“Christian” leaders that appeared on the church platforms of Saddleback, Willow Creek, Crystal Cathedral and other mega churches told us that a “big shift” was coming in Christianity and it has. This shift has been from following the written word of God to following mystical beliefs. This will eventually split the Evangelicals and their largest denomination.
The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) and other Evangelicals are slowly but surely being led by the seeker friendly gurus toward embracing the postmodern relativistic mystical concepts and leaders of the Emergent Church Movement.
This danger is greater than the division in the ranks of the SBC some years ago when liberals had unduly influenced the SBC leadership. It then took Adrian Rogers and some other conservative leaders to save the denomination from the abyss. This time the division is more insidious because the deception is coming from once strong conservative Bible believing churches that suddenly and subtly are now shifting to conform to the views of the postmodern emergent “Christians” that believe that truth is relative and Eastern and Roman Catholic religious mysticism is knowledge that should be acquired by Evangelicals.
You cannot argue from the scripture with postmodern people because their thoughts and feelings and human rationalizations trump any sound doctrine arguments. In other words, they are the final authority on God or at least humans are. They have in effect made man God because only man can determine what is good and evil. They have fallen into the big lie and the trap of a Devil that they do not even believe in. The concept of any Devil or Hell is not rational to the emergent church. It is just primitive and harmful folklore.
Scripture is no longer the final authority for faith and practice to most that lead the Emergent Movement, and that is why true Christians will have to separate from them. The situation we find ourselves in within the Evangelical Movement happened before on a smaller scale in the Jesus Movement of the 70’s and it will have a similar outcome.
The Jesus Movement was big and growing in California but some wanted esoteric mystical experiences in the services more than the teaching of sound doctrine. The Calvary Chapel Jesus movement split when Chuck Smith insisted that teaching doctrine, the written word of God, be the main focus of their services and not esoteric claims and mystical experiences. Those that disagreed with Smith split off to form the Vineyard movement that became led by John Wimber. The Vineyards are hyper Charismatic/Pentecostal churches and much like Word of Faith churches they went off into esoteric mystical fairyland and produced, laughing, prosperity and healing circuses. TV also spread hyper-Pentecostalism to other Pentecostal denominations. I guess the umbrella name for these hyper-Pentecostals today (if there is one) is now known as the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). Without sound doctrine to guide them, they just get crazier all the time. On the other hand, the Calvary Chapel movement continued to teach through the Bible and most are still very solid biblical churches.
I think there will be a separation from the emergents as well, because once they departed from the word of God, there is no common foundation to stand on. I can’t stand on someone’s feelings, or on the teachings of men who use scripture as only a tool to teach philosophies that came from subjective contemplation and feelings originating in their own mind.
Unfortunately Bible believers are not going to be able to just educate or eradicate the emergents out of the evangelical movement because postmodern relativism has become firmly established; it has gone on too long. Very popular seeker-friendly gurus like Rick Warren, Bill Hybells etc, are endorsing emergent leaders. They are also joining with the NAR leaders.
What the emergents and the NAR have in common is postmodernism, postmillennialism, Dominion Theology and mysticism. They have different views of just how the Church takes over the world for God, but emergents almost all agree that Christendom must unite and take the world for Christ. Depending on the point of view of those that bought into this Dominion Theology, that either means they will once again join with the Roman Catholics, or they will be taking over the Roman Catholic system. That is why some emergent churches have incorporated Roman Catholic type rituals and its mysticism and some even push the writings of Catholic mystics. On the other hand, the NAR disciples think their anointed elite will usurp the Vatican and all leadership within Christendom. All will bow their knee to the anointed spiritual elite and that is how they will unite the Church and the world. They plan on doing it through signs, wonders and conquest (fat chance).
Emergents have already taken over many of our Bible colleges and seminaries and they are now pumping out young ministers made in the emergent image. I would venture to say that most of the young pastor/teachers coming out of Christian schools today are buying into at least some of the writings of emergent church leaders. Any small church getting a pastor today right out of Bible school will probably get someone who leans toward emergent teaching. I would also venture to say that any large church probably already has one or more emergent clerics or lay leaders subverting the church from within. Once solid Bible teaching churches and head pastors have shown little discernment about the Emergent Church Movement. Many seem to now care only about numbers and being relevant to a postmodern generation, or perhaps they are deceived themselves and have actually converted to the emergent philosophy.
For example: there is the case of Dr. Ed Young who endorsed the teachings of Gary Thomas and even hired him as a leader in his mega church. Here is an excerpt about this from Apprising Ministries (links within were removed).
