When Jews build their temple and start animal sacrifices they will soon be stopped by the uproar coming form the animal rights movement. According to Daniel the daily sacrifice will be taken away and eventually this ritual will be replaced by worship of a image set up in the temple. We can now easily see how a law or judicial ruling will force the ceasing of the daily sacrifice almost as soon as it begins.
Animal rights groups against Passover sacrifice – Israel Jewish Scene, Ynetnews
The Temple movements’ intention to hold a public slaughter of the Passover sacrifice was slammed by the animal rights movement, Let Animals Live.The activists demanded that the event’s coordinators cancel their plans, and sent letters to Jerusalem Mayor Uri Lupolianski, and to the Director of the Temple Institute, Yehuda Glick, threatening to sue if their demands were not met within 24 hours.
It is unbelievable that people living in the modern world would even consider the religious slaughter of innocent animals. These ancient Bronze Age laws found in the torah have NO place in decent society. The country of Israel should be ashamed to even consider the revival of such savage barbaric customs from the ancient world. We don’t need gods that require slaughter as a means of appeasement, and we don’t need a temple that is nothing more than a slaughter house with priests for butchers. The world is already violent enough without adding this kind of egregious savage behavior!
See what I mean? There are those around like Carl that will go ballistic over Israel performing animal sacrifices.
I don’t know what is so unbelievable about slaughtering animals for food? Most people in the world eat slaughtered animals for food. The animals killed at the Temple were food for the Jewish priests and also for the people attending the Jewish festival when millions of people came to Jerusalem. People traveling do have to eat you know. You ought to see what takes place in the slaughter houses to just provided those hundred million hamburgers to McDonald’s each day.
I also wonder if you can explain the difference between a innocent animal for food and a non innocent animal for food? Does that include innocent and non innocent fish?
God never needed the slaughter of animals as a means of appeasement. The slaughter of animals was to show man that his sin had consequences. Sin brought suffering into the world. Humans did not eat meat before the fall of man. The blood of animals was just a symbolic covering for sin until the time that God himself would provided the perfect Lamb sacrifice that would take away the sins of the world. Jesus was the Creator and Lamb of God that suffered and died and took our sins upon himself so that anyone that believes in His righteousness to atone for this fallen creation could be saved into His redemption.
Also, the whole Jewish animal sacrificial system was set up in direct contrast to the pagan customs of that day that did try to appease their angry gods by sacrificing the blood of their innocent children on the alters of demons.
So why will Israel again slaughter animals in the Temple before Jesus returns? Because they do not understand that their Messiah already came and fulfilled the requirements of the Law. A law that was given to lead them to Christ and not eternal sacrifices to appease God.
Ya’ know Carl, I love my dogs dearly so I’m not unsympathetic, however, there was a time when The Living God required it for the reasons that Don mentioned and through Israels denying of the Messiah, it is necessary for it to happen again.
You say, “We don’t need gods that require X”…well, I need The Living And True God, I am here for whatever he asks of me.
And Carl, you call this a “decent” society ?
Really ?
If you want something to get upset about…you’ll find plenty of egregious, savage, behavior daily in our human society…just watch the news.
Yeah, Just read the news today where mobs are running around our cities acting like a bunch of savages. Come to think of it the violence and debauchery in our civilized society is even worse than it was in ancient barbaric days. But let’s cry for the innocent animals that have always been food for predators since the fall and enable the human predictors that prey on innocent humans since the fall.
I think you miss the point entirely, Don. As long as humans eat at the table of violence, they will continue to be violent. Those who will kill the animals will also kill one another. Look to the root of the human plight. It is in their willingness to callously slaughter the innocent, just because they can. Those same people are responsible for the wars, the murders, and the thuggery that goes on in society. It starts with how they are willing to treat the most vulnerable among us. Animal slaughter is the greatest holocaust in all history, and as long as humans are willing to allow such brutality to continue, there is no hope. It is sad that religion contributes to this kind of massacre rather than speak out against it. Such a religion is worthless.
David, you didn’t read what I said very carefully. I would be the last person to claim that we live in a “decent” society. As long as humans slaughter the animals with impunity, our society will remain barbaric. Gandhi said: “As long as they murder the animals, they will continue to murder each other,” and he was correct. Even the religions of this culture condone massive savage slaughter of innocent animals, and the religious folks gnaw the flesh off the bones of dead animals like wild beasts in the jungle. If that’s the best we can do, then religion has failed and mankind is hopeless. Western religion cannot even awaken compassion in its adherents. They will never show each other compassion as long as they murder innocent animals and eat the dead carcasses.
