Although I have seen this study posted in several different parts on a re-posting site elsewhere, the complete study is available on the link. This is about the best study I have seen on all the possible timings and positions on the Ezekiel 38-39 war. It gives all the different views and the pros and cons of each position. Nathan Jones position is quoted below. To read all the other views on this you will have to read the whole article.
By the way, Nathan’s position is the same as mine except for a couple of timing differences. I am not sure this war is before the Rapture and I do not see how Israel could be burning the weapons of war for 7 years during the great tribulation? At that point Antichrist has complete rule over the land of Israel and is exterminating Jews that did not flee to the mountains for safety. So how can Israel be burning Gog’s weapons of war in the great tribulation of 3 1/2 years?
My position is a little different then any Nathan presented. I think the war of Ezekiel 38-39 occurs 3 1/2 years before the 70th week of Daniel begins. After Gog is defeated supernaturally by God Israel burns the weapons of war but is forced to stop burning after 7 years because Israel has to flee from the Antichrist when the two witnesses sent by God are killed.
If you look at the many different views in this article, you will see that none of them perfectly fit. I believe there is a reason for that. It is because most everyone thinks the war of Ezekiel 38-39 and Armageddon will happen within a seven year period. Actually I do not see where these events have to be limited to seven years at all. I do not think we can assume that all the seals of Revelation are within the last seven year spoken by Daniel. We also cannot assume that the first seals are part of Jacob’s trouble. The Jews are not even mentioned at all in Revelation until after the 6th seal is opened.
I say (not dogmatically) that the last seven years actually starts after the 6th seal. It begins with the sealing of 144,000 Jews. With my view we have a 10 1/2 year period from the war of Ezekiel 38-39 and Armageddon. All prophecy can then fit without using a shoehorn. In my view seven years after the Ezekiel intervention when the world is expecting a type of Christ to appear they receive the Antichrist.
So when is the Rapture in my view? It is imminent. It could happen today. It could be before the Ezekiel war or after it but before the sealing of the Jews.
Articles – Featured – Timing Gog-Magog
Timing Gog-Magog
When will Ezekiel 38-39 be fulfilled?
by Nathan E. Jones
My View
Which view one holds probably rests more on what one sees is the view that provides the most logical answers to the prerequisites. To me, timing the Gog-Magog Battle just before or at the very beginning of the Tribulation can best fulfill these prerequisites and makes the most logical sense in my mind.This is how I see the timeline most likely playing out:
1. The Rapture of the Church removes the Restrainer.
2. Israel subjugates their surrounding neighbors in fulfillment of Psalm 83.
3. The Gog-Magog Battle destroys the Russian and Muslim influence in the Middle East, makes the world aware of God’s presence, and restores Israel’s belief in the God of the Torah.
4. The Antichrist conquers what’s left of the Middle East and makes a peace covenant with Israel to complete the Revived Roman Empire.
5. Israel spends the seven years of the Tribulation burning the weapons.
6. Jesus returns at the end of the seven years to defeat His enemies at Armageddon resulting in Israel acknowledging that Jesus is God’s Son.
7. Jesus gathers the people from all over the world for the Sheep/Goat Judgment, which results in only believers entering the Millennial Kingdom.Time will tell when the Gog-Magog Battle will truly take place. But, the players are already in place and the scene is just about all set for this epic battle to be waged in the not-too-distant future.
I was just wondering if you are familiar with an article on Google entitled “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty” and would like your reaction to it. Carmen
I do not recall seeing that particular article since I do not spend my time searching to read articles with bad and rehashed theology. There are thousands of articles written against the pre-trib postion and they all bring up the same old tired arguments that have been answered over and over again.
In short the main problem with the post toastie position is that they cannot discern the difference between what is written for Israel and what is written to the Church. They also do not understand that the Bride of Christ is already without spot or wrinkle because she is a new creature washed in the blood of the Lamb. They think the Bride has to be purged of imperfections during the tribulation. Post toasties think the faithful Church needs to be perfected by fighting the Antichrist and through martyrdom.
Some new post toastie authors today teach the Beast is Islam because they think that they are already in the tribulation or that we will be in the next couple of years and Islam is the only possibility of a Beast that fits their extremely short time line. Or course it is all nonsense. The Beast/Antichrist is lawless and Islam is anything but lawless. The whole hedonistic Western world is not going to convert to the laws of Islam.
If you search the article achieve on this website pre-trib.org you will find most of the arguments that refute any of the rehashed post toastie views. I am not going to rehash the many arguments here. My views are already written in my own article on the rapture.
Is there a possibility of Ezek 38 being fulfilled in the past while Ezek 39 refering to the End times ?
No. There is no history of this event ever occurring in the past and remember that there are no chapter breaks in the Bible so there is no reason to make any time separation based on chapter number alone. This whole section of Ezekiel from chapters 35 to 48 are sequential events. First a dead nation of dry bones coming back to life in the land of Israel and then God puts His Spirit in them at the the time when God will make Himself known to the nations of the world through the supernatural judgment of Gog’s army that come down against Israel. There probably is a break between the war of Gog and the full restoration when they receive Jesus as Messiah by the end of chapter 39 but all these events occur sequentially in a short period of time in the latter years, By chapter 40 we have arrive to the millennial reign and the remaining chapters speak of that.
