I personally do not put much stock in David Wilkerson’s prophecies. I remember Wilkerson making dire prophecies for the last thirty years that have not come true, at least not yet. Nevertheless, David Wilkerson’s prophecy here is likely to come true but not necessary because God gave him a prophecy. Any astute Christian person can see America is now being judged and with the immoral generation that have taken over our inner cites it certainly will eventually lead to riots, fires, looting and then martial law.
I think telling people to stock 30 days food is better than nothing but it gives them false security. Even Homeland Security says people should have 3 months food on hand. Having at least 6 months of the basics is what I would suggest.
But like David Wilkerson said in his article. Do with this message as you choose (actual message from Wilkerson’s blog).
Famed pastor predicts America is now being judged
Famed pastor predicts imminent catastrophe
Best-selling author, Teen Challenge founder, sees ‘earth-shattering calamity about to happen’
David Wilkerson’s vision is of fires raging through New York City.
“It will engulf the whole megaplex, including areas of New Jersey and Connecticut. Major cities all across America will experience riots and blazing fires – such as we saw in Watts, Los Angeles, years ago,” he explains. “There will be riots and fires in cities worldwide. There will be looting – including Times Square, New York City. What we are experiencing now is not a recession, not even a depression. We are under God’s wrath. In Psalm 11 it is written, “If the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do?”
“God is judging the raging sins of America and the nations,” claims Wilkerson. “He is destroying the secular foundations.” Wilkerson urges everyone to stockpile a 30-day supply of food and other necessities to deal with the catastrophe he foresees.
“I do not know when these things will come to pass, but I know it is not far off,” Wilkerson concluded in his message. “I have unburdened my soul to you. Do with the message as you choose.”
Here is Todd Strandburg’s of Rapture Ready perspective on this recent David Wilkerson’s prophecy.
Quote: “I personally do not put much stock in David Wilkerson’s prophecies. I remember Wilkerson making dire prophecies for the last thirty years that have not come true, at least not yet.”
My, my, I believe I remember Israel saying the same things about the terrifying prophesies of the O.T. Prophets. Thirty years is not even a biblical generation.
Here are my thoughts on the matter:
Yes, Fear is our enemy, but we must always fight it first in our minds. Fear is the ‘Stick’ of the enemy in it’s ‘Carrot and Stick’ scenario. However, Wisdom is not Fear. We cannot hear the leading or voice of the Holy Spirit when Fear is large in us. Therefore, AFTER we have conquered the attack of Fear, THEN we can pray with Wisdom and FOR Wisdom from the Holy Spirit about what our individual response should be to this warning Message from God. Pastor Wilkerson has been consistent over the years in the messages God has given him, even as were the Prophets of old, but his messages have been no more believed or popular than those same Prophets.
The spirit of Comfort has seduced America, including Believers. And the enemy has had freedom, as long as we ‘felt’ Comfortable. There have been many smaller voices crying out Truth, whether in the Church or not, but they have been scoffed at and silenced.
We, as the Church of America, are soft. We do not, as humans, want or like pain or messages of pain, including God’s call to Repentance. The Church itself will be changed, hardened as battle-scarred veterans. All soldiers must experience their first real battle, and how they respond will reveal their character.
It is in fact terrifying to watch events roll on, ever since Hurricane Ike, gathering speed and forcing the reality of fearful change in our nation upon us, and it’s not over. No one believes that it is, whether Believers or Unbelievers. Did you think that the very catastrophe prophesied might be the blessing of God, who is acting in his Holy Righteousness, that will cause MANY to turn to God in tears? This may be the actual Time that has been prophesied for our nation for the greatest RE-vival (Believers) and birth of new Believers that we have ever seen.
First Judgment, then Mercy. Judgment and Mercy kiss. Whether for the individual or the nation, it is the same, and the purpose is God’s Purpose to bring our hearts to Repentance and Salvation at the feet of our Lord Jesus of Nazarath.
My my, how some Christians can be so gullible and wrong about Christian teaching.
David Wilkerson is no old Testament type prophet. If he were he would be stoned dead. I have a book here written by him about his visions over thirty years about the United States. None have come true. The problem with these self proclaimed prophets is that few in Christianity hold
them accountable for what they say in the name of the Lord.
I do not mind people saying that they feel God is telling them the United States is heading for judgment because on the path we are taking it is obvious that we are heading for judgment. But when they claim they got special visions and revelation from God about the details they had better be correct or else these are speaking false presumptions claiming they came from the Lord.
We have many in Christianity today who do this and they are always wrong but nobody holds them accountable. They just say their is a learning curve in giving prophecy. Which really makes it all nonsense. The only learning curve necessary is for the false prophets who presume to be prophets but they will never get it right. Instead of giving revelation to the Church they make headlines for the National Enquirer and hold Christian leaders up for more ridicule.
