Many people are interested in things to come in these last days but some say it is a waste of time to teach on these things at all since interpretations of bible prophecy can be somewhat subjective. However, I assure you that if the Church does not teach on Bible prophecy people will go to the cults and those that give aberrant interpretations of Bible eschatology for wrong answers and spiritual bondage.
I see many different theories on how the end times events will all play out. Some think the end time prophecies in the Bible will be fulfilled when an Islamic Antichrist comes against Israel. Others think that the Antichrist will come out of Europe and is identified in some way with the Harlot of Revelation chapter 17. Still others think the world will be visited by alien beings that will turn out to be fallen angels just disguised as beings from another world or dimension. They say these beings will give the world a message that is contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ and that this will be the great deception that brings in the Antichrist.
In my opinion, Islam, the pseudo Christian Harlot, and fallen angels posing as aliens will all play their own unique role in end time Bible prophecy. However, I also think that we do have to considered all this in the proper sequence of events.
Arabs in Islam will bring about the war of Psalm 83 and later other Islamic nations will be involved in the war of Ezekiel 38 and 39 against Israel but these wars happen before the Beast Antichrist is revealed.
The Harlot of Revelation chapter 17 obviously reigns on earth prior to the Antichrist also since she is seen riding the Beast before the Beast turns against her. The description of this harlot queen highly suggests that she is set up in Rome. She also commits adultery with the kings of the earth so she herself is not a king or political system. She is some religions system that has great influence on the kings of the world. There is only one religion headquarters in the world that qualifies as this harlot queen of Revelation chapter 17 and that is the Vatican of the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic religion has been somewhat of a harlot since it reared its head over 1400 years ago and brought in Babylonian priesthood practices and rituals into Christendom. For complete details and her entire history I suggest that you read “A Woman Rides the Beast”, by Dave Hunt.
Before anyone gets too excited about my identity of this end time harlot of Revelation with the Roman Catholic religion. I want you to realize that I believe that this passage in Revelation is speaking about end time events after the Rapture of the true Church. So true Christians that might today be in the Roman Catholic denomination would have been removed at this point. I also am not saying that Roman Catholicism is the only religion or the only religion controlled by the Harlot. I believe the Harlot is a one world religion that the Vatican leads. The Pope has more influence in the world than any other religious figure. The Vatican today has diplomatic relations with most other nations in the world as if it were a separate nation state. No other religion has such qualifications. The Roman Catholic Church also has an advisory seat at the UN. So even today we see that the stage is set for Rome to lead a world religion but the major deceptions that will advance this world ecumenical religious system have not even occurred yet but they will come.
Here is the way I think it will play out. The Western world will be a world war with Islam and it will be a very deadly war with little hope of a good outcome for all involved. All of a sudden there will be great signs and wonders in the heavens and messages that will be attributed by many to Mary. The messages will be that we are all God’s children and mankind must put aside its religious differences and learn to live in peace and do good works or we will destroy the world. This “Queen of heaven” deception (this is satanic deception, it is the same “Queen of Heaven” spoken about in the Old Testament that was worshiped by the people of that time. This is not the Mary of the Bible it is a demonic spirit posing as Mary) will say that religions have to come to common agreement. It will be claimed they they all express different truths about the same God. The claim probably will be that there are many paths to the same God and that we are free to have our own religious expressions and differences but man must all unite and work for the common good on earth or man will destroy the earth.
Believe it or not Muslims revere Mary above any other woman, they revere Mary more than Jesus, as do many Hindus, so it is not far fetched to believe that the Islamic world will be tired enough of war that the majority will embrace this message of inclusiveness and rebel against the radicals in Islam that brought about the world war.
When the world war ends the inclusive Harlot religious system uses her influence to bring world governance into place. Many will be expecting some type of Christ to return to help solve the problems of the world and the Harlot Queen will be sitting fat and happy in Rome. People will be saying peace and safety and many will be following false teachers that are saying the Christ has appeared here or there. During the time of the Harlot’s reign in Rome you will not be allowed to claim that your own beliefs are the only way to God or talk against the religious believes of others because leaders will fear this would lead to new religious wars. So these things will be forbidden in the name of world peace. Those that do not conform will be reeducated or killed for the common good of the world, thinking that doing so is doing God a favor. This brings the persecution of true believers talked about at the fifth seal of Revelation. It will be much like it was in the days of the inquisitions when many thousands of Christians and Jews that would not bow their knee to Rome were killed in the name of God.