I’ll explain what i don’t understand.
Chapter 20-33 prophecy’s of the destruction of Israel and surrounding nations , which is understood to be fulfilled by the Babylonians. Then we have a selected flock returning (Ezekiel 34:11-16) and the same theme continues.
Now, if we are to consider the gathering mentioned in Ezek 34,35,36,37 as refering to the present gathering, it would result in skipping of many major events that took place. We have to skip the gathering at the time of Ezra (Ezra 1:1-11). The major events under Hasmonian, Hellenistic & Roman periods goes unmentioned. We have to put a break of 2500yrs. But no such break seems to be there in the prophecy.
How do you explain this ?
Israel did not repent and was again cast out of the land after the time of the Ezra fulfillment. The apex of this second diaspora took place in 70 AD. In this case they did not just go to Babylon for 70 years like the first time, Israel was dispersed among all the nations of the world. There never was a State called Israel after the second diaspora until 1948 and Jerusalem was not in the house of Israel’s control again until 1967.
The prophecy of Ezekiel 34 -37 never took place in history so it obviously was not talking about any gathering of Jews in the occupied periods. It is also followed by chapter 38 which says it will take place in the latter years.
As for time gaps in Bible prophecy? Consider the 70 weeks of years prophecy in Daniel where Daniel foretold that the cutting off of the Messiah would come 69 weeks of years (483 years) after the command to rebuild the Temple, it did. We now see that there has been a break of nearly 2000 years. After this break the prince to come (Antichrist) will sign a covenant with the many for one week (Da 9:26). So There are gaps in Bible prophecy. In the prophecy of Daniel there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week to insert the time for the fullness of the Gentiles to come in by grace through faith in the Jewish Messiah and in the case of Ezekiel prophecy God will also not restore the house of Israel in the Land until near the time for the end time fulfillment of the very related Daniel prophecy.
Regarding the 70weeks of years timeline to purify Israelites; if the 70yrs was in reference to Jesus taking 70yrs, then that would be possible. Because a day in Heaven is not like our day.
But the 70yr period was given to Jews, not the messiah. And 2000yrs have now passed for the jews.
This keeps me confused.
You missed the point, it was not 70 years it was 70 x 7 years or 490 years. 483 were filled to the Jews and then they cut off their Messiah. According to the prophecy of Daniel the Messiah is cut off after the 69th week of years.
Therefore, there remains one week of years to finish that prophecy of Daniel. That week of years according to another prophecy in Daniel starts when the Antichrist makes the seven year covenant but then commits the abomination that causes desolation in the holy place after just 3 1/2 years. The remaining 3 1/2 years after this event is described as the great tribulation. It will be the worst time this world will ever know (Mt 24;15). After that comes the restoration of Israel.
I suggest you get a book on Daniel because several passages in Daniel describe events about this final seven year period. There are many good books on Daniel out there but you can also find out this information on the Internet by doing a search on “the seventy weeks prophecy of Daniel”. or something similar.
Yes im aware that 70yrs is 70x7yrs.
But my point is this, 70×7 yrs are determined from so and so time, according to the prophecy, for the israelites to be purified. But from the time when the 1st of 70x7yr starts we have crossed around 2000yrs. So when the prophecy is supposedly fulfilled, it did not take 70 yrs as stated by the prophecy, but 2000+ yrs.
But you explained that the last week starts based on another prophecy after anti christ arrives. Ill have to read more on that.
Moreover, you have interpreted the last verse of daniel 9 to be refering to anti-christ. While i understood it to be refering to Jesus, on his 2nd coming, removing the abomination that would be setup (by the false messiah). Is my understanding wrong ? or is it a valid possible interpretation ?
That’s the point. Since it did not happen in 490 years as Daniel said there has to be a time gap. Jesus was cut off in the 483th year from the decree just as the prophecy said. But, what was to take place in the 70th week never took place. Now we understand that there is about a 2000 year gap for the gentiles to come in before Israel is restored as the prophecy states. That final seven years is known by premillennial believers as the tribulation. It also is called the time of Jacobs trouble based on Jer 30:7. In all Old Testament prophecies there is the Day of the Lord where great troubles comes upon Israel just before her restoration so that verifies it could not have literally happen yet.
On your question on verse 27.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
In context of verse 26 you should see that the “he” in verse 27 is talking about the same prince that will destroy the city and the sanctuary in vs 26 and bring the end. It is very difficult to understand how some can think this is talking about Jesus but I know preterists and some amillennial believers say it is, That is probably where you got that view. But, Daniel 11 31-32 confirms that this is talking about the Antichrist or the Antichrist foreshadow.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
Daniel 12 also sheds some light on the matter
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
All are talking about the same thing but Jesus is clearly not in view here. Jesus Himself confirms this in Matt 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
MY VIEW IS SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT IN SOME ASPECTS. ITS A CERTAIN AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED THAT THE EZEKIEL WAR OCCURS BEFORE THE RAPTURE, AND DEFINITLY NOT ARMAGEDDON.