Gary Thomas’ main point of teaching right now, while promoting his latest book Thirsting for God: Spiritual Refreshment for the Sacred Journey, is encouraging people to read what he calls the “Christian classics.” He’ll tell you himself that these include, for example, the emotionally troubled Carmelite nun Teresa of Avila and her disciple John of the Cross. So Thomas has clearly set aside the Protestant Reformers’ assessments of these Roman Catholic mystics; but remember, Teresa and John were living at the same time as were these Reformers. And also keep in mind that they were actually active in the Counter Reformation movement within the RCC.
In fact, precisely in answer to mystics like these, the Protestant Reformers rightly emphasized that the proper way to approach Christian spirituality was to meet God in His Word, the Bible, one of His prescribed means of grace. However, in order to teach his mystic mythology Thomas has to set aside sola Scriptura along with these apostate Roman Catholic nuns and monks; they don’t mix. You really need to understand that this is all vivid evidence of an egregious infection of epidemic proportions because it quite accurately represents the views of more and more younger evangelicals.
Not only that, but from years of using marred materials from teachers in the Emerging Church, this also serves to further illustrate the awful effects Emergent philosophy is now having within the mainstream of the evangelical community. Sadly, desperate for numbers circa 2000 foolish leaders within once conservative evangelical churches would end up using their own young as spiritual guinea pigs in “alternative” worship services and quite literally bring wolves into Young Adult and Youth ministry sheep pens. And the first thing los lobos did was to separate them away from trust in Holy Scripture.
Bottom line: If Roman Catholic mysticism is now being promoted and recommended so openly in megachurches like 2ndBC and Saddleback Church within the SBC, then we really have a huge problem.
Here is another link at Apprising Ministries that talks about Dr. Young promoting contemplate spirituality/mysticism at 2nd Baptist Houston. I merely am pointing out what is going on to you. Would anyone deny that 2nd Baptist Houston was/is a solid Bible church? Nevertheless, the facts speak for themselves and they need to hit home. This is the kind of stuff that now prevails in too much of the SBC and in other Evangelical denominations. Just about everywhere new young emergent leaders are emerging within with their subtle subversion of biblical doctrine and their insertion of refutable mysticism. The old leaders seem to have lost some of their discernment in order to be contemporary and relevant, or perhaps they are now outvoted on their own church boards?
It appears that some leaders in the SBC must want emergent leaders to deceive fellow Baptists or why else would they make emergent leader Erwin McManus the cover story of Homelife magazine? Here is an excerpt from an article that Brannon Howse wrote on this Homelife action.
I am sad to say that the Southern Baptist Convention is on its way back to liberal land. Some of you may remember several years ago when Dr. Adrian Rogers and others were successful at reclaiming the SBC from the liberals. Well, it looks like the time has come to clean house again.
One of America’s Emerging Church leaders is Erwin McManus. Erwin is an author as well as pastor of a Los Angeles church called Mosaic. Erwin is featured on the front cover of the SBC magazine, HomeLife. Inside the December issue is a puff piece that pushes Erwin and his church and books as something to be admired and read. Mosaic is reported to be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention.
If you want more information on Catholics and the emergents and how they are uniting together against premillennial Bible believers, read Dr. Oakland’s article posted on Lighthouse Trails. Here is a small excerpt. Oakland is talking here about Emergent leader Brian McLaren (internal link was removed).
In essence, McLaren is saying if you believe the Book of Revelation and Matthew 24 are yet to take place, you are a dangerous psychological misfit and are assumed to have no compassion for the suffering, no concerns for the environment or the world in which we live, and have the potential to blow up the world with “weapons of mass destruction.” If McLaren was talking about big governments and political parties, that would be one thing, but he is clear—he is referring to Christians who believe what the Bible says about the last days. (from Faith Undone, chapter 12, “A New Reformation”)
So where are the Evangelical leaders going together? You might read about this joint worship service in Green Bay. (I wonder if Greg Laurie had a Holy Hotdog there). Here is an excerpt from a news article about Lifest ( the article has since been removed).
Protestant devotions, a children’s service and the Catholic Mass each were held separately before joint worship at 11 a.m. on the grandstand featuring Lenz; Greg Laurie, senior pastor of Harvest Christian Fellowship in Riverside, Calif., and head of the international Harvest Crusades; and acclaimed worship leader Lincoln Brewster.
During the five-day event, the diocese held special activities for festival-goers such as handing out free Holy Hotdogs, Blessed Brats and Sacred S’mores, said the Rev. Daniel Schuster, diocese vocation director and a Lifest speaker.