What is the spirit of comfort? You mean like the spirit of watching TV, or the spirit of eating too much? There are no such spirits. The real issue is that many people going to church are not true Christians. They cannot even explain the basics of Christianity or tell you what God said in His word. Cultural Christians are not necessarily Christians.
Many have been giving warnings to the Church all the way back to Paul but that does not make us prophets. If people are departing from the truth of God’s word it is up to those who know the truth to correct them.
Why is a call to repentance pain? It is nothing more than going back to what Christians claim they believe anyway. Repentance is not penitence, it is allowing the Holy Sprint and the Bible to become the guide in our lives. If people have not been in the on going battle it is probably because they have never enlisted.
You really think this nations is about to see the greatest revival and birth of new believers at a time of Apostasy in the Church and amorality throughout the land? You say this revival has been prophesied for our nation. Prophesied by whom? By those false prophets teaching Dominion theology?
Ugh!
Just one thing will I respond to. You ask ‘Why is a call to repentence pain?”
Have you ever experienced Holy Spirit Conviction? Leave out the words “Holy Spirit”, if they offend you. Do you know what it feels like to know that, not only were you WRONG in thought, words, action, choice or deed, but that you can’t justify yourself AT ALL? In addition, that your thought, words, action, choice or deed were not only contrary and hurtful to God, our Father, but to other human beings, and even to yourself because you are beloved by our Father and He doesn’t want you to hurt yourself any more than He wants you to hurt others? And that hurting others causes them not only pain but possibly to turn against their Father, not understanding?
Only persons who have actually experienced the Conviction of God (I capitalize it because it is much more than human realization of guilt and wrong) can relate to what I am saying. It is not of the human range of emotions or mind, any more than the Peace of God that Jesus spoke of is of man, but ‘surpasses all understanding’.
spirit of Comfort? Well, the Bible says that God (Himself) is Spirit, we live in a spiritual realm, satan is spirit and leader of all spirits that followed it, and the Spirit of Truth is God’s Holy Spirit, which goes by many names with God’s attributes. A mesmerizing ‘spirit’ of comfort that blinds people to true and real things happening in the world at any level is what I named ‘spirit of Comfort’, in a totally negative and dark sense and NOT from God, who is Light, but from darkness. What would you call it?
What’s so wrong with fear? It’s just an emotion like any other. My fear that my government is ruining the economy, my fear that the education system is – wittingly or unwittingly – indoctrinating young people, my fear of the spread of Islam in Europe – are these fears not justified? Fear and prejudice are a natural reaction that can protect us from what we don’t know and in many cases these fears are justified. How is fear of a wild animal our enemy? How is fear of radical Islam our enemy? How is it wrong to fear people leading immoral lifestyles when it is keeping moral people away from them? How about the fear of God? Fear is our enemy only when it has no rational grounds. It then becomes paranoïa, hysteria and folly. Pain, if you want.
There is fear and there is FEAR. Healthy fear, like healthy pain, will cause us to make a wise decision and can save our life, our finances, our family and others, our nation. Heroes are always afraid. FEAR immobilizes, paralyzes us, freezes our brains so we can’t even think straight to make wise decisions.
The English word ‘fear’ is one of those words that have many connotations, and other words can be used to narrow down the meaning, but the word ‘fear’ is one that everyone understands.
I think the Bible’s exhortation to see Wisdom (beyond human, that is the meaning in the Bible) is the only way that works. It is sometimes Wise to fear, as in your examples. It is Wise to fear what can cause harm and destroy peace, which we all desire to live in. Our emotions were created by God along with our bodies, but they were not meant to rule us but to provide us with additional information beyond what pure mind could, as well as enhancing life.
Jaris,
Rather than getting the thread off the post topic by going down a rabbit trail of discussing repentance etc. I will just let your followups comments speak for yourself.
I do not disagree with what Wilkerson said. I say the same events will eventually come as well because much of America has rejected God. I just disagree that Wilkerson received inspired prophetic information from God especially since any astute Christian can see that America will receive judgment for her sins.
Shalom,
I’m a Messianic Jew living in Sodom, California (San Francisco) and I’ve been giving a similar message for over 3 years now.
My message is different as I am foretelling the destruction of San Francisco and LA, the end times Sodom and Gomorrah by fire and brimstone per the prophecy of Messiah Yeshua in Luke 17:28-37.
I believe this will be fulfilled by the eruption of the Yellowstone Caldera.
So this is close to what Pastor Wilkerson is teaching. I believe he has the wrong coast though.
All glory to the Father and His Holy One, Messiah Yeshua!
Baruch HaShem,
Dani’ El
Actually Luke 17 28:37 is talking about the whole world not just the Left coast.
