Most Christians might think I would have to be nuts to warn others about the possibility of rising Christian imperialism at a time when Christianity is under oppression by the secular Far Left and Islam but apart from my mental condition I try to stay one step ahead of the curve.
One thing that I have learned over the years about politics is that political action on one side of the political spectrum soon produces a counter-reaction from the other side of the spectrum after a short time. The reason for that is that any political system that man tries always ends in failure due to man’s depravity. How many times have the political philosophies of the Far Left or the Far Right already been tried in the world? All governments end in failure because man is depraved. Unregenerate man will always be unsatisfied with the state he is in and because he soon becomes dissatisfied on one side of the political spectrum he will soon move toward the other side of the political spectrum for worldly solutions to fulfill his lusts of the flesh.
Now the Far Left is in power in America. But, we know from history that it will fail. Socialism cannot work because it is flawed. People are soon going to realize that the Far Left does not have the answers and they will look for answers from the Far Right but they will have no real answers either because unregenerate man is selfish and hopelessly depraved. A good example of the swings I am talking about can be seen in Latin America. They have made several swings from one extreme of the political spectrum to the other in just the last century. America also has had swings to the Left and Right although they have not been as extreme as Latin America, but that apparently has now changed.
So the rise of the Far Right in America after the present rise of the Far Left is more likely than not. In fact, we can already see that the pendulum is now starting to swing back toward the Right. But the Far Right is not going to solve America’s problems either. If a nation goes too far Left or Right and stays there for awhile it always results in tyranny because of the depravity of man.
The modern examples of going too Far Left is the Communist nations. The ones that still survive are on life support. Only China remains as a power but China really is not Communist anymore; it is Fascist. There are examples of the Far Right as well, under the rule of aristocrats, dictators and religion. Even in the days when Christianity ruled in various areas of the world we did not have anything near a Christian society; We just had Christian Imperialism. When the Church joined the Roman system after Constantine, the end results became Christian imperialism. The Roman Catholic Church has always believed in a form of Dominion Theology and its history is that of imperialism.
After the protestant reformation things still did not change for those under the control of the Vatican. The early Protestant denominations also carried out their own form of imperialism. I am not saying that imperialism is either bad or good in a fallen world. Imperialism has just been a political fact throughout most of the history of the world and imperialism was the rule in Christianity prior to modern times.
After Christianity joined the State, Christian post millennial or no millennial (amillennial) thinking prevailed. They taught that the Church reigns on earth and only after the enemies of the Church are put down does Jesus return. They often resorted to conquest and imperialism to accomplish that presumed mission. We do need to keep in mind that in the centuries that the Church and State were joined, much of their imperialism was in response to imperialism coming against them. For example Islam.
The Christian missionaries that went out to the world with the thought of “only” bringing the gospel to the world generally appeared within the last three centuries – mainly because lay Christian people started reading the Bible for themselves and started supporting the great commission apart from the State. Before that, there was Christian imperialism and allegiance to Christianity was generally forced on the populations that were under Christian control.
The Roman Church may have changed its methods in light of present world realities but its goal is still to have total religious dominion over the earth. They intend to rule over the religious of the world and I am pretty sure they will succeed in the days that the Beast of Revelation rises to power. However, the obvious Roman Harlot of Revelation and its Dominion Theology and imperialism is not the real point of this post.
I want to warn about a rising movement toward Christian Imperialism coming from elements mostly in Protestantism.
There is subtle soft dominionism coming from Rick Warren and associates with his one billion man army and there is the hard dominionism coming from various factions that came out of the Charismatic and Pentecostal movement. The name given to this movement rooted in the theology of C. Peter Wagner, is the New Apostolic Reformation.
The soft dominionism of the Christian globalists like Rick Warren is more of a left leaning socialist movement that intends to bring social justice on the earth through good social works and interfaith agreements. But hard dominionism intends to rule the world through force and it identifies with the Far Right. Some like Christian Identity and perhaps some Mormons actually expect to use physical force to bring in the Kingdom but those in the fast growing New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) claim they will take over the world through spiritual warfare. Nevertheless, if hard dominionists try to force their form of Christianity on the world through Far Right political agendas and by calling down judgments on other people, there will be physical counter reactions. By the way, the first enemy of the NAR is all Christianity that failed to take dominion back from the Devil and is hindering the “anointed” apostles and prophets of the NAR. They probably will be glad to see us removed in the Rapture if they actually believed in a pretrib rapture, but they do not. They are post-millennial.
I understand that the NAR cult is growing by 9 million people each year thanks much to undiscerning Christian TV networks that promote these heretics and the “transformations” home cell groups. In short, those in the NAR believe that God is restoring the ministry of Apostles and Prophets and God gave or is giving these “anointed ones” power to take over the world. The leaders make outlandish claims like making many trips to heaven and talking directly to Jesus and raising the dead but I really can’t get into all the garbage that they claim in this post. You can find about 150 articles on the NAR through this link.
The movement really is recycled Kingdom Now, Latter Rain, Joel’s Army, Manifest Son’s of God, etc., Dominion Theology. It seems that they have to keep changing the name to keep fooling the ever gullible. This movement is brought to you by the same loons that gave the world the Toronto “blessing”, the Brownsville “revival”, and the Lakeland “Todd Bentley kick you in the head to heal you” outpouring performance. These circus acts are prepackaged with laughing hyenas in the side rings. In the center ring you have the false prophets and healing acts. The Toad Bentley freak show was a novelty side show for awhile until he was exposed and disgraced (by the way, I now hear that Toad got spiritually restored into a real man when the Toad was spiritually kissed by the NAR enchantress). If you want more information on Toad Bentley I already have some posts written on him under my “New Apostolic Reformation” tag.
These people supposedly seriously think that they will take control over the earth from Satan by the special powers given to their self appointed anointed (I say supposedly because they really are mostly con artists or they are quite insane). In spite of what they claim I read in the Bible that God has control over the earth and that Satan rules the world systems until Jesus returns. There is no doctrine supporting Dominion Theology and imperialism or their type of territorial spiritual warfare. I see no such concept as taking the world for Christ in the Bible. I do see reaching the world for Christ with the good news. Jesus will take the world for Himself when He returns. These “Apostles” cannot even take their own audience for Christ. Instead they take them into altered states of consciousness – in other words the occult. The real problem with most of the sheeple in this heretical movement is that they do not read the Word of God. Their God talks to them through goose bumps, hot flashes and the evidence of mass hysteria brought on by hypnosis and auto-suggestion.