This persecution of followers of Jesus will be the last straw and God will rule against Satan’s administration over the earth and give the Kingdom over to Jesus. Satan and his angels will then war against God’s angels and lose and Satan and his angles will be cast out of the heavens unto the earth (Revelation chapter 12). Then Satan knowing that his time is short before Jesus will come with his angels to rule the earth will do all in his power to deceive the world to oppose Jesus and the God of heaven.
The first major event is that an angel will come out of the Abyss, possibly Satan himself or his lieutenant, and he will take over the body of a man and enter the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem (it will part of the ecumenical center built on the Temple Mount overseen by the Roman Harlot to appease the major religions of the world) and he defiles the Temple and claims to be above anything called God. He will probably claim to be the ascended master of the universe perhaps Zeus (the God of Gods) who came into this dimension to save the world from a hostile aliens led by Jesus/Jehovah (said to be posing as God but said to intend to enslave the world under Bible laws).
The Beast Antichrist will demand worship as God and he will have supernatural powers and his fellow travelers (fallen angels) will quickly control the political system of the whole world. His message will especially appeal to those in eastern religions and the “New Age”, New Spiritually, polytheistic and pantheistic movements. His message that God is a force in Himself and that it can be received by others by taking his mark of initiation will bring a world revolution against the Harlot of Rome and this world religious system will fall and be burned. The Beast/Antichrist will then shake up world government and remove three of ten kings that are running the world and move his world headquarters to Babylon. At that time the trumpet and bowl judgments will start but the Beast/Antichrist will continue to lead all nations against Israel and Jesus Christ where he and all on earth that oppose God’s anointed King for the world will meet their end.
So everyone is not wrong when they say Islam will bring in the Beast, or a Western Antichrist will be the Beast or a Alien deception will set us up for the Beast. Some views are probably just too narrow, they just might not be seeing the full prophetic picture.
From what I have read, (in the Bible and books) the Ezekiel 38 war will be at the end of the Great Tribulation. Then of course will be the final battle of Megiddo at the end of the millenial kingdom of Christ himself. It will be the final defeat of Lucifer and his ilk.
I think we as Christians (this isnt directed at you Don), get ahead of ourselves wondering who the Antichrist will be. Remember, he will NOT be revealed until after the Rapture. For us to even speculate who/when/where right now is just that, speculation.
Having said that, I think the Rapture will certainly happen in my lifetime (I’m 37). 10 years ago it seemed as if it wouldn’t, but things are developing rapidly.
Remember, for the mark of the beast to happen, the gov’ts of the world have to have control of industry, health care, monetary policy, etc.
They are well on their way…
Frank, I strongly agree with what you said about the Antichrist and the Rapture but I cannot agree that the Ezekiel 38 war is at the end of the great tribulation or that the battle staged at Megiddo is at the end of the millennial kingdom of Christ.
Without getting into a long winded discussion and getting off topic, If you read the detail in the passages that cover those two wars you should see that the details simply cannot fit the times that you imply. It is possible that war of Ezekiel 38 and 39 describes a earlier battle but then the details of the war in chapter 39 stops and the passage changes to talking about God’s intervention at the end of the age and the restoration of Israel but the detail of the battle in Ezekiel chapter 38 strongly suggests that this battle takes place earlier then near the end of the Great tribulation even perhaps before the tribulation.
The idea that the battle of Armageddon staged at Meggido is after the millennial reign of Christ is really bazaar. I do not know any Bible prophecy teacher that would agree that the Bible teaches that.