1. GOG AND MAGOG ( BELIEVED TO BE RUSSIA AND SATELITE NATIONS AND LIBYA AND TURKEY COME DOWN AND SURROUND ISRAEL. I BELIEVE THAT THERE WILL BE AN OCCURANCE OF EITHER ISRAEL RESPONDING TO KNOCK OUT THE NUCLEAR FACILITIES IN IRAN OR FIGHTING HEZBOLLAH IN LEBANNON OR HAVING TO FIGHT IN GAZA OR WITH THE NEW DEVELOPMENTS GOING TO BATTLE AGAINS SYRIA AND IRAN IN THE MEDETERANIAN SEA. RUSSIA WILL USE THE SAME EXCUSE WE USED TO INVADE IRAQ, WE WERE JUSTIFIED AS WE DID IT TO SAVE ISRAEL FROM THE SADDAM HUSSIEN’S THREAT OF USING SCUD MISSILS CAPPED WITH CHEM WEAPONS AND SENDING THEM TO ISRAEL. OF COURSE IRAQ USED THOSE CHEM WEAPONS AGAINST HIS OWN PEOPLE THE CURDS AND ALSO IRAN IN THE IRAN & IRAQ WAR. ISRAEL WOULD HAVE RETALIATED AND DESTROYED IRAQ WHOSE ALLY WAS RUSSIA AND THEREFORE USHERING IN A GLOBAL WAR. WE WERE RIGHT TO HELP ISRAEL BUT COULD NOT PUBLICLY STATE IT DUE TO THE MUSLIM COALITION OF FORCES ASSISTING THE USA IN THAT WAR. THE RUSSIANS WILL BE WRONG TO ATTACK ISRAEL.
2. THE BOWS AND ARROWS ARE KNOCKED OUT OF GOD AND MAGOGS HANDS. I BELIEVE THAT ALTHOUGH THE JEWS REJECTED JESUS, (AND THEY HAVE SUFFERED FOR IT) GOD STILL LOVES THEM AND WILL NOT ABANDON THEM. THE USA IS THE ONLY NATION EVER CONCIEVED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION. AND FOR ONLY 3 REASONS. 1. TO EVANGELIZE THE WORLD FOR CHRIST , 2. USHER IN THE BIRTH OF ISRAEL. 3. AND TO PROTECT ISRAEL. GOD WILL USE OUR NATION THAT HE HAD ESTABLISHED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION (ALTHOUGH NOT ALL HERE ARE CHRISTIANS)TO ONCE AGAIN COME TO ISRAEL’S DEFENSE AND WE WILL HAVE A NUCLEAR EXCHANGE WITH RUSSIA AND POSSIBLY CHINA AND WE WILL BE THE REASON THE BOWS AND ARROWS ARE KNOCKED OUT OF RUSSIAS HANDS. HE WILL USE THE NATION THAT ACCEPTED HIS SON JESUS (christian nation per say) TO SAVE THE NATION ISRAEL WHO REJECTED HIM, WHICH ALLOWED OUR SALVATION, AND GOD STILL LOVES ISRAEL. WE’RE GODS SECRET WEAPON AGAINST RUSSIA AND OTHERS. DURING THAT TIME HE WILL SPANK US AS WE ALSO WILL BE DESTROYED AS A VIABLE NATION AND SO WILL RUSSIA. AFTER OUR DESTROYING RUSSIA’S ABILITY TO LAUNCH AGAINST SMALL ISRAEL ITS THEN THAT ISRAEL WILL DESTROY 4 FIFTHS OF THE RUSSIAN ARMY SURROUNDING THEM AND MOST OF THE ARABS.
HOW CAN ISRAEL DESTROY SUCH A VAST ARMY WITHOUT USING NUCLEAR WEAPONS? AND IF THEY USED NUCLEAR WEAPONS THEY WOULD ALSO BE WIPING OUT THEIR OWN SMALL COUNTRY. SO HOW? BECAUSE ISRAEL’S MAIN DEFENSIVE WEAPON IS NUETRON WEAPONS. THESE WEAPONS WERE DEVELOPED BY THE USA AND RUSSIA, BUT ARE USED BY ISRAEL DUE TO THEIR SMALL SIZE. NUETRON WEAPONS WILL NOT DESTROY ISRAEL BUT WILL KILL THEIR ENEMYS, THE MEN IN THE VEHICLES AND TANKS BUT NOT DESTROY THE VEHICILES. THAT IS WHY IT TAKES SEVEN YEARS TO GATHER THE WEAPONS OF WAR AND BURN THEM AND THEY BURN ON THEIR OWN. THEY STILL HAVE LIVE SHELLS AND PETROL AND OTHER CHEMICALS IN THEM.
