The visions given to Daniel document that there will only be four Gentile world kingdoms from his own time until the Kingdom of the Messiah. The four kingdoms that Daniel saw that were identified with four beasts have been unquestionably identified by reputable historians as Babylon, Medio-Persia, Greek, and the Roman. The Roman is the fourth beast described and last Gentile Kingdom on earth. At the end of the age this kingdom will be destroyed and the earth will be given to the people of God (Daniel 7).
There is no other worldwide Gentile kingdom in scripture between the time of the ancient Roman Empire and the time that the latter-day prince makes a seven-year covenant with Israel at the end of the Gentile age (Dan 9:27). Therefore, in God’s eyes we must still exist in the era of the Roman fourth beast that is recorded in the book of Daniel (Dan 2:40, 7).
Sean Osborne of Echatologytoday.blogspot.com gives a great history lesson on the four beasts of Daniel 7. He also agrees that the Roman Beast still exists today. Daniel 7: The Key Prophecy Concerning a Roman Antichrist.
The description in the book of Daniel seems to require a continuation of that fourth kingdom until the end of this Gentile age. The popular interpretation that the fourth beast ceased existing and that there will be a revival of this Roman fourth beast in the end times really is not supported by anything said in the Daniel prophecies.
It is far more likely that the fourth kingdom that Daniel saw in his vision has been with us since the time of the ancient Roman Empire.
Since all of this prophecy in Daniel was not fulfilled by the ancient Roman Empire, many Bible prophecy teachers have surmised that the Roman Empire ceased existing but will be revived again in the last days to fulfill the prophecies. That interpretation really does not match the visions given to Daniel.
It seems more likely that the kingdom described as the fourth beast of iron had some changes within it over the centuries but that fourth beast really never stopped being the controlling kingdom that is ruling over the world.
Daniel says this fourth kingdom shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces (Dan 7:23). Is that really describing only the ancient Roman Empire? The Roman Empire did not take over the whole earth. And what does breaking the whole world into pieces mean? Perhaps this means this fourth beast will eventually break the world into many vassal states that will submit to the rule of the fourth kingdom.
The 8th beast of Revelation 17:11 is when the Beast Antichrist takes over the seventh kingdom and then forces his own political and economic system on the world. The seventh kingdom in Revelation is the same kingdom as the fourth in Daniel. The difference in numbers is because Revelation includes the three Gentile world kingdoms prior to Daniel. Therefore, it should be clear that scripture is saying that the Antichrist comes out of the fourth beast in Daniel and the 7th in Revelation, and historical hindsight tells us the fourth beast is Roman.
Having said that, I am making the argument that the fourth Beast continues to exist since it first appeared as that Roman Empire. The Roman fourth beast kingdom never disappeared or fell like many are saying so that it needs revival. I think it exists through the centuries but few are identifying it as the beast that it has been over the centuries.
Many Bible prophecy teachers are waiting for the revived Roman Empire to rise again out of certain nations in Europe but maybe this fourth beast actually exists today in the form of the western new world order.
The fourth Roman kingdom really never fell, it just sort of lost its leadership at times but it was still found over different parts of Europe. After the Caesars in western Europe there were various kings and dynasties before and after Charlemagne was declared Emperor in 800 AD.
The Byzantine Empire in Eastern Europe was part of the Roman Empire and it lasted for an additional thousand years after the decline of the West. It fell to the Turks in 1453 AD. In Western Europe, in 962 AD, Otto I started using the name “The Holy Roman Empire” and that empire and name lasted for 844 years until Napoleon.
Maybe the rulers of West Europe before and after The Holy Roman Empire and the Eastern Byzantine Empire should be included within the fourth world kingdoms visions of Daniel chapters 2 & 7. I think that seems more logical than thinking that the fourth Roman kingdom of Iron ended with the last emperor in Rome in 476 AD only to be revived again before the Antichrist.
Those in the Eastern Europe still identified themselves with the Roman Empire for many centuries after the West declined. The fourth Beast of iron in Daniel’s vision was first led by Rome but it was much more than Rome and it continued.
During part of The Holy Roman Empire period, and afterward, we find the imperialistic conquests of the new-found lands by Western European nations.
After the Holy Roman Empire in Europe there were the Napoleon conquests and after those there were other wars for European dominance until World War II. Seems the fourth beast was doing much trampling and breaking nations in pieces and creating new nations from the ones trampled as the prophecy in Daniel chapter 7 suggests.
This ongoing picture of the fourth beast through history better fits Daniel’s vision of that dreadful and terrible beast with iron teeth (Da 7:7) than the ancient Roman Empire of history. The ruling elite of Europe have formed world orders to control the world since the ancient Roman Empire and they continue doing it today.