Whether things are happening rapidly or not, there is no reason to think we are closer to the rapture for those reasons alone. Remember, the Apostles believed Jesus would return in their lifetime. It is an imminent event. There is NOTHING that has to happen for Jesus to return. There are no signs for Christ’s return in the rapture, the Bible only speaks of specific signs revealing His Second Coming when He comes with the armies of heaven to lay waste to His enemies (Rev. 19) With that, we should always, regardless of “signs”, be living in expectation of our Savior and be about His work (Matt. 25 parable of the talents)
Don, good article. I think you have a great point that these varying views all have their place – possibly, but only time will tell. I am with you on the Gog/Magog conflict. Nothing against the new Psalm 83 teachings about Israel’s fight with certain Arab enemies, but people are taking things a little too far and beginning to morph the Ezekiel 38/39 conflict into the Battle of Armageddon and like you said, the outcomes, the players, and the specifics are all different. I don’t see it, and have heard others say that after extensive study they have been swayed to this. First of all, couldn’t have studied it that well because the events are very much different. Second, who cares! I’m looking up for Jesus!! When the battle happens, it happens and if we are here for it, we’ll be able to point to that faithful book, the Bible, and say, “See, the Word of God never fails in anything it says!”
Doug, there does seem to be too much emphasis these days on the exact details on how every prophecy must be fulfilled. I think most are really wasting their time trying to figure out what cannot be figured out beforehand. The best anyone can do in some areas of interpretation of prophetic passages is come up with rather subjective theries.
I think we do not have enough information before the prophetic events actually take place to figure out all the details because the prophecies are meant for Israel and those left behind that will go through this period. They are not given for the faithful Church that should always be looking for the imminent return of Jesus Christ at any time. The Rapture does not even have to be just seven years before the end. The Bible does not say that. Enoch was taken out half a generation before the flood judgment.
I think some Christians become obsessed with this because they have a post tribulation or pre-wrath view and they think the Church is going through all or most of the tribulation and they believe Christian will have to fight the Antichrist and keep the faith through the tribulation and so the Pre-trib Rapture view in their mind means many Christians will fall away from the faith under the Antichrist persecution. In other words, they have strong beliefs that Christians often lose their salvation. That is a ridiculous concept as if Christ cannot even keep those He bought with His blood. Perhaps some of these post toasties will go through the tribulation but the faithful Church looking for the imminent return of Christ and the blessed hope will not.
Now the latest fad is that we are so close to the tribulation (2012-2013) that the Antichrist has to comes out of Islam. They infer if you do not believe this and do not prepare to fight against Islam and its Antichrist and you teach a pre-trib rapture you are an instrument of Satan that will cause other believing in this concept to lose their faith and fall away under persecution.
To me it is all a deception and a trap because when Islam falls many of these will think they have arrived to the millennium but the Great tribulation with its Antichrist will not even have been arrived.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I think a lot of pre-wrathers became that way due to believing that the church would go through some sort of persecution or difficulties while thinking that those of us who believe in a pre-trib rapture were prone to escapism. That was and is not the case. Pre-trib individuals know full well that there must be foundations established prior to the tribulation (7 years, Daniel’s 70th week) so the events of the tribulation (i.e. the antichrist kingdom, rising up of the nations against Israel, and so forth) could take place. To think that just because we believe in a pre-trib rapture means that we will go through no harm is ridiculous. At the same time, I believe many preachers are at fault and guilty for teaching the pre-trib rapture in this fashion. When Christ comes, we will be saved from the wrath of God. Will we endure some fall-out as the world faces greater birth pangs, prior to the tribulation and prior to His coming in the rapture. Like you said, the rapture doesn’t have to be an event that pre-dates the tribulation by a day or a few weeks. It could be years prior – who knows? Just be ready and live as if He is coming today!
Doug, you are forgetting one HUGE reason in your post, Israel. That nation did not exist for nearly 2000 years until 1948. You also forget that the Bible says that the last days will be as the days of Noah. People in general, (even most so-called Christians today) are hedonistic, materialistic, and sadistic. Most Christians today have never even won one person to Christ ! We are all commanded by Christ himself to win souls, and it just isn’t happening. This is the main reason America has been headed downhill for the last 50-60 years. Fewer true Christians, less salt.
No one is saying that something HAS to happen. But Jesus himself chastises the church with his own words when he said, “you know the signs in heaven but not the signs of the times.”
The apostles looked for the rapture to happen in their lifetimes because of their looking forward to it, as most Christians have done for centuries.