THAT WAR CAN HAPPEN AT ANY TIME NOW. VERY CLOSE I THINK AND ITS DEFINITLY BEFORE THE RAPTURE BY A FEW YEARS AS (TRAVELERS , OR TOURISTS VISIT ISRAEL BUT CANNOT SEE THE VALLEY DUE TO THE GREAT MOUND OF BODIES BURIED THERE THAT OBSTRUCT THE VIEW. AFTER OR DURING THIS WAR THE DOME OF THE ROCK WILL BE BLASTED OFF THE TEMPLE MOUNT ( MY OPINION )AND THE TEMPLE REBUILT. THEN AFTER SOME YEARS THE ANTI CHRIST COMES AND MAKES A PEACE DEAL WITH ISRAEL GUARANTEEING THEIR SAFETY ( AS THE USA IS NOT AROUND ANYMORE TO DO THAT, THE JEWS AGREE ). THE MUSLIMS HAVING BEEN DECIMATED IN THE WAR WILL BE REGROUPING AND POPULATING AGAIN AND WILL STILL BE ANGRY AT THEIR 3RD MOST HOLY SITE NOW A JEWISH TEMPLE, AND SO ITS EASY FOR THE ANTI CHRIST TO COME OUT AND OFFICIALLY GUARANTEE THEIR SAFETY. THAT IS UNTIL THE JEWS SEEING THE TWO PROPHETS RISE FROM THE DEAD REALIZE THEY DID KILL THE MESSIAH AND THEY THEN KICK THE ANTI CHRIST OUT OF ISRAEL. OF COURSE THEN COMES THAT BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON WITH THE OLD ROMAN EMPIRE AND THE ANTI CHRIST.
GET READY FOR THIS WAR WITH RUSSIA, ITS COMING SOON. MAKE SURE YOUR BORN AGAIN AND ALSO LIVING FOR JESUS CHRIST OF NAZERETH.
AMEN
MICHAEL FAIN
Thanks Michael,
I can understand the rational for most of your views but of course it really is your conjecture. I think there are a few things that perhaps you are not considering. Israel will have to be living in peace and security at the time of the Gog invasion and the destruction just might be supernatural. It does not have to be a result of man’s weapons. After all God does have angels with great power and God says He will become known to the nations through the destruction that happens to this army that invades Israel.
Also, leaving the 6th part is only found in the King James. This use of the Hebrew word wvv (shawshaw) as leaving the 6th part is in dispute. The best scholarship now thinks the word actually means to annihilate. This survival of any part of this army is also not found in the Septuagint.
I was thinking maybe the Ez. 38-39 wars are imminent and will lead to the arrival of the anti-christ (the winner of the war, seen as a savior/hero, gets capped to the head and dies (and goes to heaven or the grave to wait for judgement day depending on who he was), then the body is revived by satan, and possessed by him, and making him the leader of the world. At that point there would be 7 years left.
The Ezekiel 38-39 war is not imminent. Israel is not living in peace and security with none to make them afraid as required in Ezekiel, and Russia does not have the capabilities to move such a splendidly attired force against Israel at this time. The most likely next general war is the war of Psalm 83 which is when the Arab confederacy conspires to cut off Israel from being a nation (Iran is not with them). The Ezekiel 38 war is still probably one to two decades in the future. However, what happens in this present decade sets up the conditions for the wars for the next decade.
I am writing from Nigeria. God bless you real good. I agree with you that there has to be a war between Israel and her Arab neighbors (Psalm 83), which Israel will win and consequently dwell in safety and security before the Ezekiel 38/39 war happens. But I believe that the Ezekiel 38/39 war will SURELY happen before the rapture; and it will infact be one of the signs for the church to watch out before the rapture….. GOD BLESS
Hi Godswill Eke,
Thanks for your input.
It very well might be but that kind of destroys immanency since it will be a great sign and also because we know Israel will only be burning the weapons of war 7 years and that keyholes the rapture to within a seven year period. More likely the Rapture happens when nobody expects and it is before the Ezekiel 38-39 war.
The link, below, has information on the oil discoveries in Israel. I have to believe this pushes Israel closer to the attack in Ezekiel 38.
http://www.judithlevy.com/?p=523
Hey Bob,
Good and interesting article about Israeli Oil Shales…it’s amazing to me how quickly things are coming together.
Added Comment: Notice that Baron Rothchild is an early investor in the Israeli oil project and Soros is absent. I don’t know of any significance – I just found that interesting.
so what about real live events happening now over in Israel with Egypt?? The hurricanes the earthquakes??? Isn’t it getting even closer??
What’s Egypt’s roll? When will they start building a new temple? I think the Psalms 83 war is up first. Ezekiel war is decades away.
I think the Psalm 83 war is next and Egypt will be involved in some way.
It certainly will get messy. in the Middle East and not just Egypt. We have always had earthquakes and hurricanes. I see no prophetic significance in the ones that we had recently.
Don,
IMHO, Isiah 17:1 is connected with Psalm 83 & Ezekiel 38 & 39. (I am trying to avoid being tossed into Don’s deep, dark, dank, dangerous dungeon for those who post “off topic”)
Assad seems to be digging his heels in. Isiah 17:1 is still unfulfilled (as many regular readers of this blog already know).