The reason for giving this simplistic overview of Europe is to support my thesis that the Roman Empire not only stayed in existence in one form or another; it actually expanded to the new-found lands and much of the world. The fourth beast did not cease, it spread over much of the world and we are now in part of it. This same fourth beast will eventually take over the whole earth as Daniel indicates.
One of the hallmarks of the fourth beast from the start was rule by an elitist oligarchy that combined secular and clerical rule but gave the people some say through elected or appointed representatives. That remains the style of rule in most of the Western world today.
The mingling of cultures also may be a characteristic described by Daniel’s vision of the fourth beast. The ten toes in Daniels vision have compositions of iron and clay. This mingling of what cannot stick together continues in Europe and the new world until this day. All we need is the correct identification of those ten toes of iron and clay of Daniel Chapter 2. Maybe these toes are not nations at all like many have surmised; maybe they are ten world zones.
The fourth Roman beast kingdom did not cease to exist; it continues to expand even now. There are now over 100 nations that can be identified as being under the influence or control of the fourth beast world kingdom or order.
One of the mistakes that Bible prophecy teachers may have made was thinking that ten nations would soon arise out of Europe and fulfill the role of the ten toes in Daniel and the ten horns in Revelation. The text in Revelation indicates that the ten horns or leaders have no kingdom as yet, but they will receive their kingdoms for one hour with the Beast (Rev 17:12). That could mean that the areas that the ten kings would rule over were not even in existence at the time of the prophecy. They only exist in the time of the Beast Antichrist.
These probably are ten regional world zones and their leaders. They will give their power (support) to the Beast Antichrist when he arises as world leader. The Antichrist is likely to control all nations on earth through the leaders of ten regional zones.
So what is the point? Just this. The EU is now 27 nations and many more states want to join. Maybe we should not be looking for ten nations to morph out of the EU at all. Maybe the fourth kingdom is now a world order that includes the lands of the old Roman Empire but is not limited to European or ancient Roman Empire boundaries. In fact, this fourth beast may already control most of the world as the new world order of the Western elite.
Just about all people who dwell in the many nations in the America’s came from Europe and are continually being influenced by old Europe. European thinking has even expanded to the borders of Russia. About the only thing stopping the European influenced world order from taking over the world is the Oriental and the Muslim block of nations. They will have to be brought into submission under the fourth Roman beast kingdom.
That will probably be achieved through the next world war. Remember, there are only four beasts listed in Daniel until the Kingdom of God, and the fourth beast has done a lot trampling and breaking of the nations since the ancient Roman Empire.
If the Kings of the East are put under the rule of the fourth beast, and Islam is brought under control, there will be no reason left why the existing Western world order cannot prevail to rule the world and fully establish those ten world regional governments.
After this, the ten leaders of these ten world zones (the ten horns in Revelation) give their power to the Beast and the worldwide rule of the Antichrist becomes a reality. All in the world will have to submit to the Beast and his economic system to survive. That is where many of the elite of the Western world want to take us now.
By the way, regional world economic zones are under development. These world regional trading blocks and defense alliances are probably the very foundations for those ten world zones led by ten leaders. Keep in mind, that we already have world governance by the elite that will coordinate and enforce any agreements between these different regional zones.
The only thing needed to put national governments under zonal government control is to collapse national currencies. That collapse becomes inevitable because the present world economic system is nothing but a debt driven house of cards.
Sure, the original area of the Roman Empire is likely to be the zone that leads the world. And I believe the Antichrist will take power in the Western European world zone. Even so, the Antichrist changes the world order when he eliminates three of these zones. Then he appears to move his headquarters to Babylon and establishes a world-class city there that becomes the world government headquarters.
Revelation calls this Beast led Kingdom, Babylon the Great. It probably will be a counterfeit kingdom of god to replace the coming Kingdom of God that the coming two Jewish prophets taught was coming for 1260 days but the world rejected. Much of the world will embrace the Hitler like lies of a thousand-year reign led by “more evolved enlightened” people in the world.
Nevertheless, the Beast Kingdom of Revelation and the fourth kingdom that Daniel describes will be destroyed by the Rock that was made without hands. That Rock is Jesus Christ. He will destroy the Beast Kingdom at His coming.
I am saying this to tell you not to just look for some ten nation Beast to rise out of Europe. The fourth beast is very likely among us and the toes of iron and clay might already be evident but might still be called regional alliances or economic zones. Once the restrainer is removed, the little horn Beast Antichrist may first appear among the ten zones where you least expect him.
Anyway, if nothing else, my whole premise that In God’s eyes the Roman fourth beast still rules the world is pretty good food-for-thought and worth discussing. If you think I am now being dogmatic about this being the only possible interpretation of Daniel chapter 7 you have me confused with someone on TV.