I think the Yellowstone Caldera and every other volcano and fault will let go during the tribulation due to a comet, Wormwood or a earth crust slip and pole shift. Probably all three will occur. I am saying nothing by divine revelation here but from what I know of Bible prophecy and what I believe occurred in the ancient past.
Shalom Don,
There is much more to this story, and I cover it on my blog.
When Calif first began to hold Sodomite marriages, I gave warning on the steps of city hall and was mocked and threatened.
2 Days later God sent a dry lightning storm that kindled a shocking 800 wildfires in the state.
Since then there have been several terrible firestorms in LA and San Diego.
Yes, there will be much terrible destruction from Volcanoes in the last days, esp during the trib, but the events described in Luke 17:28-37 clearly describe an end times Sodom being destroyed, and the flight of the elect.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?” So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
This verse is basically saying, “If the shoe fits, wear it”
Is there any doubt that SF and LA, LV, are a modern Sodom and Gomorrah?
And that God must surely judge them some day? or owe an apology to S and G?
No friend it is coming and soon, and I do have this by revelation. Long story, again I invite you to my blog for my fantastic testimony. I’ve been beaten, kicked, spat on, and even arrested and jailed without charge or a lawyer for 40 days in 2005, since being called to give this warning.
The Yellowstone Caldera began building up steam and making disturbing rumblings last Christmas. No, friend. The judgment of SF and LA are determined and at the door.
Baruch HaShem,
Dani’ El
I totally disagree with you about your strange meaning of Luke 17, or verse 37. It does not say “if the shoe fits wear it” or anything of the sort. I also do not agree with your claim of a special Revelation but we are not going to waste everyone’s time and explore your nonsense.
> ” I’ve been giving a similar message for over 3 years now…”
> “My message is different as I am foretelling the destruction of San Francisco and LA…”
Oh, and I thought that such charismatic gifts were limited to the early church and many tribes out there in the jungle who, unfortunately, have no Bibles available to them. Frankly, I get weary whenever I hear people making such claims. Prophecy this, prophecy that. Seriously, how is this prophecy of yours a prophecy? It’s just a hypothesis, a wild claim or a prediction. Why would God have to destroy Los Angeles or even San Francisco? I mean, why doesn’t He destroy Detroit, New York City or Berlin and Amsterdam while He’s at it? I’ve heard people saying that when New Orleans was drowned it was God punishing America. Okay, well, Louisiana isnot exactly the most godless place on earth so what did Lousiana do wrong? Mardi Gras!? Some people were even saying God was punishing India for the persecution of Christians when a tsunami hit its west coast a few years ago. Oh sure, and I guess that’s why the tsunami hit Kenia as well. Why would God punish poor Indian fishermen when some among those hit were Christians themselves? Why flood India and not Saudi Arabia, for crying out loud?
So I’m sorry but all these modern-day prophets like you don’t impress me anymore especially if they are claiming what they predict is somehow a God-given “prophecy” and not simply a careful consideration supported by facts that seem to indicate that something may go this or that way in the future. God doesn’t need prophets anymore – everything man needs to know is contained in the Bible and explained by the Gospel. That’s the only thing we need to spread. Also, the only reliable and relevant prophecies are those written down in the Bible. Why do we always have to add to the Bible? Ever read the last verses of Revelation? You better read them and be careful next time you claim you’ve received this or that prophecy.
All these prophecies that people claim to make are not prophecies but are either wild exaggerations by looney people with delusions of grandeur, or predictions made by people who are experts in their respective fields of research and can back up their claims with evidence or examples from history. In the latter case, these people tend to refrain from claiming they are prophets because they are not so arrogant or naïve. Frankly, I have no reason to believe you any more than the latest sattelite’s weather predictions for 6:35 AM next Thursday morning.
I don’t know who this Don guy is, but clearly he has some delusions and has forgotten what Wilkerson actually wrote in the Vision. Banks failing, car manufacturing failing, excuse me but it is happening. Come Don, wise up Maybe rereading the book would be beneficial for you.
Love it: “Oh, and I thought that such charismatic gifts were limited to the early church and many tribes out there in the jungle who, unfortunately, have no Bibles available to them.” Not sure if this was meant toung-in-cheek, but that is the way I took it.
Why did God destroy Sodom instead of the many other possible and probable sites, if grading evil in the world was a factor? The answer is simply ‘God did because He did’. and it was for our edification! We, the Church in the West, seem to have forgotten (or lost belief) that God IS and hasn’t changed, and, like Israel, think that God simply isn’t watching anymore!
And as an earlier commenter noted, we are to TEST the spirit of the one prophesying. Why? Because MANY will speak claiming to be from God. Same then, same now. Do you realize that there have always been prophets in the world, in every culture? Some speaking Truth, or mixtures of Truth, or no Truth at all! Even in the Bible. We want to have that inner assurance (from our own spirit that was connected to the Spirit of God at the moment we bowed our knees to Him) that it is God’s Truth, and even which parts are not! That old Double-Edged Sword again, dividing and separating. The Lord’s Prayer, which Jesus told his disciples (and us) that THIS is the way to pray, includes us asking our Father to ‘not lead us into temptation’, and that includes the temptation to rreceive what we shouldn’t and reject what we should. We are to listen always for that ‘still, small voice’ that is the Spirit of God.