Don, the fact that people have slaughtered animals for centuries does not make it right. There are many barbaric practices that went on over long periods of human history that we don’t condone today. Take slavery as an example. It was commonly accepted for centuries, and your religious books accepted it. In the American South, the churches used the Bible to justify their custom of slave trade, and the Southern Baptist church was founded for that very purpose. That didn’t make it right. Acceptance by the majority or using Bronze Age religious texts will not make a barbaric practice right or just. Your Christ was judged wrong and mocked by the majority as well as by the religious authorities. Think just a bit.
David, if you love dogs so “dearly,” why limit that love to one species. If you would protect your dog from abuse, what makes your dog different from any other animal? Do you not think that other animals feel the same fear and pain when subjected to the same kind of mistreatment? If you truly love dogs, then it should follow that you must have compassion for all sentient beings. Don’t harm other living souls, especially for food. It is unnecessary and does harm to yourself as a person. It leads to one’s “conscience being seared with a hot iron,” as I once read somewhere.
Carl,
God said that man can eat animals and we know Jesus did and He did not sin, so He is the moral authority on what man is permitted to eat. All animals on this earth suffer and die in case you have not noticed. That will continue to happen whether humans eat animals or not. Life and death includes plant life as well so some just want man to quit eating and die. However, even if there was not one human on earth, animals and plants would continue to live and die.
The real problem is that we live in a fallen world. God did not create suffering and death in His creation. Death is the result of sin coming into His creation. You seem to think that if man would just stop eating animals that he would return to the nature that he had before the fall. You have the cart before the horse. Man first must be restored by dying to his fallen body of earthly flesh and living through the Spirit that man receives through faith in his Creator. (That paid for our sins Himself.) Now we who believe can be born from Above into a new creation that Jesus spoke into existence when He rose from the dead. There will be no more sin, suffering or death for those that enter this body of Christ by trusting in God’s righteousness to save.
Through Jesus, creation will be restored to perfection as it was before the fall. Through Jesus, sin and death and suffering will no longer exist in creation. It will not come through man trying to pretend that he can restore his lost nature by just following a man made formula of what one can eat or what one must do to put on the nature of God. Man is not going to become non violent by trying to be non violent when it is our very earthly sin nature to be violent predators. We first must be redeemed into creatures born from above and then realize this vessel we still occupy has it’s earthly needs. But that all will end when the vessel returns to dust and our spirit goes to be with God.
You seem to think that Christianity is the only hope of changing the world, and yet, Christianity has been around for nearly 2,000 years, and its history of one of Crusades, Inquisition, genocide, torture, burnings, war, violence, ignorance, and superstition. It hasn’t made people better, but given them reason to justify horrible behavior. We tried Christianity. It was called THE DARK AGES!
I understand your theory about being “born from above,” but what good does that do if you remain without compassion?
Didn’t the fictional Jesus say: “You will know them by their fruits”?? I’ve seen the fruits of Christianity in the hate filled faces of the Christians. No Thanks!
Jesus Christ is the only hope for changing the world because only He changes the fallen nature of man. You confuse institutions that call themselves Christendom with true Christianity which is based on believing in the promises of God in His Messiah.
My point is that no religion can make people better. Man must be born again from above by God or he is doomed to destruction. True Christian doctrine tells those with ears to hear how they can be saved. By what you said in your anti Christian diatribe (that will not get posted, read my commenting policy on the top bar) I see that you are very hostile toward the God of the Bible. So I certainly am not going to spit into the wind or cast pearls before those who like to wallow in the lies of people that hate God and love to flaunt their own self righteousness to others as if they were God.
By the way, you never tried Christianity and neither has most of the world, because unbelievers can never try the fulfillment of a promise from God that comes through trusting in Him.
Carl,
It appears to me that you are one who does not approve of the way God himself does business…in fact, it sounds to me that your a vegetarian and an atheist…is that correct ?
I would encourage you to seek man’s only hope, the Lord God Almighty. Your at a good website here that can teach you much.
And, for the record, I do have compassion for all of God’s living creatures…even insects to a point.
Because some Christians eat meat does not mean they do not have compassion. Jesus talks about compassion and mercy for humans because humans were created in the image of God and made to be eternal. Animals were created for man. So if you think you are a compassionate person and you hate humans because they eat temporal creations given by God for them to eat you are self deceived.
In proper context Jesus said that you will know false prophets by their fruits. He certainly was not talking about those eating fish and I think the hate filled faces of Christians that you claim to have seen is really just a figment of your very own brainwashing. You really have seen no such thing from true Christians.
David: “And, for the record, I do have compassion for all of God’s living creatures…even insects to a point.”
Carl: What does your religion say about lying, David? If you eat dead animals, then you certainly do NOT have compassion for animals. You may have a pet that you consider your own, and therefore your love for that pet is love for yourself, but when you eat dead animals that have been slaughtered for that purpose, you are not demonstrating compassion, but rather callous disregard for suffering. Think!
It looks to me that Carl has done an excellent job of displaying some of the rhetoric attacks that will be levied against Christians in the name of Humanism and the “answer” to all, the apostate World Church.