One of the long time chief false prophets of this movement is Rick Joyner and I understand that Sarah Palin follows his every word as if it came from God. So coming full circle on the concept of Christian imperialism you might see a real tempest in a teapot if the Far Right comes in with Christian dominionists in this country. I am sure they will try to force a Christian nation on all the heathen but is that what God told the Church to do? If the dominionists get in control in America will it be any different than it was under Roman dominionism? Will this movement go world-wide after the errors of the Far Left brings the world to economic collapse and a world war with Islam? If so, will all in Dominion Theology come under the control of Rome through manifested Marian deceptions? Who is that woman in Revelation chapter 17 that rides the Beast? Looks like she has all the garbs of Christian dominionism and imperialism to me. Any wonder now why the Beast she rides soon turns on this Harlot and burns her with fire?
Here is some history and some warnings on the NAR
Here is a very informative blog on Rick Joyner, Todd Bentley and the NAR.
How about some proof that the NAR is coalescing with Far Right Christians?
Hey , Don? Could you see if there are connections between this NAR group and a so-called christian women’s (charismatic) group called AGLOW? I met some very, very , mentally unstable women when I went to some of these AGLOW meetings. Praise the Lord, He got me through those bumpy years and now I’m back on track with Him. Thanx, for all you do.
There certainly would be quite a few NAR people in AGLOW but I am not aware that they control the leadership yet. Frankly, most of the Charismatic movement is a mine field.
Dear Brother Don, I thoroughly enjoy reading your blog. God has blessed you with keen wisdom about this evil world and the sad condition of the church. You bring your points home with a twist of humor, which makes the horrible news easier to swallow. May God continue to bless your ministry as you bring the light of His truth into this wicked world. My husband, John, and I have also been called to expose the falsehood invading American churches. This world system is satanic to the core, but God is always in control, and one day He will rule and reign in righteousness. We just updated our ministry website today with a warning to those being deceived by this NAR heresy. We will continue to pray for you, and we would greatly appreciate your praying for our us, too. May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you abundantly!
Thank you Judy. God be with you in your own ministry.
One scriptural event comes to mind: When “The Lord” chastised the Israelites for wanting a “king” (as the others do); Let me see… Saul… Then David… Then Solomon… Then various splits and “kings”… Instead, they could have just chosen Jesus (‘er, The Lord);
I always put it this way: “The meaning of life is to know the majesty and ‘dominion’ of Jesus”;
… as opposed to the “dominion” of the Church…
To answer Dettemc question connecerning the ANGLOW connecton to the NAR? Big huge yes!! Here is the link. (BAD LINK DELETED) Jane Hansen is President of ANGLOW INTERNATIONAL. She is a member of the International Coalition of Apostles which is headed up by C Peter Wagner.
Teresa, thanks for that information. I was not aware that the President of ANGLOW was part of the Wagner NAR group.
You are welcome Don. Thanks for your article, I have read some of your stuff before. I came out of this Word of Faith and NAR two years ago. I have a document you need to read, if you have not yet. I will repost the document to you shortly.
Here is the link to this document. This is from the Assemblies of God addressed to the purity commission board. NAR is a very dangerous movement, I have seen them in action. They, someday will kill people. John 16:2 These people are crazy and violent. Read this document very carefully.
http://www.discernment-ministries.org/CEGuiney1.htm
sorry forgot to link
Thanks for that link Teresa. That article really is quite informing about the history and practice of this heresy. It was written 11 years ago. And now we see things have only gotten worse. I am going to put a link to that article on the main post and in a couple of other places on my website.
They have already killed people by making false claims of healing of deadly diseases.
Teresa, thanks for the article link. It is indeed quite informative. Even given that it is more than a decade old.
When I read things like, John Kilpatrick said that the preaching in the church is what is turning people away, not the attitude of their hearts. “Let me tell you something else about this revival,” Kilpatrick said. “This move of God is not about preaching.” He said that while he and evangelist Steve Hill “do preach sermons that are simple and easy to understand, the signs and miracles are what actually turn people to Christ, not the Word of God.” I’m reminded of Is 30:10, “Prophecy not unto us right things; speak unto us smooth things; prophecy deceits”
Don, I guess great minds do think alike. While I was typing out my response to Teresa, I refreshed my browser and saw you post almost verbatim my comments.
Don, sorry to bring this up here, and if you don’t want to post my comment here in this topic I understand. But something else in the article Teresa posted reminded me of a discussion you and I had under another(albeit related)topic, with klexym, concerning the importance of theology. (Coming Christian Wealth Transfer…). “In one of his meetings, C. Peter Wagner said, “One fundamental thesis will control this discussion…the thesis that ministry [experience] precedes and produces theology, not the reverse.” Sorry for the digression.
Hi Ken,
Many of these modern and postmodern heresies are linked. The preaching of a wealth transfer to Christians, the prosperity message, the deliverance ministries, and the pop psychology that is so often taught in our churches have roots in Dominion Theology, which itself has roots to the occult rather than God’s word. I wrote about this in an article on Dominion Theology on my website.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/The%20woman%20on%20the%20beast%20in%20end%20time%20prophecy%20has%20dominion%20theology.htm
Hi Don,
At the risk of blind patronization. Great article. I especially found the stuff on psychology useful. But it’s your final point on “Dominion Theology and The Woman Who Rides The Beast”, I find most troublesome. “Jesus will soon come for his faithful Church and take her out like Enoch. Supernatural events will then take place on earth in the Middle East. At that time, ecumenicalism rooted in Dominion Theology will lead to a world church of religions that will control a world government.” I would agree this is most assuredly the case.
In my opinion, the Church (that is to say ekklesia) has more cause for concern in the coming days about the “Far-right”, although the “far-left” is no friend either, for the reasons in your article. It just seems logical to me that “Dominion Theology” or “uber-religious” thinking could pave the way for Antichrist more easily than not.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not a moderate or middle of the road-er (I’ve always felt if you stand in the middle of the road, you’ll get run over). I’m very conservative. I prefer to think of my self as old-fashioned. We don’t need to discover any new truths, we just need to re-discover the old ones.
Thanks for the endorsement.
When the self righteous run the world in the name of righteousness what sinful people will be able to meet their standards? Self righteousness can come from the left or the right but religious self righteousness is what produced Islam and even through the Left often aligns itself with Islam, if Islam ever got in control the first thing they would do is cut off the heads of lawless people on the Left.
Under pseudo-Christian Dominion Theology the self righteous will go after anyone that does not agree with the decrees of the “Church”. A prime example in history is the “Holy Roman Empire”.