Just for the record, I think the Church should know the general time when Christ will appear. There may be no specific fulfillment for the Church but there are signs of the times and the reestablishment of Israel that makes end time prophecy likely to be fulfilled in this generation. the Church should be aware of that. If we see signs all lining up according to the prophecies given to Israel we should know the time is very near and we should also know the Rapture is ever nearer.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Frank, the Apostles were not looking forward to it as much as they were living in expectation of it. Read 1 Thessalonians when Paul is speaking to them about events they need not know and he speaks as if the next thing they should expect – The Rapture of the church. Israel is our major timepiece – I’m not forgetting that. And as Don said, there are defining signs of His soon coming, but some of the signs are misinterpreted out of Matthew to the rapture when they have more to do with His Second Coming. Again, if we sit and say we must see signs to interpret His coming, we are dismissing that He can come at any time and must wait for something more to happen. That’s my only point! Yes, we should see that things are progressing as He said, but as Don’s article points out, too many people are focused on the signs and trying to interpret something we have yet to fully understand rather than watch for Him and being busy about His work that He commissioned us to do.
Don, that was very insightful blog and I also enjoyed the comments by all involved.
Signs are not to be ignored and they are very important in God’s plans for mankind as the age winds down. Yes, the rapture of the church can happen even before I finish posting my response here. I know that the rapture is imminent. We are here today but could very well be meeting Jesus in the air tomorrow (or tonight – who knows). But signs, or “signs” as somebody highlighted with asterisks earlier, are not to be downplayed. The signs of end time events are a major ingredient in many New Testament writings – especially Thessalonians. I think that the attitude of many today is that to talk about “signs” is a show of immaturity in our faith. I am looking and listening for Jesus and the sound of that trumpet blast at ANYTIME now, but at the same time, signs reinforce the hope that is within me that the Bridegroom is now nearer than ever. “Signs” energize us. They build excitement in us for those WHO ARE WATCHING. We are told to WATCH. Signs are given to energize us to continue doing the Lord’s work until He does come back for His bride. Signs are also given as an attempt by God to turn a lost and unbelieving world to repentance. As we believers are energized by signs, this should translate into more effective witnessing. I’ll take that even a step further. “Signs” should also energize those who aren’t currently sharing their faith, to do so.
” But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.” – 1 Thess 5:4,5
I added verse 5 to what Don just quoted. We are children of light. As children of light, we will be able to see things and recogize things that the lost can’t see. The Holy Spirit in us has given us spiritual eyes. These spiritual eyes give us the ability to recognize events that are related to the “birth pangs” talked about in scripture.
You have offered up some very thought provoking topics in your opening statement Don and I would like to comment on a couple of them, but I think it’s important to address this “sign” issue first. I have friends who hear the word “sign” and they immediately “shut off.” As I mentioned earlier, to many Christians today, the word “sign” is almost a “dirty” word. To say that it’s not important to look at “signs” and that we should be looking for Jesus instead, is missing the point. True – there is nothing else that needs to happen for Jesus to come for His bride – the Church. But I look at the signs that I’m seeing and that “new creature” that lives within me – the “new me” that was born of the Spirit the day I repented of my sins and received Jesus as my Lord and Savior – gets EXCITED by these signs! I’m getting FIRED UP and telling others that TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION!!!!
THIS is the point!!! THIS is our mission! GIVE ME MORE SIGNS that I can get so FIRED UP and EXCITED that they will just be lining up at my door to find out what I’ve got and they don’t have!!!
Well said, I agree, in fact my original website was all about how the signs in the world correlate to indicate that this generation will see the prophetic years of bible prophecy.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/reasons/reason%20why%20we%20are%20in%20the%20last%20days.htm
I said I’d like to comment on a couple of other things that you mentioned in your opening statement. I love this blog because it gives us an opportunity to share ideas and offer up insights on how prophecy is developing and coming together. I don’t think that there is anybody who has all the answers on how things are coming together but it’s edifiying – at least for me – to be able to come together like this and discuss these things anyway.
I’d like to tell you what my opinions are on how some of these events may play out and they are probably all wrong, but bear with me anyway. We may or may not be here for these wars but it’s still fun discussing them. For that matter, we won’t be here for much of Revelation but I love talking about it anyway.