I don’t see how you can create an intellectual discussion of God or Theology or those who speak prophetically, that excludes Scripture or one’s personal relationship with God through Jesus our Lord.
I agree, I have been hearing this stuff since the 70’s and I have yet to meet one person with claimed direct revelation from God that ever convinced me that their message was from God. What they claim either never comes true or it is so general and subjective that it is meaningless.
I think what happens with people like Wilkerson and Dani” el is that they brood over these things and think a lot about them and it fills their thoughts. Then they have a dream or a day dream about what they tend to brood about all the time and then they get some delusion that God is giving them a message about the future.
Presumed messages from God is a plague in charismatic circles. The more common “prophets” in these groups presume to have messages for those that they can impress and the gullible peer pressured brainwashed and biblically illiterate subjects eat it up.
The big shot “prophets” like Pat Robinson or Rick Joiner have a message for the Church and the world but nobody holds them accountable when their delusions are always wrong.
Sure, some things people say actually come true because it you make enough predictions the chances are that you will get something right especially if what you say is very general or subjective. For example, I can tell you San Francisco is going to have a major earthquake and be 100 percent correct. But, It won’t be because God told me, it is because I am aware of the geology of the area. I can tell you that San Francisco is going to be judged and it will probably happen in our time because I am aware of their increasing blasphemy toward God and their debauchery. It is not because I am some prophet.
I could tell you general things about the future of the world and probably get more than half of it right. I did some of that on my post yesterday talking about what I believe is coming under Obama and democrat rule. It is not because I am a prophet it is just because I am aware of where the elite liberals want to take the world. I bet I have a better record of predictions than any so called “prophet” in the church today. For example I predicted this financial collapse almost ten years ago but it was not because I am a prophet, the collapse had to happen because people started believing that speculation and gambling creates wealth.
The next two prophets from God that will give warning to the world will be the two mentioned in Revelation. The gift of Prophecy for the Church is for the building up of the body of Christ into maturity, it is not predicting the future or fortune telling.
Sam
I know what Wilkerson said in “The Vision” and I also read his book “Racing Toward Judgment” written in the 70’s. The only thing that came true is the general decline of the United States. Even I predicted that would happen as the nation departed from God and his moral law.
Wilkerson make dated prophecies that did not come true and then he says he was wrong. Prophets of God are not wrong.
His followers keep putting what he said in the future and ignore the exact details he said. Even I predicted the economic collapse and still predict the decline of the United States from being a superpower. Being aware of trends and dangers does not make me a prophet nor does it make David Wilkerson a prophet..
I wonder how people are going to test the spirit of the one prophesying if most people listening to these “prophecies” do not even know what God said in His word? The test of a prophet is that his prophecies must come true. Wilkerson in the past has not met that test.
In what time frame are you making that statement, Don? Your own personal time fame? Is that the pattern within Scripture, both OT and NT?
Pastor Wilkerson did not set dates, as in ‘the world will end in …/…/1988. True to the pattern of Biblical prophetic warnings, our Father is giving us time to repent and change……yet, He is saying (should this warning of P.Wilkerson, which is consistent with every message he has given to date, be from God) that God is saying that IT WILL HAPPEN, and with some very specific stuff as a sign, not only that it was God saying it but that P. Wilkerson was speaking accurately and is vindicated.
So, we wait and see.
Janis, I told you the time frame in whatever you are talking about. I make my prediction about the collapse of the economic system almost ten years ago. Just type “world debt” into Goggle and my article will come up as number one.
Janis, here are some documented dates for David Wilkerson’s prophecies that did not come true. Nobody ever said he predicted the world will end on any specific date.
http://www.geocities.com/asterisktom/wilkerson.html
Anyone with a Christian brain knows the world and America is heading for judgment and so does David Wilkerson but that does not mean he is getting any divine Revelation about specific events.
Well Daniel, I do wish you good luck and blessings at urging those in San Fransisco to repent from their sins but I very much doubt indeed that Luke 17:28-37 is in any way going to be fulfilled by San Fransisco and Los Angeles going up in flames when you leave the place. I’d have to see that first before I can believe you.
Janis, I’m not sure what to make of you refering to my comment as tongue-in-cheek. I really do believe that the charismatic gift of prophecy was for the early church, and may along with other gifts still occur among those who don’t have God’s word available to them as a way to assist the developing church there. Apart from that, I don’t believe these charismatic gifts still apply because I don’t see any need for them. Do you agree with that or not? I must admit that I find your comments rather confusing.