We are overcomers by the Blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony. My testimony is painful, yet wonderful at the same time. I would do it all over again, and again so I can give God the glory. I am trying to be brief. From 2003 to 2008 my husband, 2 children and myself were invited to a church, big church in Huntington West Virginia. I knew it was a tongue speaking church and I was okay with that at that time. My sister is Pentacostal, so I had been exposed to that stuff. Now, this church was Word of faith, NAR and lots more but I had no clue. I was in the choir and we traveled with Morris Cerrulo to his world conference to Anaheim Califorina for years. Myles Monroe, Benny Hinn, Mike Murdock, Steve Munsey and lot more would preach and say things and I would just think, what are they talking about. Years passed and I felf sick, confused, nauses, and I knew something was wrong. People would say to me that Benny Hinn and others were fake, false prophets and I prayed God if they are please let me know and don’t let me listen to them. As time passed I had questioned some things, some prophecies that was not in the word, some practices that were not biblical and so forth. I had came under some persecution, told that I did have a teachable spirit, had a religious spirit, faulf finder and heresy hunter, decided it was time to go. I left and went to a church who had a woman preacher and she was under Christian International, none other than Bill Hamon. Two weeks later Paula White and Juanita Bynam filed for divorce. My best friend and I began to research the Word of Faith and the root of where it began, interesting and deceitful to say. I keep seeing this Bill Hamon and thought God what have I done and how am I going to get me, my husband and two children out of this mess. Blaming myself, not realizing that God had put me there for a reason. I was mad at God, I knew God wanted me there and I said God why would you put me in the middle of the mess. You took Debbie out of Word of Faith church and slapped me right in the middle but worse. I asked God why would you do this. That still small voice said long enough, had no clue what long enough meant. That woman was crazy, and some strange stuff happened there, that is never worth mentioning. We left and went back to our old church. Well, I was shocked when we got back and discovered what was there that I didn’t see before. My husband and I was back in the choir and the heat was on. Kingdom Now/Dominionism, Joel’s army, the Call, Word of Faith, Todd Bentley, all of it.
The straw that broke the camels back was Jesse Duplantis. He came to our old church every year. He said something that just floored me and set me a fire. 2007 he said that God has all power in heaven but no authority on earth, zero-none. 2008 He said it again, he also said he has done greater works than Jesus Christ. I had enough, I was very angry, and left the choir platform. I received a phone call for a meeting because I left the platform. I knew I was in trouble. My husband and I went to our Pastor and asked him if he agreed with him and he said yes. Several months later we left.
By the grace of God he protected me and my family. No one can pluck us out of the father hand. I will always give God the glory and honor for opening my heart and eyes to the truth of his Word. I thank God for men like Paul Washer, John Macarther, who preached the true Gospel to me. Researchers like Dr Orrel Steincamp, Bob Dewaay who write articles. Justin Peters, a call for discernment. Ministries like discernment ministries, herescope Sarah Leslie, Let us Reason, Truthmatters blog. I have read your stuff to Bob, good stuff. I thank you for allowing me to post a comment on your blog and for sharing my testimony. We can never warn people, if we do not know the truth of Gods word for ourselves. Whom the Son sets free is free indeed. God Bless
Who’s Bob???
Thanks for that testimony Teresa, You were in the thick of it for sure. Sounds like you had to go through it to come out of it and warn other people. I also went through many things in Christianity and that is probably the main reason why I can talk with authority about them. I know the road.
I see you tuned into some very good teachers recently and you are much richer spiritual for it. Its a pleasure to have have your insights on my blog. Hopefully others will listen and distance themselves from these Dominion Theology Third Wave presuptious heretics.
What about Bob? just kidding, I mean Don. My issue is I get so angry, I hate this stuff. I have not learn self control, still praying for that. I have seen what these false teachings do to people.` I believe one of the key factors for me in my beginning to understand this movement was; during my research I asked God what is this stuff, what are these doctrines and clearly the LORD impressed in my heart “Doctrine of Balaam” Talking about a curve. I had to research more to find out about Balaam. Bob Dewaay does a wonderful teaching on Balaam and NAR movement on Critical Issues Commentary. Thank again DON!!!
I highly recommend Bob Dewaay’s teaching. I have a link to his teachings and his fellowship on my website directory.
http://cicministry.org/
http://www.twincityfellowship.com/
Don,
I wanted to share another article that I found along the way that has some interesting history and is legtimate. Bob Dewaay has an article on the NAR that mentions Jane Leade. However, this article goes a lot deeper and more detail. Thanks, Teresa
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/the-nars-fairy-godmother-jane-leade-the-philadelphian-society/
Teresa’s experience of NAR is similar to my own. I was in a UK church for several years that had embraced the teachings and practices of the Toronto Blessing church TACF. I never felt comfortable with the meetings and always remained skeptical about it all. If you were not open to the ‘move of the spirit’ then you were like the pharisees and not spiritual enough. During this time of my life I never knew that many other Christians were speaking out against Toronto and it felt like I was the only person who had problems with it all. For a few years I never went to any church because I could not understand what being a Christian was about anymore. Benny Hinn would come on the television and other people would say that he was great and I would be thinking that he was a fake. Reading what others have shared on blogs like this and other articles against the NAR and all that goes with it have helped me find my faith again. I live in Australia now and my son attended a few meetings at a pentecostal church here. I was a bit unsure about their belief that it was necessary to pray in tongues and their belief in Divine Healing. When I looked at this church’s website I noticed that they had a massive amount of media material and all CDs, DVDs and books were by one man, Dr Jonathan David, who claims to be an apostle. I looked at the link on their website to his website ISAAC and was horrified to read his prophecies. He declared 2011 as the Year of the Unusual, he speaks about the Spirit of Accleration and his last Open Letter as the Presiding Apostle speaks about DNA. The ISAAC runs a school for children aged 3 and the criteria for entry is that the child shows good leadership abilities. Those who follow him call him ‘papa’ and his wife ‘mum’, he refers to others as the Sons and Daughters of ISAAC. All of these self proclaimed apostles speak heresies. I tried to communicate with the local pastor here however like many dodgy churches he never replied to my email. I have also tried to contact TACF and ask about their beliefs and no reply is made. If you make critical comments on Youtube or Facebook groups about Dominionism and NAR and so on no one ever puts forward an intelligent answer to defend it. People simply say it is wrong to ‘accuse the bretheren’ or ‘judge’ others. So many pastors today do not know the basic doctrines of Christianity and we now have a generation of people who have come into churches via NAR and dominionist teaching. I find it interesting that we do not see Jehova’s Witnesses as Christians because of their heretical teaching, they are a cult, yet NAR when you look at its roots is equally as heretical and more damaging because it targets traditional churches. The JW and LDS and so on remain seperate. I have looked at the possible connection between Jane Lead’s prophecies and NAR, the original texts are a bit difficult to understand because of the old style language, if anyone has links to a modern day version of them can they please put them on.
@Lucy
First, I will say this..You will not get a reply from any of these false apostles, prophets and teachers because they can not back up their practices or teachings with the Word of God. Secondly, we are to judge righteous judgment “within” by the word of God. We shall know them by their fruits. I compiled some scriptures of warnings and etc….that if you need let me know that say differently.
Also, here is an article by Bob Dewaay that maybe will help you better understand the connection with Jane Leade.
http://apprising.org/2010/06/09/the-roots-and-fruits-of-the-new-apostolic-reformation/
This stuff is pure “Gnosticism”
Lucy,
I can totally relate to what your saying.
