?
I stand corrected, I was thinking of it in absolute terms as there not being hope for the most dire of sins of murder, etc.
If we sincerely love the Lord with all our heart and soul, I would think those dire sins would be prevented by the spirit of the Lord that indwells in us.
Though, that is not to say that we are without sin, either, as Don is saying.
King David knowing the Lord, committed adultery and premeditated murder and repented of it. Is anyone questioning David’s salvation?
Hmm, that’s a good point Don.
So then, that is also saying that those who commit such things can still have salvation.
I’m at a loss, don’t know what to say to that…but terrific point.
Moses angered God and did not even get to the promised land.
Peter denied knowing the Lord after being with Him for three years and frankly telling Jesus that he would never do that.
There are many examples of believers that sinned and their salvation was/is not in question. But they always regretted the sins that were recorded about them afterward.
Of course someone that commits adultery or murder can have salvation just as someone who tells a lie still does. ALL sin is sin and offends God. I have heard Jehovah witnesses/seventh day adventists, etc. claim that someone who is a believer can’t commit those ‘types’ of sins. I respond by asking them if they have told a lie since they became a ‘believer’ in their particular faith. Their attitude changes after you confront them with their own personal sin. 🙂
The Bible is clear that Christians suffer in this life for our sins, since we are not punished like non believers are for eternity after death. It is hard for our limited knowledge of God to understand how He/His nature is sometimes, but a true believer will sin and then turn from their sin, sooner or later.
Don & Frank,
I think that puts it in correct perspective…thank you.
“Thinking that you have become the power house is a presumption that you will not be able to deliver.”
Don, I believe many Christians tie themselves in knots because of this principle.
E.G. Thinking that we must speak to at least one person every day about Christ Jesus and that we fall short if we do not, is an unconscious belief that WE ARE the power house.
The Holy Spirit is the Power House, both in our life and in the lives of our unbelieving neighbours. Trust Him to lead us in our testimony, trust Him to touch the hearts of our unbelieving neighbour. This is good healthy advice (both emotionally and physically).
I think it is Chuck Missler who says we should speak to God about our neighbour before we speak to our neighbour about God.
My motto of many years is to be prepared at all time to give an account of my faith, to take advantage of every opportunity that is given me, but not to FORCE opportunities. Opportunities may be few and far between especially in this age, but when they come they will be of God.
We are living in the end days, and I believe eschatological truth gives no hope for any national repentance, but the ‘changing of the mind’ within individuals is ever present so our ministry to our neighbour is ongoing.
That is very good insight by Chuck Missler.
Gentlemen I have come across a hindrance in finding eschatological truth for myself. I have studied the three main viewpoints of which I am aware. I can’t find enough scriptural support for either to make them my personal doctrine. All three have some seemingly valid scriptural support but all three also have issues that leave me short of beleiving that they are true. This is said after much study over the years with admitedly being in frustration at times. I would appreciate your kind thoughts on this and I assure you this is not presented as a challenge to anyone nor is it meant to start any kind of eschatological debate.
David
I take it that the first part of the paragraph is a quote of Missler. Without the quotes it is hard to determine if that is true or not. The statement seems to say something that Missler does not believe. It is very clear to me that Missler has very well defined dispensationalist futurist eschatology so I do not know what he is referring to here? Perhaps this was speaking on just a viewpoint on a certain theory perhaps? like for example the US being the nation in Isaiah 18 or a Muslim Antichrist or the timing of the Gog war etc. ? I can say much the same things on certain points of eschatology.
David ,
Regarding Don’s last comment to you : I have many hours of listening to Chuck Missler, both in
person and on tapes. As Don stated, Missler holds an absolute pre – tribulation view on the rapture. Missler is very clear on that viewpoint and is very clear that The Church and Israel
are two totally different items on God’s agenda . I would assume you are aware of Missler’s
website, http://www.khouse.org , You can also find many of his teachings at http://www.firefighters.org .
It is my conclusion that the tribulation has to do with Israel . The tribulation does not apply
to The Church. My conclusion does not mean I am correct nor does it mean The Church is exempt
from facing difficult days in the future. BLESSINGS to You!!!!!!!!
Good Morning Don,
No I woke up for some reason in the middle of the night and couldn’t get back to sleep for a while. I saw the quote from Missler in Brians comment. I like it quite a bit. I have read and even gotten to watch a lot of videos of Missler. I like the guy.
I am the one who can’t settle on an Eschatological belief. I guess you could say I am in nobodys camp on the matter because of the reason I stated in my previous comment. I have enough knowledge of Preterism, Historism and Futurism to make what I would beleive to be a fairly convincing arguments for either of the three. But likewise, I could also make arguments argainst all three, though not well enough to unconvince someone who is firmly entrenched into one of the camps. But enough for me personally to remain unconvinced. Sigh……
As I stated above I am not wanting to challenge you or anyone here on their beliefs or to start a eschatological debate. I suppose I was just using your forum to voice my frustrations and was reaching out in the frustration I was feeling last night.