As far as Wilkerson is concerned, from what I’ve read about the man I can only say I respect him and his work as a pastor. But I think his “prophesy” is nothing new and I’ve been hearing this from so many people that I cannot simply take his word for it when he says the Spirit lead him to prophesize this. I’d say it’s just common sense for the most part. And like I said earlier, I don’t believe there’s any need for prophets anymore. All that is truly relevant to us is written down in the Bible. The Gospel is clear enough and doesn’t need additional prophets to warn people. It’s up to people to accept the truth of the Bible and repent from their sins. Also, none of what I say and believe implies that God himself has changed. However, things have changed for mankind since Christ’s sacrifice on the cross and because of that we are, for instance, no longer under the Mosaic Law, obliged to keep the dietary laws, sacrifice animals to atone for our sins, and so on. God’s way of manifesting Himself to this world changed but He remains the same.
And note that when I’m talking of prophets, I mean biblical prophets like Moses or Samuel who have received direct revelations from God to guide or warn Israel. I do not mean “secular” prophets. Those are either people with a lot of fantasy who would make me want to burst into Holy Laughter (tongue-in-cheek) OR it’s what some choose to call intelligent people whose predictions are based on observations, experience and knowledge rather than hocus pocus.
My apologies, I didn’t realize that I was talking to a prophet. And, yes, anyone who is thinking clearly (Christian ‘sound mind’) does realize that the gross and overt rejection of God’s Principles can only bring about bad and unpleasant results eventually. People have been watching America move in the same direction as the Roman Empire for years, as well as move towards Communism/Socialism step by step since Marx first promoted it.
My own interpretation of things according to the Word is that what we call Acts of God, or natural events (weather, volcanoes, earthquakes), are judgment. In the Old Testament, God also called other nations to attack and overthrow as His Judgment. God says that He is the one who raises up and also tears down nations, who establishes the times of things. He is ultimate Judge of all on and in the Earth.
However, what we have experienced in the financial realm is 100% caused by social engineering and greed of man, and we cannot blame God for that, as both of those things in action are contrary to the Ways of God that bring peace to the land.
He did promise that He would let his Prophets know BEFORE things would come to pass, also. Even in the simplest ways the Bible foretells us of consequences: If we do not forgive others, God cannot forgive us (for example). That kind of ‘forgive’ does not mean ‘codependent’.
I do believe that America is under Judgment, but that some things are literal Judgment of God (like Hurricane Ike), and others are simply God removing His Grace that has protected us (our national sins certainly have accumulated and made God unable to keep protecting us in the way we grew accustomed to) and that allows the natural consequences of our (national) choices, behaviors and actions to manifest. Crash.
Blessings.
Janis,
It is insulting to call me a prophet when I have stated many times that I am not a prophet. I am a watchman who studies world trends and Bible prophecy and I give best guess projections. The only person who claims to be a prophet on this thread just had some of his comments and the link to his blog removed because he is using these comments to promote his own self delusion. Many hundreds of people are reading this thread on Wilkerson and I do not need them going off to some loony land site.
At least David Wilkerson has earned the right to be taken seriously and I think his general message should be taken seriously even though I do not consider Wilkerson a prophet. However, I am aware that Wilkerson is an astute Christian and can see judgment coming. It certainly will. That general message needs to be taught because too many “Christians” think life under Obama will be just grand and they have become part of the problem.
So in a sense all who give warnings about the impending downfall of America (if the people of America do not repent) are giving the nation a prophetic message. However, when one gives specific details that did not come true like the details he gave for 1992, there is also no reason to believe Wilkerson has any divine revelation from God on the details of what will happen in the next few years. So again with this prophecy I think Wilkerson goes beyond due warning and interjects his own presumption. He may be a watchman on the wall but he is no prophet.
I agree that God has removed his hand off of America and we are now open to all sorts of calamity. Eventually it will get as bad as Wilkerson said or it could even get far worse. Like I said in my original post I do not think 30 days of food is sufficient. I suppose Wilkerson used that figure to try to make it fit his 1992 prophecy but it does not fit. By the way, I believe Wilkerson himself believes what he says. I do not at all put him in the same category as others like Robinson and Joiner.
I don’t think I insulted you. A Watchman is a seer — of things in the distance! The Watchman on the Wall. To others who can’t see what you and other Watchmen see, that is prophetic. I think your definition of ‘prophet’ is too small, you are reacting to something in our society rather than thinking it through. I want you to know that what I said does not lump you with the ‘prophetic movement’ that is so popular yet has moved into so much error, and I can fully understand your not wanting to be called ‘prophet’. (I don’t even like to be called ‘Christian’ for the same reasons!). Since when is God or His Spirit at the beck and call of a human being? We are to be listeners and if He chooses to speak (whether to us personally, intimately regarding our selves, or for others), He chooses. Revelation says that Jesus Himself is the Spirit of Prophecy, how else would we find our way back to our Father unless He called us and we were able to ‘hear’ Him and move toward Him?