I believe it is within the realm of possibility that Assad would attack Israel to divert his Islamic neighbors that are putting the squeeze on him. Since Damascus is only about 35 miles from the Golan Heights, it would be an easy target for an Israeli counter-punch.
Hey Bob,
I agree that Isiah 17:1 is probably within the Psalm 83 war and almost certainly before the Ezekiel 38 war.
I also agree that Assad might do something really stupid to try to save his butt.
I read one of your comments where you said that the Anti – Christ could not be Islam,and you said that Islam was not lawless but with all due respect the Koran itself and it’s teachings are very Lawless.
When you consider the fact that it’s teachings is a major false teaching and a mis leading of the true word of GOD.
Teaching something other then the true word of GOD is(Lawless) because anything outside of GOD’s word is Lawless.
So the west might sin and not change Islams ways but Islams teachings is very Lawaless in the eyes of GOD because it goes against GOD’s word and anything that goes against GOD’s word is Lawless.
Who is the anti Christ? it is he who denies The Father, son, and the holy spirit this sounds like the whole world now a days, Jews do not believe in the tri unity,Islam does not believe in that and others do not believe in that only Judeo Christians.
I am not saying that Islam is this anti christ, I am just saying they fit the description.
The flag of the Arabs are the colors of the four horseman,red,white,green,and black.
Also many do know this but the roman empire stretched throughout alexandria,pergamum is in turkey a major head quarters of the Roman empire which is now very Islamic.
I enjoy you comments and just wanted to share my view.
Islam might be lawless under a biblical definition of lawlessness but it certainly is not the definition of the world. Islam is all about living under submission to their law. The point is that the western world is never going to submit to the restrictions of Islamic law.
The riders on the horses are sequential and they bring different events on the earth. The Arabs are likely to attack Israel as a confederacy as describe in the war of Psalm 83. There is nothing in the four horsemen prophecy that even refers to Israel. I am sure I can get any handful of nations of the world and find those four basic colors on there flags, so that speculation is meaningless. What you also miss is that each rider is displaying just one color not four.
I get so confused reading all the prophecy views online, but am glad to have found your theory that the rapture could be up to 3.5 years before the tribulation actually starts. I have never noticed that the Jews aren’t mentioned in the six seals before, or even considered that the seals might not be part of the tribulation. Doesn’t the Bible talk of the saints being at war with the Antichrist until the very end? I know that 2/3’s will die, be trapped in the city, dispersed into slavery, hunted down, etc., but couldn’t some remain and fight while still burning the implements of war? Also, what do you make of the warning and woe to pregnant and nursing women in Jerusalem? I can’t figure out why no children up to age 33 months aren’t mentioned and also a woe to those with small kids, unless weaning age is considered three years old. It makes me think that the rapture happens at the sixth seal just before so many people and nationalities show up in Heaven, and the only children are afterwards, infants born at least 9 mos. later and those in the womb. I take the Book of Revelation in exact chronological order, and am taking note of the 5 months of scorpion like stings, 200,000 man army, etc.
V.
The book of Revelation is not in exact chronological order. Some of it is and some of it is not. You might read my Revelation Commentary (top bar) that should clear some things up.
Ezekiel implies that the Army coming against Israel will be destroyed and Israel will take a prey of those that tried to take a prey from them, so I don’t think some in Israel are still fighting while they are burning the implements of war.
I don’t know what you mean when you say no children up to age of 33 months are not mentioned? I do not think scripture implies that. Anyway I can’t explain all the details of Bible prophecy to you here your going to have to study it.
couldn’t there be jews that’s worshiping the anti-christ,that’s burning the weapons past the first 3 1/2 years,or the abomination of desolation?
Gary,
That’s kind of hard to do when all Jews in the land of Israel that do not flee the Antichrist will be killed. There is also the burying of Gog’s army to consider. It says the whole house of Israel will be involved in that, and this certainly could not take place in the great tribulation.
Thanks a lot. I believe Ezekiel 38 will be fulfilled soon bringing the antichrist into power.The 7 year peace deal and the temple building would follow.Tribulation will begin after building the temple that is after three and a half years of deceptive peace
. Ezekiel 39 wil be fulfilled at the end of the 7 year rule.
Jasmin,
I follow that reasoning until your last sentence.
Where do you make the distinction between Ezekiel chapter 38 and 39 since they are obviously talking about the same war? Keep in mind there are no chapter breaks in the inspired scriptures. If you put Ezekiel 39 after the 7 years that are yet to be fulfilled by Israel you have arrived into the Millennial Reign. Yet, the first part of Ezekiel 39 talks about the same Gog war as chapter 38 so they are not in the millennium at that point.
