“The Shack”, by William P. Young is still a hugely popular and very deceptive book that is likely to become a movie. Those that believe there is a Christian message or theme in this book are totally deceived and must not believe biblical doctrine themselves at all. The book presents another God, another Christ, and another path to salvation. “The Shack” really promotes “New Age” all paths Universalism much like A.A. which itself was founded by a man who got messages from the occult. The book is blasphemous toward God presuming to speak for God while actually promoting a “Queen of Heaven” type God that does not exist.
This pluralistic theme where many paths lead to the same God is now being promoted everywhere thanks to A.A., other 12 step programs, and the postmodern redefining of Christianity by high profile religious and secular media figures. Nevertheless, no true Christian should be sucked into such an unbiblical “New Age” postmodern concept. There is only one way to the Father (not the mother) according to the teaching of the only God/Man that ever walked the earth. That way is only through Jesus Christ as He is defined in the Bible and not as Jesus is redefined in the light of “New Age” demonic darkness.
Any Christian leader promoting “The Shack” should be immediately removed from their position because they are promoting doctrines of demons and the lie of the adversary that leads people to Hell.
Christian Worldview Network – Brannon Howse – The Shack is A.A.’s higher power.
According to the author, the god of The Shack dwells in everybody, and apparently does not condemn any to eternal punishment—or, as The Shack would address this, “She does not punish anyone.” The novel’s “christ” is the “best way” to salvation, but apparently not the only way.
What about Alcoholics Anonymous? The A.A. Big Book states, “We found that God does not make too hard terms with those who seek Him. To us, the Realm of Spirit is broad, roomy, all inclusive; never exclusive or forbidding to those who earnestly seek. It is open, we believe, to all men. When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God.”[19] According to the A.A. Big Book, God is “deep down within us.”
Thus are the seeds of the New Age planted in the soil of both The Shack and Alcoholics Anonymous. The tentacles of various heresies are reaching out and linking. The false “christ” of The Shack seems poised to be welcomed into, or serve as a catalyst for, emergent/contemplative/12 Step Spirituality.
Many Christians have superimposed their beliefs upon The Shack, supposing it a novel written by a Biblical Christian. As James De Young and others have pointed out, this is not necessarily the case. Over the decades, many Christians have also jackhammered their God into AA’s anti-Biblical system
I wish I was a fly on the wall to hear that discussion.
I wrote a lengthy review on “The Shack” addressing the controversies
If the focus of your faith is a relationship with God The Shack will be wonderful. If your focus is on legalism, then The Shack will disappoint.
I like the over all theme that takes God out o the box–Don’t worry about yesterday or fret over tomorrow. Enjoy God now. He has it all in control. Surrender to Christ and walk in joy.
The link you had in your comment was reported by my software as an attack site so it was taken out. If you don’t know why it would be listed that way I suggest you find out.
If the focus of your faith is the real God of the Bible “The Shack is heresy and blasphemy. If people who believe the Bible are legalistic then all Bible Believers are legalistic and those like you who do not see the Bible as absolute truth have redefined the Bible into saying anything they want it to say. Thus you have created your own God.
When postmodern New Age teachings like “The Shack” talk about Christ they are really talking about one of many people who have reached christhood not the one Son of God who created all things and saves the world by taking away sin to all who come to Him for their salvation. They do not say that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the only way to salvation they might say He is one of the ways or the best way. Believing that Jesus is the only way is not legalism it is the gospel.
Don,
I want to thank you for featuring several of my articles on your site. I have just set up a blog, don’t really know what I am doing, but hope this is pleasing to the King. I believe it is His will. I heard Jan Markell’s show on The Shack, and one of her guests pointed out that there is a goddess actually named….Papa! Maori in origin, I believe (New Zealand is about 2000 miles from where the author of The Shack lived as a child in New Guinea.)
He is the King,
John Lanagan
Hi John,
It is always my pleasure to post blogs that expose the end time heresies that are confusing Christians not mature in the faith and misleading the world to embrace postmodern “New Age” concepts of God. Post your link when you get your blog rolling and I will put it in my sidebar or email me. You will find my email address under Don Koenig the author on the top of the sidebar.
I thank you for writing these articles to keep us informed.