It is so shameful what these heretical cultists have their flock to believe.
Long ago, I fell away myself from the faith of our Lord for a time because I apparently didn’t qualify to be a Christian according to the Pentecostal Church I attended. They said I was not saved because I didn’t speak in tongues after the baptism submersion.
They also claimed that they were the ONLY true church amongst other garbage they taught.
Ah well, I’m just happy to have the correct & truthful teachings of Calvary Chapel.
I should also point out that some of the Pentecostal “profits/elders” when wearing sackcloth, are wearing them with silk lining on the inside, as I found out later, talk about fraud..geesh.
All this was a nice lesson to me when I was young, that there is a big difference between religious apostates and true believers in Christ Jesus.
I like the pinkie finger BIG diamond ring that some many of the self anointed leaders love to wear. One might think they are in a used car salesmen fraternity. Come to think of it…
Yes so many of these tv evangelists have become extremely wealthy! I once watched a documentary that had been made about Benny Hinn and cried when I saw how a family with a brain damaged child had been treated by his ministry. Even those who do not profess a faith in Christ would not have treated the sick an vulnerable in this way. Joyce Meyer sometimes refers to God as the ‘All seeing eye’???. The article on Jane Leade’s influence on NAR and Latter Day Rain was really good.
And lest we forget the “Hanky Man” himself, Jimmy Swaggert who has recently slimed his way back into Christian television with a vengence…hogging three out six networks the other night with his “Send Me Money Gospel.” The guy makes me want to puke!
Hello,
can you told me more abaout the “Apostel” Jonathan David? Is he also one of the apostles from the NAR??
God bless you
Dr. Jonathan David is a false prophet that has a church in Malaysia, he is part of the new apostolic movement that can be loosely defined as the NAR
The reason why I am asking is, because some friends of mine are in a new church in our region and they follow the teaching of Dr Jonathan David now. What are the reasons that Dr J David is a false prophet and how can I give my friends a warning of this movement? Are there any reference points for exposing this false teachings from NAR and Dr J David? Is there an actual list of the NAR apostles?
be blessed
Dejan,
The NAR is just a name put on a movement. Not everyone that claims some special anointing as a prophet or apostle or healer is even going to be aware or identify with the NAR.
Have you ever tried doing a Google search on the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) or on Dr. Jonathan David’s name? If you want to research something like this, most everything said that is worthwhile can be found on the Internet. However, you are going to have to use the search engine tools to find the links to the information that you are looking for and then you are going to have to follow the links to the webpages that you think address the issues that you are looking for.
The best way to find out if someone put together a list of NAR leaders would be to Google similar terms but don’t expect anyone to list anything more than the most well known people associated with the movement. There are thousand of teachers that have bought into this theology.
Dear Dejan. I am Clujean, and I can tell you: run , run, RUN, RUN !of the liars of this mouvment and this prophets. I know them very good, because I was in that big LIAR. Thanks God he put His light among this darkness; in that ” church”, who want to make roots in Cluj, the cult of personality is the rang of honor,so as you try to talk aginst him , you will be declared enemy.Enemy of God, because of course, some are littles gods. People simply refuse to see the implications of honoring man, is over our honoring savior Jesus. All is ” wonderfull”, ” sign and wonders”, “great meetings”and all the stuffs bla bla…What happens there is a brain washing, the word of God is mixed and misconstrued , to suit their doctrine.”a little leaven leavens the whole lump”Crestinism militant:Jesus’ return is not expected, for the HERE and SOON the land will be theirs, all will thrive under the mighty hand and discerning brain reformed apostolics (as Jehovah’s Witnesses).Run , brother, run !
For Dejan. And not only ! That “church”, it claims (part of cult of peronality) tithe as in adults, and from children and do not get me wrong, it’s not tithing to the Lord, but the tithe “prophet”, where you give a amount of money for your delicate ears were “honored” to hear the prophetic voice. “The Bible says, Freely you have received freely give. What a difference. But is it to be fulfilled in the Bible-that will give teachers their ears at will. (To and pay for them). Run brother, run !
Thank you, Cluj!
I´m from Austria and I`m very worried about my friend because they are in this Movement (NAR)!I`m looking for to find some reason to warn the people, because here in Austria, Start this Movement and many people are interested about this teaching!
I´m sure, this is a false doctrine, but I need more wisdom to warn the people!
God bless you
Dejan,
If you follow the links within the article you will find all kinds of information on the NAR. There is also plenty of information on this blog to read. Just click on the New Apostolic Reformation tag that is just below the related posts section on the bottom of the article.
Thank you, Don!
Hi Don.
I am from South Africa and our church is part of Dr Jonathan Davids’ “ISAAC” network. Since we became involved with him,our compassion in the church vannished. We became “free” but actualy very legallistic.That “honouring” kind of stuff. I spoke to our leadership,but they made it off as me having a critical and judgemental spirit. I need more concrete evidance on this dude. I did discouver that he was involved with the fraudster “King David Peii” from Bourgainville. Maybe you have more on him. I await your response.
Regards,Johan
Johan,
You’re really going to have to do your own research on these little known teachers, try putting his name and the ISAAC network in Google.
Don’t expect the leadership of such a church to disagree with anything you find anyway. If they are into Dominion Theology I suggest you find a different church.
Hi Don,thank’s for the reply. What exactly is the danger in this Dominion Theology?As far as ISAAC goes,it is only their own information that they put on the web that is available. It does not realy give me tangable evidance.Interestingly,just this morning I got the scripture of Isiah 3 concerning what I should do. See if you agree that it is from The Lord ,please.Regards,Johan
Johan,
It is difficult to reply to what you are talking about when I do not have a clue what you are talking about. You might be assuming that I visit his website. I do not.
As for your question about what is the danger of Dominion Theology? I guess you did not read the post or follow the links on it. I suggest that you do that. In short, the danger is that God is not now selectively pouring out his spirit on some self-appointed anointed who through their special powers are going to take the world for Christ. They are liars that puff up themselves and deceive gullible people and they also contradict what the Bible says about end time prophecy. The Bible said these false teachers would come and heap up a following after themselves by itching ears. That is the only signs and wonders that these people deliver on.
I was in NAR,Romania, in part of Dr Jonathan Davids’ “ISAAC” network. In 2011 we goes out because of the cult of personality . They love more sweet words about the pastors leaders then God Words.( A kind of David Koresh attitude..)Our church cut in 2, half remains in cult of his personality. Yes, I like the cult of Jesus, not humanism!Don’t lift humans names, don’t lift human attitudes. Humanism = flesh, and flesh…..you know….
Hi Clujean.
Please tell me why you are saying that Jonathan David leads a cult.What happened over there? I realy need as much as possible information on him.
Regards,Johan
He ask to all the people who is walking with him, to call him ” PAPA”, and his wife ” MUM “.
For us, we have ONLY an father “Our Father who art in heaven……”, not in Malaysia.