Thank You, for the response.Some prophecies of Daniel have double fulfillment.Antiochus Epiphanes sacrificed a pig on the altar causing desolation already as in Dan.11:31and exalted himself.Yet the same verses in Daniel 11:31-44 are once again going to be fulfilled in antichrist.Similarly Israel’s triumph of Eze.38 will open its way for building the temple with the peace deal of antichrist.In Armageddon Israel suffers till Christ intervenes according to Zach.14:2-4. Revelation speaks of 7 trumpet events before millennium begins.When the 7th trumpet is blown 7 plagues begin.Rev.16:16 speaks of the nations gathering together for Armageddon after the 6th angel poured the 6th plague vial.By now the events of 7 trumpets are over. The war of Armageddon is between Christ and the beast.Birds get an invitation to eat the flesh of mighty both in Ezekiel 39 and Rev19:17.but Eze.38 is a world war when Israel is attacked some nations question the purpose of the enemy.In Eze.38 God fights with hailstone,brimstone and pestilence.In Armageddon its the word of God that will defeat the enemy.Rev 19:21,Zach 14:12. The spirit of gog and the spirit of the beast is the same. It is Satan.
Jasmin,
You really did not answer my question.
If you say there are two different wars being described within Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 where does one war stop and the other war begin? Just to say that there can be more than one fulfillment of a prophecy does not explain the detail and the apparent continuance from Chapter 38 to Chapter 39. As I said, there are no chapter breaks in scripture and it seems to me that what is said in chapter 39 is just continuing the description of the war being described in chapter 38.
Prophecy does not have more than one fulfillment. There are types or shadows but they are not fulfillments. For example Antiochus Epiphanes who was before Christ fulfilled Daniel 11:31 but He could not fulfill the abomination that causes desolation that Jesus said would come in the last days. Antiochus was a type or foreshadow of certain aspects of the coming Beast/Antichrist but only the Antichrist can fulfill the passage that Jesus and Revelation attributed to him.
Hello Don, thank you.Though its true chapter division came later, for
me it looked like 38 had its beginning and end.As 39 has things in
common with Revelation, and as it begins once again like a new call on
gog without the specific names of nations I took it that way.Anyway
now when I look at it as you say,I think it is possible.But I can’t
overlook the fact 39 has similarities with Armageddon.So I would like
to study the subject further and follow the website closely. Thank you
and God be with you.
Hi Jasmin,
I understand your difficulty because the end of Ezekiel 39 appears to bring us to Armageddon and the Millennial rule. That makes it difficult to make this war a pretribulation war or a war early in the last seven years. Yet, obviously Ezekiel 38 is not Armageddon. I have come to the conclusion that chapter 39 is split. The first part is talking about the same war as Ezekiel 38 and the second part of Ezekiel 39 is talking about later events after that time. It actually makes sense since Ezekiel 36 until the millennial chapters 40-48 seems to be sequential in time.
It really is a difficult issue and that is why I wanted your explanation rather than try to lead you to my own solution. I believe in my own studies I put the break between the two campaigns at the start of Ezekiel 39:17. In other words, the uninspired chapter breaks that were later put into scripture was put in the wrong place in this case.
All Russia’s recent economic and military alliances have been updated. Russia is building 100 new army and airbases one of 31 points listed in this new research.
http://www.raptureforums.com/forum/gog-magog/61824-where-we-towards-ezekiel-chapter-38-39-fullfillment-7.html Post 131
Tom,
Russia certainly is modernizing its military but it will take more than a decade for them to get it done. Even the link you gave said the actives listed will only be 70 percent accomplished by 2020 but then it suggests the Gog war will occur in 2017. That is not likely or logical. It is more likely that the Gog invasion will take place after Russia has the military capability to lead the Gog invasion and that will be more like 2025 to 2030. I know people don’t like to hear that the end is that far off, but people need to be realistic. A great army and the alliance of nations described in Ezekiel 38 and 39 cannot be built overnight.
Don,
Thank you.I think it’s not enough to watch Russia alone.What about old Gomer(isn’t it Germany now?)Togarma Scandinavian nations,Iran etc? About Time: Isn’t there a chance of it coming as a reaction to war against Syria, and getting over by 2016?
Jasmin,
I believe Togarmah is the peoples of the South Caucasus and East Turkey. The location of Gomer really is not all that clear. It is probably referring to central Turkey or parts of Eastern Europe, Germany could be included.
The war of Ezekiel 38 and 39 is about coming down against Israel to take a spoil, it is not about Syria. Everyone wants to make the Gog war happen by 2016 but it simply can’t. No matter where you think the powers come from they simply cannot be put together that fast.
If there is a NATO reaction against Syria, it is not going to be the war of Ezekiel 38. More likely it will be the (revived) Roman Empire expanding into the middle east areas as it existed in the days of Jesus.
Looking at the Middle-East right now its looks like Israel will strike at Iran’s nuclear sites in 2014. Then Iranian commanders leading Assad’s troops into battle in Syria might turn their missles on Israel then Israel destroys Damascus (Isaiah 17:1)in one night.(Isaiah 17:14) This would anger the Sunni Arabs in Saudi Arabia who are financing the Syrian rebels against Assad and when Damascus is destroyed they surely would come after Israel. Iran would not care about the Destruction of Damascus since Damascus is not an Iranian city but the Saudis especially prince Bandar who finances terrorism would give Al-Qaeda the signal to attack Israel then all the terrorists on Israel’s borders Psalms 83:6-8 territories would attack Israel and they would perish Psalms 83:17 giving Israel a time to live safely Ezekiel 38:11 for a few years. Ezekiel 38:13.