Blessings in Christ,
Don
So who are you the Osama Bin Laden of the Christian world. Get off the cross we need the wood. The only God you know is the one you know. You cant define god for anyone else and when you do i can call you an extremist cause you are. Shame on you for bashing AA which has helped many recover from alcoholism and other faiths that arent Christian that do many great things for others. I think you are just mad cause you cant do anything about this inclusive belief. I will pray for you that your mind opens.
There is only God and that is the one I know. Actually I can define God for anyone, read the links below. If they do not define God for you it is because you choose to remain hostile toward Him without cause.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/theonlyway.HTM
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/How%20one%20is%20saved.htm
I did not say that AA cannot help unbelievers get off alcohol dependence. I am saying that AA in not the method that Christians should be using to get off alcohol dependence. You yourself admit that it is a inclusive belief. No Christian should be involved in inclusive beliefs. We are called out to be separate from the world.
I speak about AA among other things in this article below. You can find that info about half way down the article in the Psychology section. You will also find a couple of links within the article that give more information on the occult roots of AA.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/The%20woman%20on%20the%20beast%20in%20end%20time%20prophecy%20has%20dominion%20theology.htm
Thank God for your article. I attended AA as a born again Christian. At first, it seemed like it was the answer. I had a relapse and was told by AA that it was because I stopped going to meetings and did not have a sponsor. I ended up in Detox for 5 days, came out and returned straight back to AA. That is when I really started to feel something was not right.
I kept thinking that I had prayed to God for healing and I was healed, by faith in Christ. Yet AA still kept telling me I will never be healed and will drink again if I stop attending. Then I joined a Big Book Study and became depressed each week it was time to go. I started feeling uneasy about it all. I soon heard people talking about other members and making fun of their relapses…saying things like so and so has a pocket full of new comer chips. Yet they would rush the person and give them all these hugs. I heard people curse the likes of which just pained me. Taking the Lords name in vain. It was like a social hour. People would talk about all the other drugs they were on while proclaiming AA saved them……And for a while, I was going around telling people that everyone should be in AA just for the love and support……
Then I slowly begin to discern that I was amongst people not right. And, God has since been showing me that I may have a gift for discernment as well. Anyway, I left AA and have not had a drink sense…almost 9 months. No one ever called or checked on me, yet these were the same people telling me what I needed and that it was them and AA.
I think God sent me to AA for a reason no doubt. But I credit God and only God with my recovery. I do not need AA or any 12 step program. If God has healed me and I return to man’s way, then that is a slap in the face to God.
Lastly, I also noted that although every meeting I attended was held in a church, I could not find any members who actually attended the church. Nor, were they ever any pastors or church leaders conducting meetings. That also seemed odd to me. And just last night for some reason I was thinking about this, and today I just happen to read this article. So, you see for me, God provides all the encouragement, support, open doors, etc. that I will ever need.
Oh, one more thing, I am NOT an alcoholic. Maybe I once was, maybe I just had no faith and became a heavy drinker. Whatever people want to label me, that is fine. For I am a child of God. And I did say that at one of the meetings and I hushed up the room.
If you want to stop drinking, ask God, if he sends you to AA, try and discern the teachings, observe the people and then ask God to show you how to stop. He will. He did.
God bless.
Thanks for the testimony it correctly points out the problems with AA.
Children of God are not alcoholics, homosexuals, sex addicts, drug addicts etc. unless they themselves choose to live in bondage to the lusts of their flesh.
AA does not allow pastors of the churches they meet in to facilitate their meeting and that is understandable since it is a worldly organization. Pastors and church board often allow them to meet on their facilities as a community service or because they know some of their members have problems with alcohol but that shows lack of Christian discernment and knowledge of Christian methods to deal with these sin problems.
Don
We have chatted before and I hope you dont really believe that it is an attack to believe different from you. I remember one email where you actually thought it would be a good idea to go into some bookstores and pull some books out and burn them. I hope you get arrested if you try. Have to change your name to Taliban Don, cause you arent any better if you do those things. And for the life of me why would you criticize AA, a program of spirtual principles. Irrelevant if it doesnt stand up to your test of your God. You may think you can define God for others but talk about being decieved, WOW. Want nothing to do with your god and I think the main reason you are upset is you cant do anything about this finding a god of your own understanding. I wish you no harm but I will see you in the streets if you start trying to burn books pal.
Peace
Michael
Quit your damn lying or you will be banned from my Blogs.