———————————————————————————————————————
A very good follow-up article was written by Sean Osborne of Eschatology Today. Revived Roman Empire: Correcting a Hermeneutical Error
I am glad you did this article. I have a question, how does the Ottoman empire and British empire fit into the Roman empire.
Very well worth discussing Don.
I don’t know how far one can push this line of thinking but it will be interesting to read what I hope will be an interesting discussion.
J.
(I deleted my first reply)
The Ottoman Empire of the Turks is a difficult call for me. Constantinople certainly was the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire until the Ottoman’s took it over in 1453. It seems more likely that this empire warred against the fourth beast. I would like input from others about the Ottoman Empire being part of the fourth beast. The Ottoman Empire was dissolved after the first world war by nations more fittingly in the fourth beast.
I certainly would include the British Empire and Britain today as being part of the fourth world kingdom.
Hello Don,
Fascinating article! Makes very good sense. As I was reading, I thought about even recent history such as the British Empire of the 1500 to early 1900’s, controlling territories around the globe for a time. Seems since Rome, there really has always been one or more of their vassal states of that period controlling a large chunk of the world. I’m not sure if what I said fits into your thesis, but it seems to make sense.
Would the iron mixed with clay be different ideologies within the “regions”? For instance, conservative vs liberal thinking that causes them to not hold together well?
Rod
Don this is a great article and makes perfect sense.I have often felt the reason for the US not being specifically mentioned in prophecy was because we are part of the Roman Empire. The crashing of our currency would make perfect sense in order to level our power or bring us closer into the group of other western nations.
Don, I always wondered why those in prophecy always say a new world empire would rise and be the fifth & final empire when the Bible specifically said only 4 empires would rule. This leads me to wonder why we bother to vote in elections in these days as the elitists control both sides of the political spectrum and will have their NWO. Since our country’s leaders reflect our society and it’s morals, I see no way a true conservative who is anti NWO/Global Govt System could possibly be elected and leads me to the question, “why bother voting?”
Rod,
The prophecy of the iron and clay feet and toes is explained by the angel.
I do not think it is talking about different ideologies although different ideologies might account for the strong and weak parts of the Empire.
.
Robert,
As I said in the article, the end time world order of the Beast cannot rise to power until what hinders him is taken out of the way. I think we could have quite a few years left before the ten zones rule the nations. Until then those nations that have representative government can change many things in their nation by voting. The world has always been run by people that rise to power, but other leaders rise to power to oppose them when sufficient numbers of people get fed up with their tyranny. So if you want to remain under radical left wing tyranny in this country don’t vote.
Hi Don,
Great article! As an addendum, let us also consider the Seven Years War, which claimed the lives of more than a million people world wide. Thought precipitated by the major European powers of the day, almost every nation on earth was eventually involved to one extent or another. We call it the French and Indian War. Oddly enough, the war was kicked off by then Col. George Washington during an insignificant territorial skirmish between a detail of French soldiers and Virginia Colonists near current-day Uniontown in Western Pennsylvania. It was THE first world war. Tom
Hi Tom,
The history of Europe is nothing but wars in one century after the other ever since the ancient Roman Empire. Anyone that thinks that Europeans have now evolved to be peaceful people are deluding themselves. World War I was suppose to be the war to end all wars. Yeah sure, we see how that worked out.
Thanks Don,
I’m really wondering how all these world ideologies play into the big picture.
Rod
Rod,
Maybe they do not play into the big picture at all after the Antichrist arrives on the scene with signs and wonders and claims to be God. Who can argue with God or make war with the Beast (Rev 13:4)? In other words, thinks will not just continue as usual on earth. Everything man ever believed will be turned upside down when God sends the world the lie because they hated the truth (2 Th 2:11).
Hi Don,
That makes sense.. Perhaps the ideology issue now is only part of the “stage setting”..
Rod
Don
Rome was the forth Kingdom at the ‘cutting off’ of Messiah, and ‘the prince that shall come’ is clearly a future ruler of Rome (ruler of those same people that destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD) so one would expect there to be a continuation of its cultural systems to hold it all together from one era to another. If this is necessarily true everything you have written makes sense.
But… could it be that the intercalation of the Church age is not just the setting aside of the Jewish prophetic age, but also the setting aside of the four prophetic Gentile kingdoms and even the ‘times of the Gentiles’ itself?
Is there anything that comes to mind whereby we might look at these last 1900 years of history purely from the standpoint of Christianity and its influence in the world? I have never been a good student of Church history so ask this as a pot stirring exercise.