For a long time I believed that the Ezekiel war would begin before the Tribulation started. But I did my own personal exhaustive study on Ezekiel 38 and 39 and I am no longer of that opinion. The reason why I believed that it had to happen before the Tribulation – and the reason that most believe it will happen before the Tribulation – is because of the following verse:
“Then those who inhabit the cities of Israel will go out and make fires with the weapons and burn them, both shields and bucklers, bows and arrows, war clubs and spears, and for seven years they will make fires of them.” Ezek 39:9
So the reasoning is that this war would need to take place before the Tribulation to give Israel time to burn the weapons for 7 years before the Millinium starts. But as I studied these chapters, another verse stands out that just about clinches FOR ME that it is impossible for this war to start before the Tribulation. And this verse is found in Ezek 39:22.
“And the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God from that day onward.”
So at the end of the Ezek war God will make Himself known to Israel and they will know that He is their true God. They don’t know that right now. They are still worshipping false God’s and idols. They believe in God but not the God of the Bible. They will know at the end of this war – because of the victory that God gave them against tremendous odds – that it was the hand of the TRUE God that delivered them from what appeared to be certain defeat and it will be obvious to the whole world that such is the case. If the Ezekiel war were to begin before the Tribulation period, then there would be no need for Israel to go through the Tribulation. And because it says that Israel will know the true God at the end of this war then I don’t believe that they could – or that God would allow them to be fooled – by the Antichrist in signing a 7 year peace covenant with him. I have studied these chapters so thouroughly that I could probably write my own commentary on them. But that doesn’t mean I’m right either.
One day I was reading Revelation and I came to chapter 6. Revelation was never a book that I could understand too well but I decided to read it anyway and see if there was anything I could take from it. As I was reading through the seal judgements, I came to the 6th seal which starts at verse 12 and goes through the end of the chapter to verse 17 and as I read on, my eyes almost popped out of my head! Because what I was reading about this seal matches very well with other verses that I’ve read and studied in another part of the Bible. And those other verses are in Ezekiel 38!!! Due to a word limit, I can’t show you side-by-side comparisons of these verses but if you do it on your own you will see what I’m talking about.
Read Ezek 38 and really get a grasp of what is being described in this chapter and when you get to verse 19 you will see where God tells us, “In My zeal and in My blazing wrath I declare that on that day there will surely be a great earthquake in the land of Israel.” This will happen as soon as Gog enters the land of Israel. It is agreed that the Ezekiel war will be nuclear in nature. In chapter 39 it even describes the special measures that will be taken to clean the land after this war ends. Now compare Ezek 38:19-23 and Rev 6:12-17. I am almost as sure about this as anything else I’ve read that the Ezekiel war will occur at the opening of the 6th seal. If I hadn’t spent so much time reading and studying Ezekiel I never would have noticed this. But I believe that the Holy Spirit gave me the understanding on this.
Also in Ezek it says that Gog and gang will come against Israel at a time when they have no walls or barriers up. They have a sense of security that they have never known – and certainly don’t have now. I believe that this security will only come after the first seal is opened and the Antichrist is revealed.
I’m running out of space but I do want to add a couple of things, so I will have to start another paragraph. I hope I’m not upsetting anybody by being so long-winded.
I just want to close out my long speech on the Ezek war with a couple of short statements. I see no problem with Israel burning the weapons into the Millinium period. Life won’t stop for Israel at the end of this war. And “coincidentally,” I watched a video by Hal Lindsey about a month ago where he brought this same topic up. He said the same thing!
The reason I spent so much time and space on this war is because there are currently websites that say this war has to start before the Trib can begin. This can be very misleading and dangerous to those who don’t know the Lord yet. If the war doesn’t happen before the appearance of the antichrist (AC), then those people who thought they had time to put off making a decision for Christ until after this big war with Israel started, will be left behind.
Lastly, I believe that the Psalm 83 war will be an escalating war. I think it will start with this war and eventually escalate into the Ezekiel war which will further escalate into Armaggedon. IF this is the case then I would “guess” that it COULD take place sometime around the 3rd seal when the red horse appears. Red is also symbolic of war, by the way.
Since I started a new paragraph I may as well put my 2 cents in regards to the harlot and Antichrist (AC).