I said that early Christians burned heretical and pagan books and obviously those were the books they owned. I did not encourage anyone to go to book stores and burn books. But I do encourage Christians to destroy heretical and demonic books so that others will not pick them up and be deceived by them. Who really gives a damn what those who choose to be blinded read. You cannot be deceived and any more lost than you already are.
I guess you did not read the previous post by Jacky or the links I gave you, or maybe you could not retrain what I said in the other conversation. AA spiritual principles are not Christan. The AA program was started by a person heavily influenced by the occult and the program encourages religious pluralism and that is not at all compatible with true Christianity.
There is only one God and it is not your concept of God versus my concept of God. It is the God that He reveled in the Bible. If you expect anti christian concepts to be accepted by Christians perhaps you will be better received at a heretic’s site.
Don
I feel sorry for you. Sounds like your concept is the right one huh. Maybe for you it is and thats cool. Anything you quote from the bible can be reinterperted to mean something else so get of the cross man we need the wood. Go ahead ban me I dont need to read your BS anyway.
You are man with a temper who could be dangerous but probably not because there isnt anything you can do about folks who call you on your BS. Pretty sad man, pretty sad.
Michael
What is sad is that when people like you are given the truth about Jesus being the only way to God they reject it and attack the messenger.
You choose to be without hope in this world and in eternity and there is nothing sadder than that. Only those who never met the Savior can reinterpret the clear teaching in the Bible to fit their own concepts. I am not on the cross since I am risen with Christ, but you need to put yourself there and die to self and trust in Jesus for salvation or your soul certainly will die.
Another sad thing is you have no excuse. You will not be able to claim that you never heard the truth. If you had any real answers for people you would not be looking for answers in AA. You think you can go from one nasty habit of the flesh to to a religious adviser in one shot (pun intended).
Here is a link from someone out of your background who will help you to understand the issues if you are opened to hear them.
http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/bio.php/193/John_Lanagan
Don, Thanks for another enlightening post. I agree with you on the subject of AA and the Shack both creating a god that is not the same as The God of the bible. I believe it is a dangerous path for anyone truly seeking salvation. However, I would like to point out that in early AA it was required that new members turn their lives and will over to Christ. It was not until later that they decided to replace Christ with “A god of our own understanding” so that they did not disclude anyone from the program. I do not profess to know alot about the Oxford group, but I do know that regular bible study was part of the “original” AA program. As for Bill W.’s “spiritual awakening”, I believe he was giving an honest account of his experience. I do not believe that an experience such as his cancels his Christianity any more than another person’s lack of a similar experience cancels theirs.
I have spent many years in 12 step programs and have found them essential to my own personal recovery. It was through personal crisis and 12 step programs that I became saved, something that no Christian in my life was able to help me do. I would argue that if you feel called to point out the Truth of the Gospel, and how people can be deceived through a “Christian lite” program, do so with caution. Although I believe with your overall point, I feel it is important to remember that although there is only one path to salvation, there are many ways for God to prepare a heart.
Michael, If you are still hanging around, please realize that legalism is not pointing out that a “god of anyone’s understanding” may not be the “real” God. I believe that Don’s and John’s point comes down to whether or not you are not chasing another “high”. Truth is not and cannot be open to our own interpretation, nor can God. If he is God, then he should have characteristics of God, not man.
A watered down god that is likeable to everyone is dangerous indeed, and the danger lies in believing that you can take your own concept of the real God, and find salvation through this “created” being. From our own minds and hearts come the most heinous thoughts, desires and deeds. It is those same thoughts, desires and deeds that have led many to 12 step programs. (For those of you who are part of these programs, and have found recovery through them, by all means DO NOT STOP) But just be careful in thinking that the “god” you create in your own mind is the same God of Salvation.
Some of the things you said have me concerned for the condition of your relationship with God, but that is between you and Him. If you are not sure, I would encourage you to seek who God is through prayer and see where he leads you. And please check out the history of the God of the rooms.
Betty
Betty I disagree on your position on Bill Wilson. Some AA programs higher power is Jesus and others are whoever. It used to depend on the make up of the neighborhood. Bill Wilson was into channeling spirits and was also influenced by Yung and the Oxford group.