He put his foto in all the place where he go and speak, behind him; for me, it is reprezent his personality cult. I don’t want to give praise and honor but Jesus, and not for a men.Respect, yes, I can have for a men .He request an offer of money from those who listen to him, even from children, in children,s camp. If you are not totally agree with what he says or does, you are are removed.Jesus said to His disciples :” Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.”
And more….. I don,t want to tell about what happened, but we are glad we went out of this.
If you read his articles you can see http://www.jonathan-david.org/dr_jd: “Warmest Greetings and Sincere Love from Mum and I! “
I think that ‘personality cult’ best describes the ISAAC movement. From what I can gather the churches that have latched onto his teachings and follow him blindly were mainly ones that were already very much seeped in a lot of dodgy beliefs. I am glad that you got out of the movement Clujean. I do not want to name personal churches or parts of Australia but will say that there is a local church nearby who has submitted blindly to Dr Jonathan David’s teachings and I have noticed a few things about these people. Many of them have mental health issues. No idea whether this was the case prior to them connecting with him. I have also observed that they try desperately to get into areas of leadership in the community. They do a lot of leadership courses. Once leaders or in any kind of position of authority they then go on to give people in their church jobs, we have seen this in places like the local newspaper, shopping mall,. The pastor of the church was converted several years ago during a time of mental illness following an accident. This church clearly believes that it is above other churches in the community. Most other ministers in the area have concerns for them especially their work with youth. I spoke to someone who is in a way in agreement with NAR and they actually told me that Jonathan David is very small within the movement and not heard of. His theology is basically taken from various sources, Peter Wagner, being one. Then there is a blend of Malaysian Culture, but more worrying there is a controlling personality and very deluded individual at the top here. Have a look at some of the books he has written. These are not biblically based ideas here but rather a delusion. Books and teaching CDs about how the church should spend all the money when it inherits all the money in the world. I have listened to a few of the man’s sermons and it is clear that this man has never spent anytime studying the bible, bits pulled from here and there mixed with his own agenda is basically what you will get. Very concerning… however like Jehova’s Witnesses and so on these people will not engage in any kind of debate and it is difficult trying to help them. All we can perhaps do is pray that they will have discernment and also for our own protection against anything unbiblical that they may bring to our own fellowships.
Dear Friends, thank you so much for your answers, they are very helpful to me. In different corners of the world, we all face the problems with Jonathan David, the Our Fathers Home Churches and the false teaching. I now am searching for ways how to advice against these heresy and the personality cult about Jonathan David! It seems to me that in Europe not many people thinks about heresy or even advice against false teaching! Do you have any suggestions for me?
Blessings
Dejan from Austria
Hi Dejan, I hope that someone on here can answer the concerns that you have. I am also a bit confused about the idea of apostles. I read an article a while back and from what I can gather C. Peter Wagner who specialises in missiology noticed that in certain parts of Africa the church was growing where the office of apostle had been reinstated. This then led to the New Apostolic Reformation. I will try and get a reference for this for you. I am not sure if actually using the term ‘apostle’ in itself is wrong? What these NAR guys are doing is basically chopping and changing the doctrines of Christianity and selling a lot of media material. As I said in my previous comment my understanding is that the churches that got involved with Jonathan David and the likes were already perhaps holding a lot of unbiblical views anyway. As far as I am aware churches who have ‘connected’ with Jonathan David also give a tithe to his ISAAC ministry. It is difficult to actually find out anything more about the man other than what he preaches. He has the title ‘Dr’ does he have a doctorate? If so in what subject? Or was he a medical doctor. What was his own conversion experience. Why do his followers call him ‘papa’ and his wife Helen ‘mum’? Is this a Malaysian cultural thing?
Dejan, there is a guy called Justin Peters who has done seminars looking at Word of Faith, Prosperity Gospel and so on and his critique of this is all backed up with scriptures.
Hello there! I just wanted to warn you to stay away from Dr. Jonathan David “teaching”. I went to his school in Malasya a few years ago. I met some of his “sons” and “daughters” from the US…some of the are Pastors.I actually attended a couple Of churches, one in Chicago and the other one in Florida.
In my experience all that I can say is that their teaching are based in false prophecy, prosperity and titles. I thinkk now days, our World is full Of false “prophets” AND we should be careful who we listen to. Back in that time, I felt I was doing the will Of God by going to Malasya. I was wrong. I even bought all Of his books, attended his School Of prophets,but at the end, the Lord rescued me from all these lies and false prophets. I can go on and on with more info in regards to my experience with them, but I rather just pray for people to stay away from them.
Blessings to you. My advice to you is to read your Bible AND to not trust anyone but Christ. He will lead you where you need to be.
You are correct P. Ovelar, Jonathan David is indeed a false prophet and his books are based on dominion, word of faith and NAR. There is something creepy about the guy and those that I know who follow him blindly. It does tell us in the Bible that in the last days there would be false teachers and so on, Do you know anything about the school that they run for young children aged 5 and above, where a criteria for entry to it is that the child show good leadership qualities, I also find this worrying.
Can you tell me anything about Kenneth Gentry. He wrote a book called – He Shall Have Dominion. He is a minister with the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. I can’t find anything on him per se. Is he a false teacher and should I be concerned about his teachings?
Nancy,
This link will explain the theology of Kenneth Gentry and why you do not want to believe his Dominion Theology.
http://www.raptureready.com/who/Kenneth_Gentry.html
Hello Clarity! To be honest with you, i don’t know anything about that School you are talking about. All that I can say is that Jonathan David influences a lot of people around the world. Some of his “sons” are prophets, apostles, etc and a lot of them live in the US, Singapour, Australia, Papua New Guinea one in Estonia, etc. The ones I know, preach prosperity, dominion, word Of faith… Etc. It is like a cult, and their members are so deceive by this man and his clase doctrine.
I am so glad you mentioned this issue in this website, so people can be aware of who he is. I pray that God will teach him his will and that He will correct him from his wrong way of preaching the Gospel and influence others with his false doctrine. Be blessed !
Myles Monroe is from the same league, They all preach the same thing!
I am glad to have this Information about Jonathan David. Here in Austria we have a church with many devoted People, but still following his doctrine. The pastor of this church was trained and educated on the Creare Ministries in South Africa.For him (the pastor) is Jonathan David „The Apostle“, who has the one and only right profecy, doctrine and autorithy.It is the first church of this doctrine from Jonathan David in Austria and I hope it would be the last one as well.
I am shocked to hear that Dr. Jonathan David, according to you, he is a False Phophet. I am one of those who currently listenning to his teachings. Now I have questions to raise. Why do you say that he is practicing heresy? Why do you say he is false prophet? Why do you say his ministry is occult? What is the main issue about NAR? Why NAR is not accepted as true christian theological teaching? What is wrong about the Dominion Theory? Is it not unbliblical? What about Honour/Tithes, who should receive this then? So what kind of Christian Church will be the true one? Please help me by providing logical and answers backed by scriptures. Also tell me that Dr. Jonathan David’s Teaching are not biblical Why?