I agree with you, and thank you for your analysis of Pastor Wilkerson.
Fair enough if you put it that way. Thanks for your comments.
I especially found this post interesting. Ever since the election I’ve spent so much time looking for “prophetic words” about what’s to come. And frankly some of the prophetic sites totally annoy me as they talk about nebulous things that have absolutely nothing to do with world events. Come on, tell me what’s going to happen this year, not some etherial, vague generality.
On the otherhand, some people like Mr. Wilkerson have a little more something to go on. I don’t know much about him but from what I hear he’s a respectable guy. I’m thinking about his word. But ultimately I’m perplexed with different people’s takes on judgement.
For example, I was reading in this book the other night how God brought judgement on America because of the past Administration’s stance towards dividing Israel up. The author of this book mentioned Hurricane Katrina, horrific tornado storms, floods and fires. And it does seem like he’s got a point at first. But here’s the thing guys.
Why do these judgements seem to fall on a young 22-year old Christian guy from smalltown Kansas who’s a soldier serving in the Middle East? You know what I mean? He’s the one who pays for the errors of the leaders. Why do these judgements, in particular with the massive amount of tornados the last couple of year seem to affect mostly Christians or areas where Christians seem to live or they seem to hit the common working man who’s a decent guy? And yet, the street thug who car jacks people or the evil CEO or the perverts who pump out lies in the media and school systems or the slimeball in the corridors of power seems to go unnoticed by God and actually seems to prosper? It doesn’t make sense. I’m starting to think that no judgement really comes in this life. In other words: Things just spiral out of control simply due the laws of physics and social dynamics. And that if Judgement is to come it comes at the Great Tribulation or after people pass on. Your thoughts?
Those tit-for-tat judgments where after every clammily in America something is looked for in our treatment of Israel is ridiculous and I have told the author so. What I said was not well received by him because those who think they have divine revelation cannot be corrected.
I guess he would have me believe that God judges just the nation of America in a tit-for-tat exchange on how how we deal with Israel primarily in the fall hurricane season? Never mind that we had hurricanes before Israel even became a nation again. Not to even mention that those running Israel are atheists and are all too ready to give up the land. These are not true Jews and God Himself would kick them out of His land if He did not have His own agenda for these last days.
In case anyone does not understand. God will judge the nations by how they treat Israel only after God starts dealing with Israel again in the time of Jacob’s trouble, the seventy week of Daniel. It will not be like the nations will have any excuse the two prophets will be preaching in Jerusalem and dealing with the nations for 42 months.
Calamities come because God allows it because we live in a fallen world. God is just. Natural events in this fallen world fall equally on the just and unjust, as well as does natural blessings such as wealth and rain. The real issue is what do you do when you are in the storm? Do you curse God and die? Or do you by faith wait on His deliverance. When you are receiving his blessings do you thank God and use it for the benefits of others or do you horde it and take credit for the blessings because you think you are so great?
It is not the trials we go through on earth that are important. What is important is your reaction to those trials.
Jesus talked about these things and said unless your righteousness exceeds those of the Pharisees will you go through these things.
God said that he will deal with evil people, they are not getting away with anything. Do not judge God’s justice by temporal events that you see on earth. Sometimes God judges evil through government and other people and even war and sometimes you will not see His judgment at all until the judgment day. But all things men do will certainly be judged by God.
Excellent!
People spend most of their time running here and there looking for a may or woman to give them truth or a ‘word’ from God, rather than going straight to God Himself and to the written Word that He left for us to study. Idol worship.
I have noticed thatf our God is not exclusive, and He has no special receivers on this end. When He broadcasts Truth that He wants us to hear, it comes through many different sources with the same message. Sort of like the ‘coincidental’ synchronization in the scientific world when great discoveries and inventions pop up at the same time in different parts of the world or through different and independent people. God is never unable to get His message out.
So it’s no wonder that many people are giving basically the same message.
Don, thank you for your response to “Open Your Eyes”. I think I am reading the same book yall have and have questioned the tit for tat judgements. A lot of wisdom and common sense in your answers. I like “What is important is your reaction to those trials”. Ain’t that the truth!
I’m 57 and have been thinking about the same things as Open Your Eyes since I was 22. The difference now is the evil is so much more widespread. Over the years I have asked God if He will have to apoligze to Sodom and Gommorah for the sodomy, abortion, and other evil things in America, and now worldwide. One day I sensed the Spirit saying “God is not willing that any should perish”. Thank God He is allowing more to enter his Kingdom before the trumpet sounds.
Keep up the good work, Don.
May the Lord bless Open Your Eyes and bring him home safely.