Read this documentation on AA by Dave Hunt.
http://www.raptureready.com/resource/hunt/dh2.html
Hi Don,
I have several old fashioned book sources that I will dig out to support my position. I cannot personally attest to Bill W.’s salvation as being true or not, however Dr Bob, co-founder of AA was a Christian, and it was a requirement of the original Oxford Movement that created the foundation for the 12 step movement, that participants place their faith in Jesus Christ. It was not Bill W who was responsible for the removal of this practice. That was another Dr. whose name eludes me.
I do not deny that the current 12 step program set-up is watered down to include all, and consequently dangerous as a potential alternative to salvation. However, it does not claim to be a Christian program in the first place. Those of us who are aware of its history take seriously the original intent of a life that is renewed because of Christ, and no other “spiritual awakening”.
And once again I beg to argue that this program helped me recover enough to open my heart to salvation, and for that reason it should not be dismissed.
Many have found recovery and salvation in the rooms, and few have found recovery in the church and not all church attendees are saved, does that mean they should stop going?
I have alot of respect for your work and writings, but I fear, my brother, you are too quick to attempt to shoot down anyone who opposes your view. As many pages and sources you can find to support your theory, I can find alternates to support mine. Being a lady, I have no desire to get into a “contest” with you.
The two points I was attempting to make were:
I agree with your cautioning people following a “god of their understanding”
And, I, and many more like me have come to Christ through the very programs you lament.
I caution you sir, in your desire to be right, that you may alienate many who need so desperately to hear your words.
Once again, there IS ONLY ONE WAY to Salvation: Placing life and faith in Christ. God can use more than one path to lead His people to him.
Please keep up your good works, and pray for empathy. Non believers are not stupid, they are blind, they cannot be anything else UNTIL they are saved. Please handle with care.
Betty
All I am going to say is that people get delivered from sin all the time. They do not have to learn a methodology that was received from a demon to get delivered. The Oxford group was also heretical.
The program of Bill Wilson did not help you find Jesus. The people in your group helped you find Jesus or Jesus found you. It is like saying the bar had people in it that helped you find Jesus so bars help people find Jesus.
Don, OK, you are right, Jesus found me, the Christians I knew were self-righteous and condescending, and because of that I wanted nothing to do with Christ or God.
Bill W’s program provided a come as you are opportunity to heal from the damage done to me by Christians and non-Christians alike. And then I was able to get to know a God who was reflected through the people in the program. Noone in the program ever talked to me about Christ. If they had, I would have left.
Perhaps that best explains my position.
Betty
Getting back to my other point, when you are running an end times commentary, you have to be prepared to deal firmly but carefully with the opposition that will definately come. Again, the opposition are spiritually blind. What good is your site or commentary if it only serves those who agree with you, or are saved? I am concerned that I shared this site with the unsaved too soon. The truth must be said, but pride and arrogance will not reach a single reader for Christ. Perhaps I misunderstood your mission?
Please, pray about this. I will lift you up in prayer.
There are many principals of the AA program that make it totally possible to lead others to Christ without ever uttering a word about faith. It is called attraction rather than promotion, and it works. Few people even know my faith until they ask. And trust me, they ask.
There are many out there who are in the grips of the enemy, and God wishes that none shall perish. Please take a moment and pray before responding to any person who is clearly unsaved. Rules without relationship does breed resentment.
I say this as another who has a quick tongue and faster typing.
God Bless! and good night.
Betty
the attraction rather than promotion comment was out of context because it is way past my bedtime. Maybe I will be able to make better sense in the morning 🙂
Betty
Don’t bother, you are wasting my time. I do not need to be lectured by your false presumptions of knowing what your talking about. I also do not need to be told what I should be praying for like you are my spiritual authority. You are totally out of line. If that offends you do not be so damned offensive.
GO BETTY GO!…Don’s ego felt threatened…He’ll now probably give me hell too…so much for Christian love and compassion..oh that’s right..Don will only love you if you agree with him…Get a grip!
It is amazing how people think they can read my mind. So much for those who make false accusers.
Let me explain something to you all. I only keep these blogs open for comment so you can add useful helpful information. I have thousands of posts and I cannot take the time to debate everyone who disagrees with some issue I post. Obviously on any issue there are going to be some who disagree. This blog is not for endless debate. If you want that go to a BB forum or chat site that debates the issues you are interested in. This blog is about world and Church trends and Bible prophecy. The issue on this particular post is about the world and church trend to believe that God is like the god of the Shack and AA’s higher power.