Brian,
Hmmm, interesting thought. There is a gap in the Gentile history given by Daniel from the cutting off of the Messiah until the seven year covenant with Israel. The Church age undoubtedly is what hinders the end time fulfillment. The fulness of the Gentiles must come in before the end time prophecies play out. Having said that, the Roman fourth beast coexists with the Church age, it is always waring against the people of God on earth.
Yes Don I think you are correct, for when we throw into the mix the belief that the ancient Babylonian culture shifted to Rome it makes the coexistence you speak of very believable, for that system has always been at odds with God’s truth and has certainly been in every subsequent dispensation and clearly alive and thriving throughout the Church age.
The Lord as opened my eyes to this, that believed is established in Daniel’s prophecies especially, chapter 2. I hear people all the time say is the USA in prophecy; yes so is the plan for the federation of nations.
It’s hard to ignore the fact that the Roman Empire did fall and ceased being an empire.
Perhaps you could say Rome influenced the world through the rule of the Catholic Church, in a quasi-partnership with the kings that emerged after the fall of Rome. And since the fall of the church and these “Kingdoms”, a new form of government that is very similar to Rome has appeared yet again on the scenes with the current republic rule with the US being an example.
Whatever thinking we come up with on the subject, I think it’s stretching the 4 Kingdoms prophecy, which would itself have made more sense to me if Jesus had in fact set up rule instead of heading to the cross, or shortly returned after the cross to set up the Kingdom of God here on earth, destroy the 4th kingdom in the process.
Daniel’s prophecy about Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of a statue would seem to indicate a 5th Kingdom with the feet of iron and clay. It’s seems very coincidental to me that a foot has ten toes, and the invasion of ten Germanic tribes which directly lead to the fall of the 4th Empire.
The peoples that are descendants of these tribes are believed by many to still rule the world to this day.
David,
Actually my point is that the fourth Beast never did fall. According to Daniel 7 the fourth Beast is only defeated by God when he gives the kingdom to his people. My point is that The Roman Empire continued in Europe and it continues in much of the world today. There is nothing in the prophecy that says the fourth Beast is limited to the city of Rome or the ancient Roman Empire.
The prophecy interprets itself, it says the fourth kingdom will exist at the time of the end not a fifth kingdom. Daniel’s prophecies are not limited to chapter 2 read chapter 7. Revelation also mirrors the same four kingdoms with the seven heads until the Beast.
I may not be explaining my thoughts well, but what the world sees as the fall of the Roman empire, and the rise of many various kingdoms, in actuality is the feet of the statue, which is different from the legs of the 4th kingdom of the statue. The scripture even gives a different prophecy for the feet or at least describes the differently.
Hi Don,
It is interesting to think outside the box. Europe dominated the Americas, Africa, Asia and Oceania. Now, if you add to that where Islam is dominating in the present, you get almost all the world. Rome included all the countries of the Mediterranean. Maybe one leg is in Europe (the West) and the other in North Africa(the Muslim).
Hi Eduardo,
I believe we know where the legs of Iron were. That was Rome and Constantinople. I do not think the enemies of the fourth Beast are now part of it. That is why I say a world war of conquest to bring the Muslim lands controlled by Islam under submission to the fourth beast becomes inevitable. Islam could join with the fourth beast in some sort of Chrislam peace compromise but I do not think it will happen until after the world war plays out.
Don, excellent insight as ever. May God continue to give you good health and long life so that you may continue to feed the brethren with Bible meat.
hi could you please explain to me if fourth beast still exist then why the nations which today are part of roman empire are not allies and unified for example if russia and china are part of the roman empire then why there was soviet union and cold war between these two nations and western countries. As i know the countries which are included in an empire are actually unified and not hostill toward each other. So what benefit would be for the fourth beast to have a world where there are countries which are at odd with each other rather than being united.
I would also appreciate if you someone explain to me how the rise of arabs and their conquests in the 7th and 8th centuries fit in the four beast. why would Rome let that happen which that eventually lead them to crusade which at the end was not successful.
Sero,
I was not suggesting that Russia and China are part of the fourth Beast. The fourth beast had its nationalistic wars for dominance but has never lost its Roman/European/Mediterranean roots. Today it is the Western alliance and world order.
Sero,
The Roman Empire obviously went into decay and that allowed for the invasion but it recovered and defeated the Muslim invasion. The fourth Beast is still in the process of fulfilling the Daniel prophecy. It has not yet devoured and trampled the whole earth (Dan 7:23). It is not like there is some identify in Rome that can stop these things from happening.
Excellent article. I have been corresponding with a genuine conservative from Kansas-a U S Senator. I watch C-Span to watch(or catch) genuine politicians at work. That is difficult as the lobbyists create the bills and pay the congress off to pass their interests. Sad indeed.