The year 2014 will likely be prophetic as the Iranian nuclear sites and Damascus will likely be in flames and Israel will then confront all the Sunni Arab Jihadists and Israel’s enemies shall perish. Psalms 83:17.
LuJack,
Israel is not going to destroy Damascus just because Syria or anyone else fires some missiles as them. Israel may act stupid at times but they are not nuts and Israel’s enemies are not likely to perish because of the actions of the Israel Defense force. Like many others, you are taking tribulation events and projecting them back to 2014 or thereabouts, it just is not going to happen that way.
Hi Don;
Thank you for this page and the many hours dedicated to the study.
My daughter alerted me about the Tetrads. I have done some pondering about them and although I haven’t done such an in depth study, I have some ideas you may find interesting.
The Tetrads of 1949-50 mark a major milestone in the fulfillment of Ezek 37. Hitler played his roll in the Valley of the Dry Bones, and 1949 was the taking over of the region of Palestine and creating the state of Israel is of massive prophetic importance.The fact that the Tetrads fall on both the Feast of Pesach and Sukkot coupled with the fact that there’s war, Israel is victorious, and they get the land is amazing enough, but then you have the 1967-68 Tetrads which also involved war, Israel is victorious and then they take the City of Jerusalem.
So, now, we have the 2014-15 Tetrads. I believe that it would be a logical conclusion to presume that the Tetrads of 2014-15 will be the time when Israel takes the Temple Mount. The 2014 Tetrad year, if it follows the pattern trend of the first two will involve war, victory, and a significant gain, the Temple Mount.
So, if the Tetrads are the frame for Ezek 36-39, the war of Gog and Magog should take place somewhere around April 2014. The Temple Mount should change hands around September around, what else, the Feast of Tanernacles.
I think the Rapture can trigger the attack because it will weaken the US more than any other country in the Middle-East in proportion to the number of Christians present in each country. The more Christians disappearing in each country, the bigger the crisis and the recovery will correlate.
The desolation caused on these nations by God’s intervention will put Israel in a position to demand possession of the mount and a Antichrist will immediately will draw the agreement with the sole purpose to deceive Israel by appeasing them.
Is present day Israel at peace? The answer is no and yes. Israel feels threatened, but they have a certain sense of confidence. They’ve been victorious in most of their wars. I’ve hear speeches where they talk about their Secret Weapon. That Secret Weapon could be God, or perhaps some real development.
Hi Mex,
There simply is no way that the Gog war can take place this year. Nothing is anywhere near lined up for your scenario to be possible. As for the Tetrad, I don’t think the eclipses have any prophetic significance. I wrote about it in the following article.
https://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/blood-moon-of-joel-and-revelation-not-about-eclipses-of-2014-2015.html
The Psalms 83 war will likely take place in the summer of 2014. Then Israel will have a few years living safely. (Ezekiel 38:11)
Lujack,
I don’t see that happening either. How do you get all the Arab players together in just 6 months or so when they are busy fighting each other? There is more likely to be a general war in the middle east between Sunni and Shia than there is any united Arab Confederacy fighting Israel. In reality, the Arab nations have been trying to cut off Israel from being a nation for 66 years and have failed in every attempt. I don’t suppose anyone wants to believe that it can even go on for even another decade.
Thanks for your reply.
The Tetrads that fall on Jewish feast days are not too common. The last 3 were in the 1400s, 1949, and 1967. It’s a narrowing frequency. There will be no more “Jewish” Tetrads for 500 years after 2014-15.
The “Jewish” Tetrads are more unique and significant than you think. The Jewish calendar is a Lunar Calendar, and it was prescribed by God as well as the Feast Days. Jewish Holidays are God’s and not ours.
We receive the visit of Amir Tsarfati in our church. He says that Israel is safer than New Jersey (NJ is often used to illustrate the size of Israel). He illustrates the safety in Israel by contrasting the number of rocket attacks with the number of casualties caused by the attacks. Deaths by drunken drivers in NJ are higher than by local attacks in Israel. Over 6,000 rockets were launched from S. Lebanon before Israel intervened to put a stop. Deaths caused by those rockets can be counted with the hands and there are many anecdotes of people being missed by minutes or seconds. Population is growing in Israel rather than seeing people running for safety.
Prophecies are not 100% exact. Prophesies present patterns that fit a series of events and general description of the situation surrounding the events. Russia is aligning herself a number of Middle-Eastern countries. These happen to match the menu in Ezekiel 38. The US has been a deterrent to further attacks on Israel for many decades, but in 2013 Putin has risen as the world leader for the first time in many years over any US president. POTUS today is a laughing stalk and has telegraphed unwillingness to engage in war other than push-button and exiting. Iraq is falling under Al-Qaeda and Afghanistan looks like will be following after our exit. Ezekiel 39 suggests the attack to be nuclear. Things are certainly falling into place and 2014 is not disqualified by anything as the start of Ezekiel 38-39. If not our current present, the “any-minute” Rapture would certainly trigger Ezekiel 38-39.
Thanks, Don.