Riley,
You want to know what pisses me off on this blog? People that ask a lot of questions but won’t do one thing to even read the article, follow the links in the article or read the comments. If you would do that you should have the answers to your questions. If that is not sufficient use the search tools on this Blog. I have a tag named “NAR” that links with many articles that I wrote about the NAR.
Here is one long website article that I wrote that deals with this issue in a very broad way.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/The%20woman%20on%20the%20beast%20in%20end%20time%20prophecy%20has%20dominion%20theology.htm
Riley there are several things wrong with the New Apostolic Reformation and also the teachings of Jonathan David. I don’t have the time just now to write an in depth theological account of it all but will briefly point out this. The NAR was birthed by C Peter Wagner who is a specialist in mission. He saw that in parts of Africa where that offices of apostle had been reinstated there was church growth. We now have people claiming to be apostles around the world. The term apostle in itself is not wrong if it is being used to describe a missionary, one who is sent. These modern apostles however are claiming to have the same status as the early church apostles and teaching that their prophetic words are equal with the scriptures. One of the teachings that of DNA, Divine Nature Activations is a belief that is found nowhere in the bible. The Little god’s doctrine is also highly blasphemous. Riley you say that you are currently listening to Dr Jonathan David’s teachings, can you please tell me who gave him the title ‘Dr’ does he have a Phd, or something else? What do you know about this man’s personal life? When did he become a Christian, did he spend anytime studying theology? What job did he do before going into this apostolic ministry? I have looked at a lot of his teachings and can tell you without doubt that this man is clearly a false prophet. He takes portions of scripture and uses them to fit with the prophecies that he claims he is getting from God. Some of these prophecies are for entire continents like Africa and Europe. Most of his books are about the transfer of wealth that he believes will occur in the church and how this money should be spent. I would say that it is unlikely that he has ever been endorsed by anyone else in the NAR movement. I have managed to make communication with others who are quite influential with this movement (I personally don’t agree with it), and these leaders have never heard of him, he is basically self proclaimed. Another area that concerns me is that those churches who are blindly following him see themselves are superior to other Christian churches. The pastor that I know who foolishly led his congregation into all this ISAAC stuff does not have any qualifications whatsoever in the way of Biblical teaching or theology and ALL his sermons come from Malaysia. You can read the above articles and several others online that will definitely give you a sound biblical argument agains NAR.
Hi Don. Just finished reading the article you wrote on Dominion Theology. Don’t think what you write never has an impact on any one. I have to take a few deep breaths. A few years ago the church I was going to then gave the Experiencing God course by Henry Blackaby. He and his co author son talked about the generational blessings and curses. I have spent hours trying to figure out who in my family messed up with God and hours trying to explain to God that what I did wasn’t my kids fault. I know the scripture that says every one pays for their own sin, but when teachers who are supposed to know more than the lay people…well I believed them. Thank you for clearing that up. I commented once that I had a degree in Behavioral Science but I got out of the field long ago because I hate psychobabble. Here again I bought into something you addressed in your article. I have the book Why You Act The Way You Do by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1984. It is the temperament theory. I really believed it and even preached it to my friends and family. After all, it came from Tim LaHaye.
Two years ago I started asking God to just show me His truth. Last year when I bought my computer one of the first things I did was find this website. You can reach your own conclusions. LOL. My point is that even people who are otherwise grounded in scripture have let a few unbiblical teachings sneak in. {If this red line shows up in my comments it looks like my spell check is on but I didn’t turn it on so I don’t know how to turn it off.}
I need a more detailed clarification why you are saying Dr. Jonathan David is a False Prophet. I do not want partial explanation. Please give me a full explanation backed up by scriptures why you are saying Dr. Jonathan David is a False Prophet? Although, I appreciated the links that you have provided, I still prefer you give a detail explanation and backed up with scriptures. Why I am saying this is because all the teachings I have heard from Dr. Jonathan David has biblical references. I therefore, want to prove who is telling the truth. Because only the Truth shall make me free. That truth is the Word of God. Please provide a full detailed explanation to me. I know his background on how he became a Christian and his Minitry. Now tell me why you said he is false prophet and his teachings are heresy and occult?
Let me ask one other question, does one has to be a Theologian to be qualified as true Minister and soul winner? Is it in the Bible that one has to be a Theologian to bring soul’s to the Kingdom or a believer in God and one who recieved Christ in his/her personal life can win souls for the Lord?
Can you tell me who are the members of the NAR movements?
Thanks Don. I will read all these links and hope to get more clarity on this and my questions answered accordingly.
Caitlin,
Glad to be of assistance. Christian leaders have bought into many things that came from the philosophies of humanistic and presumptuous men and not the scriptures. That is why we have to check out all new teachings against what the scriptures actually say.
Riley,
I think If you read the links that you should already know enough to discern the problems with the NAR. I do not know much about Jonathan David because he is not well known outside of his own cult. Others here have told you what they know about him. You really can do your own research and check out his teaching against the scriptures. I do not think we are going to get anywhere with telling you specifics about Jonathan David if you want to believe that hucksters are prophets of God.
Ever heard of Google? Type in “New Apostolic Reformation” and then start reading what those knowledgeable of the scriptures say about this movement. You can find the leaders of the movement by using the same method. If anyone else here wants to spend hours digging up specifics on J. David that is up to them. However, I think your real problem is why you get sucked into believing that the Bible teaches anything like these false prophets and teachers claim at all.
Your real problem lies in not being able to probably discern the scriptures. When someone quotes cherry picked scriptures you need to be able to determine that these scriptures are being used correctly in proper context, but apparently you cannot make such determination. Nobody here can learn the scriptures for you and give you understanding. You are going to have to study to show yourself approved. Learn the truth and the truth will set you free.
Thanks Don. My specific question is on Jonathan David. Yes I know about google but I do not normally trust google. I only trust the Bible. I have accesssed those links but my question still remain. May be those who know Jontahan to come out and explain in depth why they claim he is cult and false prophet. Specifically Jonathan David. I am asking for the truth here. I am not a bible scholar thats why I am seeking your guidance on this…
Riley,
You obviously are not reading the comments already presented here or else you have a reading comprehension problem. like I implied before, the problem is not just what J. David teaches, the problem is what all the Latter Rain makeovers and New Wave NAR prophets claim. They are all heretics, so get to the bottom of the errors in the whole movement and you will see the whole wheel and not just focus on this little spoke.
You should know that if you really read or understood the articles. If you do not trust articles on Google use Yahoo or Bing.
Here is the real problem. Somehow you think Christians are lying to you because you do not know the scriptures yourself but you are willing to trust men that are making a living itching ears with the claims of supernatural power and revelation that they really do not have.