Thanks Bill,
Your correct, God’s grace for the Gentiles not wishing that anyone should perish is the reason for the delay of Jesus for almost two thousand years. When that period of grace is complete God will deal with the nation of Israel and all evil on the earth.
God must also have given Sodom and Gomorrah quite a while to repent. Lot was in the land so I am sure he contended often with the leaders of the city. A city does not go to open homosexual rape all in one shot. They progressively got more evil until the whole city even went beyond allowing open homosexuality and gay pride parades to allowing gang raping of the innocent.
I came in late. Sam, Don has studied practically everything and you need to read his whole website! He has a real good grasp of the future of this continent; maybe we should all emigrate back to Europe! Except, the news shows that evil is worldwide….
Nasrani and Dani’El– God does still have real prophets. And yes, prophets are seers: they see the future. Janis, Don wants us to call him a watchman, not a prophet, even tho he certainly is a seer.
God’s prophets are called by God, they do not just decide to become one–and please, don’t let’s get into an argument about the necessity of revelation or the necessity of priesthood ordination; there is no room for it here, and anyone who wants to see my point of view can go to mormon.org for it, OK?
Concerning Rev 22:19, well, look up these also! [I use the KingJames]
Deut 4:2 & 12:32 Prov 30:6 2Chr 26:22 Dan 12:4 Amos 3:7 The old ones who put the
BIBLEography together, deliberately put Revelations last, to prevent any more arguments over what is scripture and what is not, but Rev 22:19 is NOT the only place that we are told not to add to the scriptures. I have no idea why; I always figured it was to keep men’s ideas out of God’s established word.
As far as SanFrancisco and LA, they don’t have to go up in flames. Eventually, the earthquake faults along the west coast will remove them from the continent, just as the east coast faults will remove the Sodom & Gommorra of New York,etc. Don probly knows that.
I was not going to comment anymore until I got rid of this grouchy face that Gravitar dumped on me, but I guess I’m stuck with it; their support tech said I have to send one of my own, and I have no idea how, or desire to learn how, to do that; just know that my real soul picture is a bouquet of yellow roses, OK?
i am not a prophet. I am just a Christian that keeps up with what is going on in the world and the signs for fulfillment of Bible prophecy. When God’s wrath comes on the world it is going to be worldwide and not just on the US coasts. That certainly does not mean that God cannot judge our nation before that day. In fact, I think it is obvious that God is already dealing with this nation because of our wickedness.
I certainly do not recommend that anyone go to Mormon.org to find truth. In fact you might go to http://www.thepropheticyears.com/cults/mormons.HTM to find out why I think you don’t want to go there.
Marie it is really not hard to change your face. Try typing in a different email address when you make a comment and the program will assign a different one that probably even looks worse 🙂 It does not have to be a valid address.
To have your own picture just sign up with gravatar.com and follow the instructions and upload any picture you want. That means you put some picture on your hard drive or a cd and at gravator.com you browse to where your file is located on your system and when you find the file you allow their program to upload the picture to their site. After you do that your picture will follow you wherever you post.
Marie, of course you don’t agree with my concentric/classic cessationism. If you did you could not possibly believe in your false prophet Mormon. Basically your religion and the many Pentecostal and other so-called “Christian” cults that exist today are exactly why I believe the cessationists are right.
While I have absolutely no problem respecting Mormons as individuals, I can’t say your religion is Christian and I can’t approve of what you are teaching because it is a heretical departure from the true faith. Your concept of prophets and “seers” are inspired by the book of Mormon – not the Bible. Your religion is a pelagian perversion of the Faith. You do not accept the Nicean creed and you depict the Father and the Son as separate. Salvation is an “exaltation” and according to your religion you are not saved by grace alone. The Church of LDS is not the true Catholic Church, the universal and invisible body of those who have been saved by Christ.
I also pointed out that I make a distinction between a “prophet” in the Biblical sense of the word, and what the world chooses to call a “prophet.” In the “secular” sense of the word, a person like Don might be called a prophet, yes. But – and I say this with all due respect – that doesn’t make Don a prophet in the biblical sense of the word, as in a person who received a direct revelation from God. However, since you are a Mormon you are speaking of prophets and seers from your Mormon perspective and quite obviously it doesn’t match with the Biblical concepts but it does seem quite compatible with the secular ones.
Don is not a seer in your Mormon sense of the word because he is not “a perceiver of hidden truth.” There are no hidden truths in Christianity or the Bible. The Bible is not an esoteric book. Christianity is a revealed and exoteric “religion”. The whole point of prophecy is passing God’s revelations to all mankind.
Lastly, I’d like to add that I believe the only real Biblical-sense prophets the world is ever going to see in the future are the two witnesses Revelation speaks of. Why? Because Revelation says God will ordain them and they will be granted extraordinary powers. I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe in any other self-proclaimed prophets. It would add nothing to my faith nor would it make my salvation any more secure.