“It was very successful and created a bridge between the different (faith) communities that are here,” he said.
That’s the goal of Lifest, Lenz said.
I just got the nook, so now we can do this whole “eBook” thing (more or less – the “level-0” eBook conversion is usually pretty primitive, but nevertheless).
You used the word ‘separate’ quite a lot: “…true Christians will have to separate…”; The word ‘Holy’ means to “separate” or be separate (just saying).
What’s really scary is the corrupt religious leaders trying to put the blame on the genuine “Christians” who stick to the truth, as if we are the reason for weapons of mass destruction or their use? Talk about trumping up a mountain out of nothing. And the debt deal (or lack of one) is all about the race card. If anyone is buying this nonsense, they can move in to the cities.
I think the key thing for the truth message is to continue to unwavere in the Book Of Revelation (the book the corrupt religious folk don’t want anyone to read – go figure), plus Genesis (Creationism scientific truths – the alpha to the omega). From a practical point, the next few years is about rudimentary survival planning (“get your act together”, slowly but surely). And get out of the cities.
Hi – the epub book didn’t work in the ‘Nook’ (“open book error”). I’ll have to try the dot.pdf instead.
“The concept of any Devil or Hell is not rational to the emergent church. It is just primitive and harmful folklore.”
I really wonder how the Emergent Churches justify themselves when they get to the parts of the Bible that talks about “weeping and gnashing of teeth” & “Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”
It doesn’t matter how anyone looks at that…it doesn’t seem like a place I want to go even looked at just spiritually …do the Emergent people just bypass and laugh it off ?
Sounds just the church at Lacodecia which Jesus said he will spew out of his mouth and His other remarks in Matthew where he says he will tell some : ” Depart from Me , I never knew you”
These clowns are leading people to hell and don’t even know it. Keep pumping out the TRUTH Don.
The last link brings up some good points we do need to tear down all the high places and remove the idols in our lives becuase they do lead to compromise and sin in ones life. Yes, a Chrisitan book store can be a very dangerouse place to be in becuase right or wrong it is a buisness and if a buisness does not make a profit it will not stay open. So be as wise as a serpent in all bookstores that have a religion section, and let us all not forget that only the Bible is inspired by God all other books are just books. I am thankful for all people who sound the alarm agianst the emergent church, mysticism and new age spirituality in the the church becuase I am not that smart and it is in all church denominations.
Why does the link basiclly lump all Southern Baptist as the either striaght up heratics and at best lazy compromisers? Why does the Independent Baptist people not make a more easy to read/modern use of the english laungage from the more better of the original manuscripts?
As far as Billy Grahm, C.S. Lewis and Diedrich Bonhoffer all three men were not perferct they too needed a sinless saviour and when you throw them in as heritics with real heratics one starts to lose credability when one starts to preach about bad theology.
IB churches seem to be pretty legalistic from the outside looking in but if I am wrong please let me know. My old computer crashed, my new one I got on the cheap , because it has no Microsoft word/ spell check/, so I apologize for my bad grammer and for my writing ability I just aint got it so forgive me.
Like I said, I did not read the ebook on that last link. Those in the SBC are a very mixed bag I was hopeing the book would identify some of the obvious problems. But, on the other hand, I would also tend to think like you that the Independent Baptists as a denomination are rather legalistic. I don’t think I would be interested in attending one.
My observation is that building large churches has become the standard for many pastors by which the measure their “success.”
The problem arises that they build a huge physical plant that requires lots of cash flow, continuously.
Ed Young and his 2nd Baptist mega-church are competing with Osteen and his mega-church. When you need more mullets with ready cash, where do you go to fish?
You gotta tickle ears to draw them in.
Eddie has other competition, too. Dallas and Houston seem to be big WOF magnets. (They have Kenny and Joyce but not Bennie). I anticipate he will further dilute the gospel to feed the cash needs of his empire.
Ed hasn’t installed healing rooms as yet. They may be soon to come.
Greetings, I worked for the Elijah List (one of the main distributors of false prophecy for the NAR movement) for 7 years and can bear witness to a lot of what is written in this article. You can read my story at http://www.honorofkings.org/elijahlist/
Don, I hope it’s alright that I put my link in here. I don’t want to take away from your discussion, I just thought that it would be good supplemental info.
Kevin Kleint
Kevin,
Thanks for the link. I am sure people will find the experience from someone that came from inside the movement enlightening.
Kevin,
That is a highly informational link. Thanks!!