Carl, the only way to quell your anger for the ills of this world is to seek the Lord God Almighty, there is no other answer.
Yeah David and you did not see a third of it, and it proves what I said in the post. Many people in this world will go ballistic if the Jews ever start their Temple sacrifice system.
I might add, since you seem so interested in my personal life, that I am no vegetarian. Vegetarians use eggs and dairy products and processed foods that have been produced at the expense of terrible crimes against the animal kingdom. Not only are vegetarians responsible for much of the suffering imposed on innocent animals, but they are also advocating a diet that is quite unhealthy and one of the main causes of heart disease in this country.
Not true at all, David. Accepting your religion would make me guilty of the same crimes you are committing. It wouldn’t make my life better, but worse, for I would have to become callous to the suffering of other sentient beings and concern myself more with an imaginary god than a real live suffering soul.
Before you assume that I’m an atheist, please be aware that rejecting the Judeo-Christian god does not make one an atheist. It only means that I choose not to venerate a demonic being of an imaginary nature.
Carl is a rice and beans eater because even with all his so called compassion he still does not hear their pain. Carl also is obviously a troll that searches the Internet to take stands against Christianity. So Carl is now through commenting on my blog
Don,
I guess your topic was right on the money and it’s not even Christians who are going to start the sacrifices but somehow, because it is the same Lord God, we are going to get blasted for it.
Carl,
If you are still posting, I have to ask…
What is your point in posting to this blog ?
Do you think your going to get Christians to turn their back on God or do you think Christians will not go to IN-N-OUT burger today ?
Or, the probably one, were you trying to prove to yourself that Christians are hypocrites ?
Carl, I am glad at least that you know of the Living and True God…hopefully, you’ll come to your senses and find the love that we share.
I would like to thank you, Don, because by now, most Christians would have resorted to all sorts of vicious attacks, and you have not done that. Thank you. You have also not made personal judgments, and that is most unusual for a Christian. I appreciate that and respect you for it. It is nice when people can talk plainly about differences without verbal violence. Talking about any issue for the sake of understanding is always profitable. Too many times on the web, it just results in everyone getting mad, or worse… Anyway, I appreciate the discussion.
Don,
I didn’t see your post that was 2 minutes before mine.
Well, David, I don’t know why I even received this post. I must have visited the site a long time ago. I’m not sure. When I received the post, I simply answered it. And no, my intent was not to attack you or any other Christians. I would challenge other to think about what you are doing when you continue to eat dead animals. I have no idea why my concern for the suffering of animals should make you so angry or cause you to strike back like you have in your post. If you really love animals as you claim, you should be glad to find another person who shares that love and concern. You say you love dogs. Since I retired, I’ve spent most of my time doing animal rescue, and I been able to save a lot of dogs and place them in good homes. Most of them would have been otherwise killed at the “humane” society. So, if you love dogs, we’re on the same page. What’s with the anger??
Can you see how I would connect that anger to your religious beliefs?? You support flesh-eating while claiming that you know god’s position on the subject. Since you asked me a question, let me ask you one: Do you think you are going to convert me to adopt a god that condones the slaughter of animals as an archetypal object lesson? Really? You are not going to convert me to eat filth, and I’m not going to accept any Voodoo-like god that sanctions such barbaric behavior.
David,
That is a fair question and Carl can answer it if he wishes and I do appreciate his last remark.
Don, I congratulated you too soon. I am so sorry you have resorted to name-calling. I had so hoped that you were different than other Christians I have met. I guess you have showed your true colors like the others. Sorry!
Calling you a troll because you are a troll is name calling? Obviously you have an activist agenda and you like to use other peoples blogs and forums for your soapbox. Your wording that says you got hostile replies from others just proves that you are a troll.
Don, I grew up in a church that advocated vegetarian diet, but didn’t require it. I accepted it, and I stopped eating dead animals 50 years ago. A few years later, I became aware of the horrible suffering that is caused by human consumption of dairy and eggs, and I stopped eating that as well. I was always very religious, went to seminary, went on to pastor a church on the East coast for 5 years. Then I worked in religious publishing for a few more years. As I studied the Bible and observed those who claimed to have this Christian experience of “born from above” as you mentioned, I noticed that it seemed to me that we were dealing with a psychological need that some people have for certainty, and it resulted in sectarian bigotry and a lot of hate-mongering. I tried to understand why that should be, when I had been told that Jesus was about love and goodwill. It was a puzzle for a long time, because I held the false notion that people just didn’t live up to what the Bible expected of us. One day, I realized that the problem was that people were living the Bible morality, and the root of all evil was in the teaching that animals didn’t count, and their suffering could be dismissed as unimportant. I read Gandhi’s book and was struck by the words: “As long as they murder the animals, they will continue to murder one another.” I thought this heathen Hindu was more righteous and compassionate than anyone in my church. How could that be? And then I realized why: He didn’t get his religion from the Bible or Christian tradition, but from his own inner awareness of non-violence and compassion for all sentient beings. Right then, I put away Christianity forever, and I’m a better person for it.