If you want to stick with the Bible, try reading it first, and then compare what the Bible says with what these false prophets say using passages in their proper context.
Anyway, you are repeating yourself, if anyone wants to give you any more specifics about J. David I will post them but I am not going to post anymore of your repeats.
Don,
I appreciated your advice and guidance on this issue. I also, appreciated the fact that I was able to access your blog. You are correct, I need to get to the bottom of the whole movement. I will spare more time to study the word of God to be able to descern things. I believe God will help me to find the Truth..
‘Honour to whom honour is due’ (Just read this on Jonathan David’s website) not been on it for ages. Same usual stuff about impartations of the spirit that come about when a church tithes to his ISAAC organisation. Same self proclaimed pride. There are many articles written about NAR leaders however I think that with Jonathan David they are scarce for 2 reasons. Firstly he is not that influential in the NAR movement and secondly his prophecies and so on are not entirely consistent with it. Todd Bentley was commissioned by ‘apostles’ even although he was claiming to have seen angels and been given ‘words’ from God to physically assault people in the congregations. Later Bentley was shown to be committing adultery and left his disabled wife and quickly married the other woman. The ‘apostles’ were quick to defend themselves here and make sure that their own false prophecies and mistakes with endorsing Bentley were not apparent.
Clarity,
Thanks for looking into it and your assessment, but I am starting to the think that all the focus on Jonathan David is really not useful for the post discussion. So unless someone has the specifics asked for by Riley I am probably not going to post any more comments about Him.
My apology for causing inconvenience to your blog or whaetever. I only asked and enquire because I read too many posts about Jonathan David on this link. I do not know you either, let God himself be the true judge. Anyway, I am reading the NAR etc..and hope to return for more discussion…
Riley
I am 71 years old and have spent the better part of my life studying God’s word under the ministries of several great Bible teachers.
At the first I did not have the abilities needed to do the digging and research myself but I did not need to, for God “gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, unto the work of ministering, unto the building up of the body of Christ: till we all attain unto the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a full-grown man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: that we may be no longer children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error; but speaking truth in love, we may grow up in all things into him, who is the head, even Christ” (READ Ephesians 4:8-15)
God has given the gift of pastor teacher to certain men and we would be foolish to excuse ourselves from his provision by saying I don’t know if a certain man or other is so gifted. The Apostle John tells us… “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world” (1John 4:1). How do we try the spirits? By means of God’s word and this is not overnight or a once only, but consistent day by day commitment.
You have come to Don’s blog for a reason, do you enjoy what he has to say, does what Don has to say ring true? If you have been born again (John 3:3-7) the Holy Spirit WILL speak with your spirit and you will know the truth, but again it may not be overnight, for God does test our faith AND our commitment.
I have been following along and encourage you to commit yourself to consistent day by day study of the Bible. By all means test the spirits of the likes of the NAR movement and Jonathon David but do so from a Biblical viewpoint AND the ministry of someone whose main focus is to glorify Jesus Christ not themselves. Don is one such man but there are a number of others whose differences in the minor points of doctrine will only broaden your appreciation of God.
It is through the Bible that God teaches us his truth and by means of the gifts he has given to certain men. Find such a man or men and you will be blessed beyond measure.
I agree with Brian from Oz. I have found Justin Peter’s teachings on NAR to be very biblically based and they have helped me understand a lot of the heresies behind the Word of Faith Movement, NAR and the prosperity gospel. Some of what these people teach is actually sound doctrine and I think this is what makes it all the more dangerous. I do not believe that any of us has everything 100% correct or can claim to be interpreting the bible with complete accuracy. I think that when we should begin to question a movement is in cases where traditional Christian doctrine is being changed or where people are being told that a financial contribution will guarantee them a blessing or healing.
Clarity,
I find very little sound doctrine among NAR or Word of Faith Movement teachers and I am no novice. Any biblical scripture quoted is usually twisted. It is dangerous because it is a different gospel and people that are not grounded in the scriptures blindly follow what these heretics say.
Yes Don I know that it is mostly heretical. I think what I was meaning to say is that sometimes these people do teach things that are okay and also their dangers lie in the fact that they have filtered their way into mainstream christianity. They certainly twist doctrines as you say, Benny Hinn for example will tell you about the atonement through the death and reserrection of Jesus however he then adds that complete healing is attainable as well as salvation. The ‘toronto blessing’ was all grounded in the belief that God wanted to to show us how much he loved us. We know that this is true God does love us, he loves us so much that he sacrificed his only Son. No one can argue with this, but then these apostles go on to say all this other stuff they are teaching and all the unusual practices are all because of this love. A lot of people get their theology from Christian television. Another trend that I have noticed is that people tend to idolise some of these tv celebrities or self proclaimed prophets and apostles. Regardless of what they may say or do, vulnerable people feel that they have to somehow be faithful to them and defend them.
I didn’t know how you guys judge so quick.. Don’t you ever understand that God don’t want David even touch Saul because Saul was God’s anointed that time. Its in God’s hand only… Why don’t grab your Bible and ask Holy Spirit to teach the way… Remember that in John 6:66 many of Jesus follower turned their back on Him…. It’s better to search on the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit than to easy believe to the person judge without hesitation the persons who been reading the Bible and serve God for more than my age… What about Dr. Jonathan David is a real? Don’t you ever think about that? IF YOU ARE SPIRITUAL, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THING THAT IS SPIRITUAL, YOU WILL NEVER BE CONFUSED weather the person is cult or not… Dr. Jonathan David is a person with a passion to be God’s vessel for God’ miracle… Instead of judging them, pray for our nations. On this very moment how many people are victims of drugs rape, terrorism and so on… It’s better to keep busy praying those problem. Than having this misconduct over God’s servant.
Oh come on Jeff, you cannot be that naive!
Paul told us that wolves in sheep’s clothing would come. Obviously he told us that so that we could identify them. And how do we identify them? By their destructive actions toward the flock.
Those in the Body of Christ are all anointed by God, we are members of one Body and the head is Christ, not some self-anointed huckster with a cult following. We don’t need thousands of Popes, in fact we do not need any.
You’re equating us rejecting these con men and presumptuous hucksters to those that rejected Jesus?? Then you have the gall to suggest that we do not read the Bible and get Holy Spirit guidance? However, we can identify the wolves in sheeps’s clothing but you can’t with all your own “presumed Holy Spirit” guidance. Obviously you have no guidance from the Bible or the Holy Spirit on this issue.
Where in the Bible does it tell us to pray for our nations? We are not of this world. The Bible tells us that this world is under condemnation. Our job is to tell people how they can saved out of the world. You seem to think praying about the sins of the heathen will make them sin less, that is witchcraft, not prayer.
I really have to wonder what Bible you’re reading and what cult you are caught up in? Jonathan David is just one of thousands of wolves in sheep’s clothing not sparing the flock and you are just one of the bewitched that are promoting or enabling them.