I am sure that you know all the arguments for and against each as well and probably better than I do. I imagine you have felt the same frustration in the past. The other day I read about how you were able to come to your present beleifs, I have just never been able to make the leap.
This is the quote I was referring to from Missler, that I found in Brian’s comment that I was referring to previously.
I think it is Chuck Missler who says we should speak to God about our neighbour before we speak to our neighbour about God.
I really like it. Just wanted to make sure that I cleared that up. I can understand where I wasn’t clear enough above and just want to clean it up. Perhaps I am learning that “sleep typing” is not such a good idea 🙂 I understand where I could have confused someone and I assure you it was not intentional.
Good Afternoon David,
Now I get it, you were not quoting Missler you were expressing your own view.
We want you in the Premillennial camp so my kind thoughts on the matter is that you should read my Revelation Commentary and my featured articles on the Rapture and Amillennial theology (All found through the top bar).
If that does not help go to http://www.pretrib.org and read every article on the site. If you still are not Premillennial after doing that, then after the Rapture you will be 😀
By the way, I just put up my first revision to my Revelation Commentary this weekend. I am writing a post about that right now.
David ,
I fully understand your dilema on the three possible viewpoints. The best and most convicining
arguments I have found are by Hal Lindsey. I have seen Lindsey debate others with opposite
points of view and Lindsey wins. Of course that is only my opinion. The following teachers all
hold a pre – trib rapture view : Missler , Lindsey, John MacArthur, Dr. Gene Scott, Jon Courson
,Chuck Smith, Zola Levitt, David Hocking , Dave Hunt, .
Thank you Don,
I found your website something like a couple of years ago during the study and searching I was doing on eschatological truth at that time. So it has been a while since I visited your posts on it. I enjoy your insite and style of writing enough that I keep coming back to see what you have to say on a lot of issues. I will get back with you. Right now if I don’t get my girl friend to a restaurant of her choosing “end time stuff” is gonna be the least of my concerns 🙂 wow, that a beautiful day to get to enjoy here in NWA. Gonna work on my sunburn.
Hope your cold is better and you are able to enjoy the day as well. I will get back to you and when I do I may do it through an email so as to not let my ideas take away from others beleifs that come to this site. Though I do value getting diverse opinions. TTYL
Don,
I discovered your website a few years back but hadn’t checked it out for over year. I’ve been going through a bit of a struggle in my personal life, especially recently, and let me just say, this particular blog post is MUCH APPRECIATED!!!
God led me here to read this at the perfect time (and to re-read some of your other advice on your end times website). I’ve been fighting what the Holy Spirit has given me (peace and rest) with my worry and control-ism. I’ve been listening to people that I know for fact deny Christ, (wrong wrong wrong!!) instead of seeking godly, wise and loving counsel and immersing myself in His Word.
It’s back to being concerned with the things that matter– mainly equipping myself (through the Holy Spirit) with Biblical truth so God can grow my faith, and, as Paul in Ephesians says, stand firm. And I have been thoroughly reminded that God doesn’t need me– but I certainly do need Him.
God Bless you, brother!!
Angela,
Welcome Back.
May the Holy Spirit continue to bless you and guide you.
Hi Don,
Great article!
You says,
“Our President has little to do with the fate of America. The fate of our nation is in the hands of God and the response that people make to the Light that is given to them.”
I totally agree with you! And this is our sad reality. However, everyone is still responsible for the fate of America. And I believe together we can make a big difference because “Together we stand, divided we fall” .
God Bless America!
Don said “I can only tell you that children that have a believing parent are holy and those who are not are unclean (1Co 7:14).”
Don are you sure that vese (and the other verses in ICo 7) is talking about young children who pass away before being able to understand the Gospel message going to heaven or hell based on thier parents beliefs and not how if an unbeliever comes to Christ they should stay with the unbelieving spouse if they are cool with thier faith and how thru thier testimony inside the family that the others in the family are more then likely going to accept Christ too?
Clint,
No. I cannot be sure that it is talking about the children of a believers standing with God if they should die. The passage actually could mean that if a believing parent stays with a unbeliever the children will not be considered to be illegitimate children (unclean). Teachers have different views on this passage and what “holy” means here.
Don,
Enjoyed your article. I am struck by the level of “complication” people make around the question of salvation. Reading some of the dialogue, if I were an unbeliever, would leave me completely confused. Yet, Jesus said “come to me as a child”. The message was so easy to understand, that a child could get it. Yet, so often the way to salvation is blocked, in my opinion, with “recipe’s”, and “check off lists”, when its really much simpler than that. The thief on the cross is a great example of how simple receiving Christ really is.
Just an opinion from a guy who likes things simple, and boiled down.
Rod in Oregon