By the way, my software does not send out posts to people. it sends out comments if you are signed up but nobody was signed up for this post at all. So If you got this post and you did not get it from a search engine someone that you know sent it to you.
That’s interesting, Don. Someone may have sent it to me. I have already deleted all those emails, so I can’t check to find out who it was. When I clicked on it, I came to your site. I simply made a reply in answer to your remark. I had no idea you just wanted one side of the issue. I obviously take a different position, but not a hostile position – even though I do feel a passion about the subject.
This whole thing about the temple is a massive study, and I wish we could discuss the theology of it, but I guess you don’t want any opinion that doesn’t already support your position. I spent a lot of time on this issue many years ago, and I have always found it fascinating, but I think there is much more to it than what the evangelicals imagine it to be. They’re not even close, imho.
That’s pretty sad. You gave up the truth and your soul for the lies of Gandhi just because you can’t deal with the fact that death is a reality in a fallen world.
For some reason Hebrews chapter 6 comes to mind. Not that you really ever understood the gospel to start with but had you understood it you would not have left it.
Carl,
The point of this post which you confirm is that some people in the world would be hostile toward Israel starting up an animal sacrifice system. It was not about whether eating meat should be practiced. The Bible is clear that those that eat meat in faith are accepted and those that do not eat meat in faith are accepted.
Well, Don, whether you believe it or not, “troll” is name-calling – just a way of denigrating someone who writes something that you don’t like. …The rest was deleted by editor.
A discussion with you about the Temple would be off topic and Anti-christian IMHO.
I don’t understand why you make assumptions without any reason to do so. I’m not talking about pro and con the temple, but the theological ramifications of whether the rebuilding of the temple has a Scriptural basis, in light of the passages concerning Ezekiel’s temple and the apocalyptic passages in Matthew 24. It seems to me that the evangelical position is just one possibility, and certainly not a very strong one when taken in context of the scripture.
Carl,
“Troll” is a description of someone that looks for arguments on the Internet. You obviously fit that description since in your very own words you have have had these debates with Christians before often enough to congratulate me for not attacking you like most others. So it can be assumed by what you said that you have these debates often enough on Christian sites to be annoying and a distraction so that you can change the topic to your anti Christian agenda. Knowing that, I also assume that is the reason why someone sent this post to you. The rest that you said will not be posted because we are not going to have a debate here on your views of Christianity.
That is not the topic of the post.
Carl said,
“As long as humans eat at the table of violence, they will continue to be violent. Those who will kill the animals will also kill one another.”
This is Reductio ad absurdum, and is logical fallacy, and not even worth discussing.
Carl,
If you truly went to seminary, were a pastor, and were going through the motions of religion, and came up with these conclusions of a “Voodoo like God”…you should know that religion and religious nonsense is not the answer…something is very wrong here…but I don’t believe those are the facts either.
I still don’t understand your point of blogging here or what you hope to accomplish.
Are you trying to enlighten us with Gandhi and “inner awareness ?
Don,
I was slow to see it…but Carl is clearly one who wants to debate to discredit God and his Word, plain and simple.
Demons know we have something that they can’t have.
Ken is right…not even worth discussing.
I thought it odd that a 3 year old topic with no comments suddenly receives a comment.
Sure looks like a troll to me.
Hehe…yeah, good point Bob.
If it looks like a troll, talks like a troll and if it trolls the Internet like a troll it probably is a troll. There is a open hunting season on trolls on my Blog. They are quite edible. Yum!
Don,
I would reply to what you just said but I got my mouth full of this delicious IN-N-OUT burger : )
Sometimes we have open season on Jackasses 😯
Just remember to never stand behind one : )
Carl I think, is no longer with us.
His comment “It seems to me that the evangelical position is just one possibility, and certainly not a very strong one WHEN TAKEN IN CONTEXT OF SCRIPTURE” makes me wonder what context he places on Christ’s words “you MUST be born again”, which necessity he seemed to repudiate.
Don would it be easy to allocate each comment a quotable number?
Sorry for my jackassity in my IN-N-OUT statement, it was in poor taste…I should contain my attempts at humor better.
Hi David ,
I used to live in Southern California and I miss those IN-N-OUT DOUBLE DOUBLES. Closest thing
here in Wichita is FIVE GUYS which is pretty close. Carl only wants to argue, The Passover Lamb was meat. Some people always thing they can correct God.
Heh..Hi Don Fritts,
Yea, how I do love my Double-Doubles.
David, I was referring to your picture not your mouth full of in-n-out burgers.