By the way Dave, personal attacks and baiting people on my blogs will get you banned. Love and compassion for others who read my posts really means that I keep the issues focused on the posted issue and not let it degenerate into a place where everyone can come here and post their infantile remarks. If necessary I will monitor all comments and only post the ones that are fitting. Just because I do not do that now does not mean that I will not also have to take that same route that almost all bloggers have had to take because of people just like you.
Dave, be careful. My words truly felt led. I am not certain I am right. Don has a valuable site here, and may not have much experience with the unsaved.
Don, I respect the fact that you do not have time for debate. I cannot imagine how much time your research takes. I think that the beauty of a blog such as this is it allows the opportunity for prayerfully led debate. I only ask you consider that before shutting someone down. I still believe in your skills, but think your site could serve a greater cause in reaching the unsaved. Perhaps I can help in that aspect. I would certainly be willing. We are all part of the same body. If you are willing to consider my words, please feel free to contact me.
You can email me anytime.
God Bless,
Betty
Don, I am sorry that I stated my concerns publically. I had no right to do that, and by doing so have allowed an opportunity for comments such as Dave’s. Because I am certain my deeds were wrong, I believe I should publically for your forgiveness. I am still young in my faith with less than 10 years, and should have emailed you personally with my concerns.
I pray my indiscretion does not detract from my sincerity.
Betty
Betty your last comment was delete because it was totally inappropriate. I also do not think or see how you can help this blog reach the unsaved. The purpose of this Blog is more for Christian education on end time issues then it is for evangelism. Having said that, telling the truth here about what is coming on the world will bring some to Christ when they realize there is no hope in the world apart from the Savior. There are many methods of evangelism. The ministry of a watchman is not the same as that of a Pastor teacher. My website has articles that will point people toward salvation if they have ears to hear and links in my comments will refer those to salvation issues if there is any indication that they are opened to it.
This is the last off topic comment I will entertain on this post.
what comment was deleted? my apology? I still see all the comments I have made thusfar.
Betty
wow! what contreversy. in my opinion, and that is all it is…people who do not have experience with the horrible disease of alcoholism really can’t understand our dilema. i strugled with addiction for 16 years and almost died several times for my disease. i was finally sent to a treatment program for the 5th time;however, this one was christian based. they taught us the bible as well as the 12 steps of aa. they also linked the message between recovery and christianity. we went to a very large church that strickly focused on the bible, the truth, and applied it to our lives. i was so sick when i got to treatment and aa that there was no way i could have wrapped my mind around the bible or God. i had to find hope and i found that thru seeing that recovery was possible , as well as happiness, by watching others that had been thru the same hell i had. it was thru aa that i started to recover and begin my spiritual quest with God. the same God of the bible…thru Jesus Christ. as i was able to stay clean by going to meetings…my relationship with God began to grow, as well as my faith. i began to read and inquire about the bible. we had 2 bible studies a week as well as going to church on sundays. it was thru treatment and aa that i was able to be connected with God. i have since continued my personal relationship with God as well as reading His word and discovering the Truth. i have been clean and sober for over a year now and i still go to aa and am very active in that fellowship as well as church. i have been givin the opportunity to start helping other women and have since started school to get my degree in substance asuse counseling. i went from not being able to go one hour without using drugs to not even thinking about it. there is a lot of aspects to this disease and i would be here all day if i tried to explain it all. people that have been thru it know exactly what i am talking about and that is why i desire to help other “hopeless” cases as myself. it is only by the grace of God that i am sober today and i am truely grateful. the Big Book states that “we only have a daily repreive contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition” i have to do what i did yesterday to stay sober today and that includes aa, praying, readin God’s word, and helpin others. i can only keep what i have by giving it away. thank u 4 lettin me share!!!!
Thanks for sharing that. Don’t get me wrong, AA is the best anti addiction program the world has ever come up with. But true deliverance from what drives people to addictions comes from salvation in Jesus Christ.
I love this blog where everyone gets their say. I also appreciate that you do not waver, Don, when it comes to issues like The Shack and Alcoholics Anonymous. That’s because you open the Bible and read what He says. The 12 Step system is the dominant religion in America–it is a religion that allows “the god of many understandings” as homosexual Bishop Eugene Robinson has noted.
Robinson, in fact, for his invocation an a presidential inagural event this coming Sunday, says he may use this 12 Step language. He says he has found former inaugural invocations way too “Christian.”