The harlot – as told to us in Rev 17:18 – is a city. But this isn’t just ANY city. It is a great city. This city is the modern day Babylon. This modern day Babylon is a very wealthy city and sits on many waters. The harlot is riding the Beast so there is a connection between these two. In other words, there is a direct connection between the AC and this city. What could it be. We read in verse 6 that this woman – or city – is drunk with the blood of the martyrs.
I would like to put a special emphasis on verse 9. This trips alot of people up. We see that this verse tells us that this woman is sitting on seven mountains, and many just assume that this is in reference to Rome, but we miss what these verses are really telling us. Notice how verse 9 begins: “Here is the mind which has wisdom.” I’m using the NASB, by the way. (You can go to http://www.biblegateway.com and pull up the different translations quickly and easily). But notice how this verse begins. Evidently, there is something more to be taken from this verse than what we might suspect because it calls for wisdom to understand it. What is it. Let’s look at it along with verses 10 and 11.
9″Here is the mind which has wisdom The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits,
10and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.
11″The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.” Rev 17:9-11
Do you see it? The seven mountains are not really mountains. They are seven kings which are more than likely fallen angels. In the Book of Enoch – which was a part of the Bible when it was first put together and removed by “scholars” later on, actually refers to fallen angels as mountains. No time or space to get into that. But verse 11 further backs this up as we read that there will eventually be an EIGHTH mountain – or king – when the AC shows up. So in my opinion (which doesn’t mean a whole lot), this negates Rome as the harlot. Catholicism will die out as well as all other faiths. The AC religion will be all that is allowed.
Verse 15 tells us that the waters where the harlot sits are “peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.” In other words, this great city is multi-cultural. Verse 18 tells us that the world will be ruled out of this city. The AC will have his seat here until he takes his place in the temple in Jerusalem later on. This is a very wicked and profane city and in verse 10 in chapter 18 we see that it is a strong city. This city has large seaports. Look at chap 18 in verses 11-13. Everything imaginable is sold in this city – including human lives (sex slaves?). So if the harlot which sits on many waters isn’t Rome then which city could the scriptures be referring to? I can actually think of an actual location – an actual city – where there is a lady that sits on many waters. The Statue of Liberty. “Since the 1940s, it has been claimed that the seven spikes or diadem atop of the crown epitomize the Seven Seas and seven continents.” – Wikipedia
But aside from the Statue of Liberty – in my opinion – there is further evidence as to why this modern day Babylon is NYC. Everything imaginable is bought and sold through the NY Stock Exchange. There is not a resource on the planet that isn’t bought and sold there. Wall street is the commerce capital of the world. Every other stock market in the world revolves around Wall Street.
There is one more reason why I believe that NYC is the modern day Babylon and harlot mentioned in Revelation…
Chuck, good point. The problem though with “signs” is this….many Christians love hearing about possibilities, how something could relate, but they are not active in translating their faith into works, like you said. That’s the shame! Too many are excited by the signs, but dulled to the sense of urgency we must share of our faith due to the soon coming of the Savior. “Signs” isn’t a dirty word. But as Don’s article talked about various possibilities, etc., it shows how focused some get on predicting based on the signs and confuse more than help. I understand your point, but honestly, I watch and see and know the signs, but they do not compel me to share the Gospel more than the understanding that His coming is soon.
New York City is also the home of the United Nations and I believe that this is where the AC will be based out of. The United Nations is becoming a bigger factor in world events as time goes on. It is the home of the World Health Organization (WHO) which we hear about all the time now with the swine flu and other diseases that are “mysteriously” popping up (I won’t even go there – I promise) and there are many other offices of the UN that are gaining in stature in world events. Go to the UN website and see how many different offices and departments there are. This organization isn’t going away anytime soon. I believe that the UN will be the “tool” that the AC uses to do his work. I won’t get into all that either. No time for “conspiracy theories.”
There are TWO beasts that appear in Revelation. The first one is the AC and he appears in Rev 13:1 and he comes up out of the SEA. The second beast is the False Prophet and he appears in the same chapter in verse 11 and he comes up out of the EARTH. Israel is awaiting their Messiah and the Muslims are awaiting their own Messiah who goes by the name of Iman Mahdi. Interesting to note is that the Muslims believe that their Messiah is down in a well at the moment. You will have to google it if you don’t know the history there. As I read these verses, I’m under the impression that these two Beasts will arrive at about the same time. So I kind of lean towards these two different false messiahs showing up and through the signs and wonders and miracles they will be doing will fool the world into believing they are who they say they are. I think this will be the combination that will satisfy both the Jews and Muslims in regards to their “Messiahs.” The Jewish “Messiah” will be the Messiah “designate” and the Muslim “Messiah” will be the False Prophet and exalt and promote the worshipping of the other one.