I have said it before and I will say it again… emotions are not the substance nor the sustenance of spirituality. If emotion is not controlled by TRUTH our feelings, whether pleasant or indifferent are of the flesh.
God’s word is truth and if known and understood will affect our emotions from the extremes of guilt and sorrow to that of ecstatic joy, but without knowledge of His word we WILL be subject to the dictates of the flesh.
The only dominion theology which is correct comes from the prophetic scriptures about the Lord Jesus Christ and His return. That is when HE takes over all things in a physical and dramatic manner. Today, since Christ first came, the ONLY thing we are to do is preach the Gospel, worship God in Spirit and Truth and love both Him and our neighbors, especially the household of faith and taking care of them and orphans and widows. Living holy is our objective in this life as the Holy Spirit sanctifies us. But to take over nations and governments is NOT IN OUR WINDOW OF TEACHING FROM THE HOLY SCRIPTURES AS TAUGHT BY JESUS OUR LORD. TO DO SO IS REBELLING AGAINST CHRIST AND HIS WORD! God had many purposes in raising up Israel as a nation theocratically ruled, but that stopped by His decree and the contuining Church had different marching orders! These folks are way off base and misrepresenting the word of God and in fact, teaching a false Gospel which Paul through the Spirit stated was worthy of being “sent to hell” accursed or anathamatized.
Don on September 18, 2013 at 6:21 pm said: “Where in the Bible does it tell us to pray for our nations? We are not of this world.”
You are not even sharp in the basics of the Bible, how then do you lead a revolt against Dr. Jonathan David and lead others to do the same?
>Jeremiah 29:7< "But seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the Lord on its behalf, for in its welfare you will find your welfare"
Jones Agyemang,
What I said is true. Christians are not of this world. Christians should pray for their leaders so that they can live peaceful lives without government persecution but the Bible does not tell us to pray for nations. God does not save nations, He saves people in nations that hear and believe the Gospel.
I think I am sharper than most in understanding the Bible and if you actually read the almost 1300 articles that I wrote on this website and my over 4000 comments to those that comment on what I wrote you would have to be brain dead to think that I do not know the basics of the Bible. I suggest you do a little more research before you jump to such unfounded conclusions just because I do not agree with the teaching of Jonathan David. Apparently you did not even read or understand what I said in the post article.
Contrary to what you said, I am not leading a revolt against Jonathan David. I never even mentioned or knew of him before a person that commented on one of my posts brought his name up. I then researched what he taught and see that he fits in the Word of Faith, NAR, signs and wonders, Dominion Theology camp that claim they get direct revelation from God outside of the scriptures. That is just one heresy that I fight against, but I am just one small voice among many that are doing so.
I find it telling that you would even mention a revolt against Jonathan David like he is some great anointed religious figure that one dare not disobey, but that is your problem. People like you appear to prefer to worship self-anointed cult leaders rather than the real Jesus that the Bible speaks of.
Have you called Dr. Jonathan David to discus your charge of heresy(“That is just one heresy that I fight against”) against him concerning his teachings on “Christian Imperialism and the Doctrine of Dominion”?
Conflict Resolution: Jesus’s Way
>Matthew 18:15-17<
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector"
Jones Agyemang,
In the obvious context that only applies within a local congregation. I have no influence over the teaching of Jonathan David and his church is those that follow him and they are already in his cult. Besides, once he made his teaching available to the public and it has become a matter of public record. Therefore, it has to be corrected publicly because people were already exposed to it and mislead by it.
You are also assuming that Jonathan David was not told about his heretical views by other leaders but if you did a little research you would find out that this is not the case.
God told the Church to judge all that people teach against what the scriptures say to see if the things the teachers have said are so. We are told to mark false teachers and we certainly could not do that if some were not checking out and exposing these false teachers
And I will tell you some other things that you probably will not like to hear but nevertheless it is true. Those that throw Matthew 18:15-17 in people’s faces out of the obvious context are themselves twisting scriptures. What motives their own mishandling of scriptures and false presumption?
Use a little common sense here. Should I be calling every author that publishes something that I have a disagreement with? First I would have to find them all. Next they would have to take my call and they won’t. Next they would have to agree that they are teaching heresy and they won’t, and then they would have to agree to stop and they won’t. Then if they did not agree to stop their heresy there is no two or three local church members that I could tell it to that do not already agree with his heresy. finally there is no Orthodox Church that it could then be told to, since all he has is cult followers. So grow up! What you are suggesting is total nonsense.
Frankly, you might think that such trite smug answers puts you on the high ground scripturally but in reality it just shows you’re using silly arguments to appraise an area that you do not have the wisdom and understand to even discern.
Don, You certainly don’t need my defense so I won’t send you a bill. Lol. I just thought this would be a good time to say I also think you are sharper than most in understanding the bible. I appreciate the time you put in to keep up with current trends so you can warn us about what’s going on in the church and in the political world. I pass on a lot of the information to other scripturally sound believers.
In Sunday School the teacher just finished several weeks of teaching on Covenant and Dominion Theology. I was surprised that half the class didn’t know what it was.
If you’re going to lead a revolt against something let us know. Some of us might want to join up.
The Church is turning on itself. There is a ‘Davidic War’ in the Church today propagated by Rick Joyner and Mike Bickle. The ‘spirit realm’ people are the “Davids” and we, the written Word Logos followers, are the “Sauls”. We are to be ‘removed’ as we are the ‘tares.’ Anyone who ‘goes against the (false) spirit is ‘evil.’ This comes straight from occultic medium Jane Lead from the 16th century who predicted that in order for the “great lord” (antichrist) to come, the Church had to eradicate any non spirit realm persons! So this occultic message is now in the pulpits! But even now, Fundamentals are turning against their own. Due to serious lack of Biblical discernment, many are following Rick warren, the occultic “Message”, as well as false teachers John Piper, Timothy Keller (who promotes finding your spiritual ‘monk’ inside of you), Dr. Larry Crabb, and many others who now promote bringing Catholic mysticism into the Church. The Church is becoming Occultic (mysticism) Universal (ecumenicalism) and Militant (dominionism)
Also Richard Foster by far is the most dangerous man influencing the Church today thru the elimination of true Biblical prayer for contemplative prayer, promotion of the Emerging Church and “Spiritual Formation’ a false doctrine that is eliminating Truth. (now in Dallas seminary, Moody, Wheaton, Bryan College, Tyndale etc) Foster along with Dallas Willard co wrote the “Renovare’ Bible” which denies the authority of the real Bible. Also Spiritual Formation is connected to the dangerous Shalem Institute which employs New Agers and Catholic priests teaching ‘the (false) gospel. “In the last days, men shall no longer endure sound doctrine but embrace doctrines of demons.” I and II Timothy 4
And then, there’s the Church’s embrace of the occultic book “Jesus Calling.” ! ! !