Christians involved in A.A. generally have A.A. as an idol–there is a transference of faith that takes place. Jesus is not enough, the Steps supposedly always have to be involved.
Well, they will be. They surely will be. As, at the least, the prototype for the coming One World religion.
God bless all of you. Here is an article on Rapture Ready that bluntly addresses the disobedience of Christians worshiping in A.A.
http://www.raptureready.com/soap/lanagan2.html
By the way, A.A. cofounder Bill Wilson’s grandfather was given sobriety by Christ as he stood on a mountain outside his town. He marched down into church and testified. He was sober until his death.
John
Just a note that Michael lost all credibility when he refused to acknowledge Don’s explanation and assertion that he never advised going into book stores, i.e. other people’s property, and pulling and burning books.
Michael, if you want to point out the speck/plank, whatever in another’s eye, then you need to be honest and admit when you get things wrong or show good will in accepting another’s reasonable explanation.
When you don’t do such things, then you are acting like what you claim to criticize.
Burning, or simply put, getting rid of one’s own possessions [for whatever reason – whether because of religious motivation or just for organizaiton’s sakes] is totally legitimate and is not a rational basis to claim the person also wants people to go and destroy other’s private property.
That’s extreme. You are the one promoting an extremist view.
AA is nowhere near as effective as the faith based Reformers Unanimous program.
Going to Church on wensday and Sunday night and finding a Bible Study on Tuesday night will help to beat back addictions. Jesus saves and never lets go even when I tried to wiggle away from Him.
AA is for quiters and Jesus is for sinners
I believe that is correct.. Bill W.s father did remain sober..thru the power of Jesus Christ. I have been sober 5 yrs. in A.A…I have come across A.A. members who are downright mean spirited..and really into gossip..or downright character assassination and when they speak at meetings sound so kind and like they really “Work the program”…but, I have come across some who seem to be “working the program” but those seem few and few in between…..Some member think it is a popularity contest…alos, God forbid if you mention God……one member said to be ..”You shouldnt give God all the credit” to me an absurd statement…I give God the credit.It is a miracle that I am sober for 5 yrs. Anyway, I do get disgusted more and more about A.A. and they way it is today..I do beleive it is getting more and More “New Age” as time goes on. I read the “Shack” and did not feel right about the book..Couldnt exactly put my finger on it..but, I understand now….I beleive Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.. I will never in a million years give up my belief in Jesus….They say if you stop going to meetings and stop associating with A.A. you will get drunk…I am really sick of the whole thing..A>A.
Thank you, Christian Worldview Network for comments – related to AA’s higher power.
In my book “Remembering True Love,” a published Christian memoir. I share my experiences in Al-Anon 12 step programs. As a Christian writer and poet. I have learned that when “Believers” earnestly speak trueness, concerning AA’s occult religion. Often their books are rejected, by Secular Radio talk shows.
Such as, in August, 2010. I received a call from a well known talk show in CT,to talk about my book on addiction.
I waited a few day, and prayed about my decision.
I then, decided to attend. I later accepted the invite, and phoned the Station to confirm. The Holy Spirit revealed to me, the reason my invite was cancelled.
Indeed, Believers who write their forthright experiences, are declined when writing about AA’s occult gods.
I believe my Christain memoir will continually reach the hearts of families, among the thorns of addictions.
Christians must never stop trying to reach Believers, in AA’s “circles of hope.” True Believers need to know the truth, related to AA’s “One World Religion.”
Ideed, its religion is well protected, by “Secular Radio Shows.”
Let’s keep the faithful calling, that God has placed on our hearts.
Please, share my reply with others.
Sincerely,
Carrie Keeton
dear all,just reading this site,and found it very interesting,ive been sober in aa for over 28 years,and read lots of stuff like this before,fact is i coudnt stop drinking untill i belive god sent me to aa , some 4 years later i got bapisted and asked jesus to forgive me of my sins,i have attended church and been involed as i have in aa, ive observed plenty of people both in aa and churches who havnt lived up to gods standards, myself being one of them, thats why christ came and died for us ,all have sinned,i agree that jesus is the only way to heaven,some one once said ,aa wont get you to heaven and it wont stop you going to hell but it will help you get sober to make up your own mind.iv seen some leave aa stay sober in church, but iv seen some leave aa go to church and drink a gain.what do i know , im saved by gods grace. goeff summers