Now that I’ve rambled on about these different things – what does it all mean to us true believers? Absolutely nothing. We won’t be here for any of it anyway – praise God! And unless God allows us to watch “from the sidelines” then we will never know how it all plays out. But like I said when I started – it’s fun to talk about it. I think it pleases God when we study His word – even the parts that we won’t be around for. God gave us the Book of Revelation to read but I believe that this book was written primarily for end-time believers and the 144,000 witnesses. I’m sure they will be spending a majority of time in this Book – probably more than any other part of the Bible.
Keep looking up. Our redemption draws nearer with each passing day. God bless.
I hope everyone now understands why I have a limit on the length of the comment posts. I am not going to comment on all this because I would have to write a book to point out all the problems with Chuck’s view of eschatology. If anyone else wants to make points on what he said they are free to do so. If anyone wants my views they are pretty clearly defined in my Revelation Commentary and on other posts on this blog.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/The%20book%20of%20Revelation/index.htm
I just want to add that New York City is not Babylon. If anyone wants to know why read my commentary on chapter 17 and 18 of Revelation. Especially chaper 18 to find out why Babylon is Babylon Iraq.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/The%20book%20of%20Revelation/Revelation%20Chapter%2017.htm
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/The%20book%20of%20Revelation/Revelation%20Chapter%2018.htm
I certainly hope no one actually thinks NY is Babylon. Then again, if someone reads a book like the Message, I could understand. lol
Babylon is NYC – don’t think so! That’s out there for me and little Biblical evidence to make any point of that!
I apologize for the length of my comments. Does anybody know how all this will play out? No. Do we like to give our views anyway on these things? Yes. That is quite evident by the title and and opening statement of this blog entry. I normally don’t get into these discussions because it’s all speculation, but since it was offered, I did. I guess it’s probably not a good thing to discuss Revelation because everybody has their own opinion and if they disagree with you then they think you’re a nut case. I think we all have problems with our eschatology because none of us are prophets and we don’t know what the future holds.
Again, I’m sorry for taking up so much space.
No problem Chuck, I just do not have the time to respond on all the issues you wrote about. Actually, God knows how prophecy will all play out. He told us about it in His book. It is up to us to study to find out what He said. Some are better at it than others. Good teachers of the word are a blessing from God.
The real differences in Bible prophecy and Revelation with knowledgeable teachers who take what God said in a common literal sense is mostly about issues that the faithful Church will not experience anyway, so the Church really does not have to know all the exact details. Most end time prophecy was written for Israel, hypocrites, and unbelievers because they will go through the period of God’s end time judgments on the earth.
The real problem in Christian interpretation of Bible prophecy is that most cannot distinguish that the Jewish prophets who wrote about events for natural Israel must be fulfilled by natural descendants of Israel. The Church did not replace Israel and make the Jewish prophets words subjective spiritual allegory.
It’s not about not being able to express your views, but without little Biblical evidence (which must support anything about prophecy since even Peter spoke of Prophecy as being wrapped up completely in the personhood of Jesus Christ) a view is just a preference. NO Offense!
There is plenty of biblical evidence that Bible prophecy will be played out in a literal sense as written. All Bible prophecy about what would happen to Israel if they did not obey actually took place to Israel in history and all promises about a restoration to Israel after a time of trouble will also literally take place in the future. That is not a view it is what God said through many different Israeli prophets.
Don
I’ve been enjoying your site for some months now and always find your analysis to be well thought out and on point. I’m not a scholar or a theologian but I do love the word of God.
Without going into detail on Chuck’s posts I must respectfully disagree with him about NYC as Babylon though. It just doesn’t fit scriptually. I don’t want to go haywire on my first post however, lest I be branded a fool. Suffice it to say that I’ll be reading more and hopefully contributing to the conversation in the future as we near the return of the saviour.