I go to an Evangelical Free Curch in England Britain. I thought this would be a safe church but they have just introduced the Willow Creek course ‘Just Walk Across the Room’ to the home groups. I have had a meeting with the leaders but they just cannot see the problem. They think that I am full of fear and do not have a grasp of God’s love…. they tell me that God will not let me be deceived and that I need healing. I have been upset about this for weeks. The pastor did not even know about the ‘falling away’ referred to in Thessalonians. Now I don’t know whether to stay or leave – I have tried quite a few churches but they all seem infected. I have been accused of spiritual pride – they asked me if I thought I was the only one going to heaven. I know I am far from perfect but I can’t square what the Bible says with what is going on.
treena,
Its a virus that grew out of postmodernism. Few know or understand biblical doctrine anymore or even think it is important. Everything today is about feelings and what works for you. Apostasy is being cloned because local leaders are infected in indoctrination centers that are also called Bible colleges and seminaries. Local churches then hire people that they do not know to lead the congregation off the latest fad cliff.
treena,
As an SBC member in Texas (Capitol of WOF – Joel, Kenny & Joyce), I understand your heartburn.
Don posted the following awhile back: “Satan’s goal is to get people who identify with Christianity to doubt fundamental doctrines that uniquely defines who a Christian is. Satan then substitutes Christian doctrine with doctrines of demons in order to create counterfeits of the Christian religion.”
My observation is that teaching basic doctrine does not draw the people, tithes and offerings, needed to boost the prestige of the leaders. So, they look at Joel Osteen to use as a church building model.
Hi Treena, I feel your pain and I understand. We must all make our way through life with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. While I am not in favor of much that is liberal I will tell you that being with people who allow for the Holy Spirit to work in our lives rather than pounding us with legalism or some pragmatic interpretation of some scripture out of context does more good for our souls than we know. The others do such damage. Some of us feel it more than others. When an atheist, a Muslim and a Catholic tell me I think I’m the only going to be saved I found I needed new friends, people to speak frankly with and discuss matters of the heart. When I found a group that wanted me to input rather to dictate my input I was relieved. When Christians “commune” it should be about spreading love and understanding between them, nothing more than sharing faith and ideas from study. Keep asking for guidance and please don’t let your radar go into overdrive. It’s another way our hearts get hardened. I hope you find the right people who are interested in you and not converting you to their way of thinking. We are all so tired of being dictated to. The Bible clearly spells out human nature and how we need to deal with our “issues”, that is us and God, not the world, the government or the church.
Don,
I do not know any faithful pastors in the SBC who do not distance themselves from Rick W, Ed Young or any of these other clowns who are compromising and watering down the gospel or completely abandoning the faith. The emergent types do not find any influence at all with the majority of believers in SBC churches. Your generalizing undermines any credibility you may have.
David,
What you think you know within your own sphere does not make the case. I can say the same thing about Baptist pastors in small baptist churches in many rural areas in the country but that just is not the case in the big city mega churches that unduly influence the SBC.
How do you talk about trends in a large denomination without generalizing? I did not say that all Southern Baptist churches were buying into the postmodern agenda of the New Evangelicals but there is no doubt that that these New Evangelical types are gaining traction in the SBC.
You’re also wrong about Rick Warren. He has influenced more Southern Baptists and Southern Baptist churches and pastors than any person that I know. Most Southern Baptist churches did a study on Warren’s purpose driven book and many Southern Baptist churches bought into the purpose driven church program.
My article speaks for itself and there are links within the article to articles that supports what I said. I can tell you if your church has a fair sized youth group it has probably been influenced by the emergents. If your pastor went to Bible college and is young he certainly has been influenced by the emergents and if your church has a young head pastor and is a mega church I can generalize that you are already in a church within the emergent movement.
I am sad to say that I belong to an SBC church heavily influenced by Beth Moore. She promotes a contemplative prayer DVD that includes Richard Foster and Dallas Willard. I also took the Purpose Driven course. Thanks to a Brannon Howse presentation, I was able to discern “what is wrong with this picture?”
I was under the impression that all SBC churches were buying into the new agenda.
Hi Bob,
Most SBC churches are promoting the teaching of Beth Moore. Especially the woman groups within. One of her courses was offered in the church that I was a member of last year. I no longer attend there and probably will leave the denomination because of some of the SBC leadership and the Lifeway domination of Sunday Schools among other things.
The slide into Christian Mysticism is so very subtle. It often starts out with Christian Yoga or “finding our inner self.” One red flag that I noticed is following “the way of the Desert Fathers.” They say they seek “unity with God.” It seems to be headed in the direction of Christian New Age. It is very hard to expose when proponents like BM pull in tithe paying devotees by the hundreds.