Mex,
Did you even read the article that was in my last comment and what I linked to as a reference in that article? If you did you should know that these eclipses are not as rare events as some are claiming.
Read this. http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2013/07/12/lunar-eclipses-cause-blood-moons
You also are quite wrong, Bible prophecy is always 100 percent accurate. All God given prophecy in the past has been fulfilled as written.
Russia has a lot of military building to do before it can deliver any great army to the Middle East, it certainly cannot happen in 2014, in fact, that army will not be ready this decade. The Ezekiel war is likely to be nuclear but there also will be a great army of men coming against the land of Israel.
There also is no biblical reason to believe that the Rapture “will” happen at any minute, it certainly could be more than a decade off. I think your belief in the meaning of eclipses that will not even be visible from Israel is clouding your judgment. Don’t believe everything you read in some book or hear from some Bible prophecy circuit teacher without checking out the facts for yourself.
I read your article. It’s true that Tetrads are common, but the Tetrads which eclipses occur specifically on Pesach and Sukkot on both years are few: 1492, 1949, 1967, and 2014 are the only “Jewish” ones since the 1st century. After 2014 there will be no more “Jewish” Tetrads for the next 500 years. All the “Jewish” Tetrads have involved wars. 1492 was the expulsion of all Jews from Spain. You know about 1949 and 1967.
I’ve heard the counter argument that the eclipses have not been viewable from Israel, but that doesn’t change the fact that they occurred on Jewish Feast Days.
I think and rethink my position, but I just consider the pattern of the “Jewish” Tetrads involving Israel’s significant milestones specifically related to its prophetic reconstruction. In 1949, the Jews finally won the war and established the government and created the law to give automatic citizenship to any Jew that immigrated. in 1967 they got full control over Jerusalem. So, if Israel doesn’t take control over the Temple Mount in 2014, it’s just breaking a pattern.
Today, it seems impossible that Israel would take over the Temple Mount. But Ezekiel 37 asks “Can these bones live?” Who in their sane mind would’ve said in 1945: “In 3 years the world map will include the nation of Israel?”
As far as Russia, just last year Putin was named the most powerful man. The USA, the defenders of Israel, has been telegraphing unwillingness to defend them and reluctance to get involved and keeps appeasing Israel’s enemies which has the effect of encouraging them.
I believe that Rapture could occur any minute and if it happens between Pesach and Sukkot the attacks will not delay to follow. The USA will lose the most population because of the larger Christian demographics. Muslim countries will not suffer such a crisis as the US and recover a lot faster and jump at the opportunity. Russia may not be all militarily ready, but that’s why they would make a coalition of willing nations. We all read in the newspapers about Russians courting of Islamic countries. Iran, Syria, and other Islamic countries are today in bed with the Russians. The only trip Putin made to Israel was to negotiate the extraction of natgas recently found in Israel. Israel made a deal with the Australians and not Russia. I think everything is in place and Israel is more and more isolated.
The Great Tribulation is nothing to desire. I don’t wish it although I know we will not be here for it. I do not form a doctrine with this. But I think this is how it would go down and I would only change my mind only if nothing happens before October of this year, 2014.
I really don’t follow anyone on this. I make my own mind. I’m checking things about the same way I read and appreciate your work. There is a great consensus about the Tetrads. The difference is where the Rapture and the Temple Amount items will go down.
Thanks again.
Mex,
If the eclipses are common and happened scores of times in the last one hundred years according to the documented science in the article that I linked to, I do not know how you can say they will not happen again for the next 500 years? http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2013/07/12/lunar-eclipses-cause-blood-moons
The problem is that the people you are quoting don’t really know what they are talking about. They do not possess an ounce of knowledge about astronomy, they just try to shoehorn in something to fit their dating theories.
Full moon Eclipses in the fall and spring equinox always occur on Jewish feast days. Did you even comprehend the article that you say you read? What in the world are Jewish Tetrads? All the word “Tetrad” means is the sum of three and one (four). There will be four Eclipses in the next two years but that is not unusual and there is nothing Jewish about them. As I said, they will not even be seen in Israel. They certainly are not any fulfillment of Bible prophecy.
Israel had control of the temple mount in 1967 but they gave it up to the Arabs. There is no reason to think that Israel now holds the mount in such high regard that they would start a war over control of it.
The Russians cannot possibly put together the armies mention in Ezekiel within a few months, it simply is not possible and it is not going to happen. First Israel has to be living in peace and security anyway according to Ezekiel. Do you really think Israel can have peace and security and also have the start of the Gog war within the next six months? That is not logical. So once again the date setters will be proved wrong and discredit serious Bible prophecy teachers.
Maybe in a small fringe minority there is a consensus about the meaning of the eclipses. However, the same people have always been wrong for as long as I can remember. I will go on record and say there are wrong again. We won’t have long to find out. So once again I will ask the early date setters to apologies for misleading people when they are proven wrong. However, they never do, they just go on to the next speculation.
I really hate seeing Christians getting sucked into believing the latest pop nonsense. If Christians want to know anything about the future they ought to study Bible prophecy and not read tea leaves.