Ken C
Thanks Ken, It is obvious with your caution that your no fool. I am glad you decided to get your feet wet. I will be looking forward to more of your comments in the future.
Don, I can’t believe the the Catholic church killed 50 million people
during the inquisition. The Nazis with sophisticated killing techniques
could only kill 6 million people and had a very difficult problem in
getting rid of the bodies. How could church be more effective
in the middle ages than the Nazis of the 20th century?
It looks like the source I recently read was wrong. It looks like the figure might be more like 50 thousand rather than 50 million. I will correct this post and also do a bit of research. Thanks for the correction
Don, speaking of corrections, in your next to last paragraph, last sentence, could you give a scripture reference for the “bowel judgments”? Never heard of that, but sounds pretty gross! 🙂
I think I just had a bowl movement
Since God put everything in order; when he talks about signs, could we look
to the stars, the movement of the planets into positions of the constellations
as some of the signs of the end times. Of course if true, I would have to take a course
in astronomy.
I would like to comment on what Doug said about NY not being Babylon, well, no, I don’t believe it is because Babylon represents an entire nations not just a large city, so let me offer this, that I believe your kind gentlemen should perhaps consider if the United States of America is in fact the Daughter of Babylon. In all the prophecies concerning Babylon the word Great is always used throughout, and little Iraq has always been a base nation so its inconceivable to any candid mind this lttle war-ravage and backwards country ever could fullfill prophecies of Babylon the Great. As Isaiah/Ezekiel/Jeremiah make clear its not Babylon the rises again but her daughter and including Revelations, taken together, they distinguish her outward appearance from her evil characteristics, also giving us how that she is the “Hindermost of the nations, of last in the line of the Great nations,the Greatest military, economic power in the world. Please tell me I am wrong, but if Revelations chapter 18 isn’t a perfect present day description of Ameica sitting at the very center of world trade, than I don’t know which nation is?
Babylon represents a religious system and a world system but the location of the end time Babylonian headquarters will have to be in the land where God said it would be. You might read my commentary on Babylon on chapters 17 and 18 of Revelation. Chapter 18 of my commentary gets into all the major prophecies in the Bible on Babylon. America in not Babylon we probably will not even be a prosperous nation at the time of this prophecy we might even be several nations.
However, from your other posts you apparently think we are already two years into the tribulation so you have to find something today that fits. Nevertheless, Bible prophecy is not likely to conform to anyone’s mistaken conjectures.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/The%20book%20of%20Revelation/Revelation%20Chapter%2017.htm
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/The%20book%20of%20Revelation/Revelation%20Chapter%2018.htm
Where in Gods writ do find the word rapture? Jesus says all will see his coming. No where do I see a two stage second coming of Jesus in scripture. I have always fell in support of the Dispensatiionalism theology, until recently. I find this theology a little questionable now, sorry.
Jesus will return, when all is right, and when he does all eyes, not just some will see him returning in Glory, even those who pierced him “quote”.
This is really off topic but the word Rapture comes from a Latin translation of the English harpazo which means caught up and that is in the Bible.
The Bible teaches that Jesus will come first for His Church and then come with all his angels in a Revelation to the world
The differences between the two comings are explained in my article on the Rapture.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/reasons/rapture.htm
Bob, like I said Rapture Theology is off topic of this post and if you actually read the link I provided to you, you would know the scriptures where we get Rapture Theology and how it differs from everyone just going to the White Throne judgment. The rest of what you said is also off topic.
I cannot teach you Premillennial Theology on the comments of a post. Therefore your comment will not be posted. Read my commenting policy.
Don, please forgive me for speaking out of place. I did read your link on rapture & have found it very interesting. I am still drinking milk and maybe not ready for solid food but I love the Lord and I am trying with all my heart to understand Gods word. There are so many thoughts on Christ return, that does confuse us Christians, I quess we must listen with our hearts and wait and see what the Holly Spirit says to us or does not tell us.
Again except my appology and keep up your good work for Christ.
Thanks Bob,
May God guide you as you study and search out the scriptures.
An extraterrestrial antichrist who claims `we always here’ would make sense as we’re looking at someone who blasphemously worships himself above any diety, which would not be tolderated by Islam or by most other earthly religions, and who does not subscribe to the God of his fathers – in any religion.