As for your claims about the last verses of the book of Revelation, the book of Revelation was the last book to be included in the Bible. While it is true the verses may only apply to this particular book, that doesn’t mean that the Book of Mormon has any right to be added to the Bible. The book is simply incompatible with the other books in the Bible – both in its historic context and as far as its content and teachings are concerned. The other verses you gave me are taken out of context. In Deuteronomy God commands the Israelites not to change the Law. In Revelation Christ is warning us not to alter the prophecies outlayed in the book of Revelation. It makes perfect sense to have Revelation as the last book in the Bible. It was the last revelation of Christ to man before His second coming and the youngest book of all those included in the Bible. It is also the only book written after Jesus’ first coming to deal exclusively with future events and Christ’s second coming. It makes perfect sense to have it as the last book. I think it’s no coincidence the words spoken to us in chapter 22 are there.
Don: I don’t believe Christians who trust in the lord’s daily provisions should follow the lead of cults and false religions and stock up on food supplies; that tends to give a message that we do not trust the lord to provide, he gives us more than we need on a day to day basis. David Wilkerson did make a prophecy about PTL and it did come to pass, not trying to put a prophet’s tag on him, now you have people like Pat Robertson who said Castro would die before the year 2000; well…… we are still waiting aren’t we ?
I think that statement is a little simplistic. What did Joseph do in Egypt knowing that seven lean years were coming? What did people do before electricity? They stocked up for the winter and for bad years. It is only prudent action to have some reserves for lean times. Especially today because of our foolish reliance on man’s modern technology for even basic survival. Even the Department of Homeland Security is telling everyone to have three months food on hand.
God will provide for His own but you can listen to his watchmen’s warnings and prepare now for the lean times coming yourself or do nothing and stand in government run soup lines or depend on other Christians that did prepare. Our modern just-in-time inventories could fail at any time due to loss of electricity or for other reasons.
I have been reading David Wilkerson’s prophecies about judgment on America for over thirty years and have yet to see any of his specific prophecies come true. Nevertheless, I think Wilkerson is a Christian and I believe he just takes the things he obsesses over as being visions from God like many other Pentecostals. All astute true Christians know in the Spirit that judgment will come because of America’s increasing perversions and lawlessness. I think judgment is already upon America and it will get much worse unless there is national repentance.
I totally believe this country is about to see the judgment of God. It is long over-due. The seeds it has sown it has reaped in more ways than ones.
The Church here is sleep and luke-warm and pleasure lovers with a form of God for the most part. There is always a remnant that God has that are actually living righteous before God in the midst of hell, but this is only a handful out of the many here.
The sooner God sends fire, the sooner and closer we are to the return of the Lord. I say COME LORD JESUS, QUICKLY.
If you are not tied to the love of this world you have nothing to fear because your hope does not lie in anything in this passing world but CHRIST alone.
Repent for the Kingdom of God is surely at hand. Believe it or not.
I believe we have been judged for the last forty years or more, unwinnable wars, riots, fires earthquakes, storms like Katrina tearing up sin city on a weekend the homosexuals were
having a large convention, how about Californis fires ? Their deficit of about thirty billion dollars, and ours ? Across the US, it is difficult to find a state in the black, I can name only one; Alaska, with an eleven billion dollar budget; they had a surplus of five billion and they reward the taxpayers there with their own stimulus of up to $2000 dollars a family a year, the
difference in a praying woman and Godly christian who practices physical discipline in their finances and not a waster, our govt is further putting us in jeopardy with God with a so called two state solution for Israel; Bush was pushing it to the letter and funding ours and Israel’s enemies and pressuring them to give up their land for a peace that just will not happen, Obama admin. wants them to give up 1/3 of Jerusalem, that will be the last straw.
I don’t believe it will happen with Benjamin Natanyahu as Prime minister.
I agree Clarence, we have been judged already. Those were just previews of what is to come. I believe God was sending us signs and warnings, but of course, we just rebuild and go back to living in sin and ignoring God. I believe what we will see, will be ten times Hurricane Katrina…
I just saw on the news tonight; two Russian submarines [nuclear] were patrolling off of our East Coast; we don’t know what is going to happen to the US in the near future; the rapture could happen at any time and I believe when it does; the church is gone, God may allow America to suffer a nuclear attack, we don’t know what tomorrow holds, when the church is gone, all that will be left is liberals and haters of the things of God and Jesus Christ, they hate us now, Jesus said they would, because they hated him first, I am hoping my family will all go, but some of them sure does need to repent and be saved and some to to repent of their back-slidden ways and turn back to God before it is too late; I believe in eternal security the way it is taught by the bible and not defined by Calvinest Dogma, if we know he can come at any moment, we will live as pure as we can and obey the holy spirit as he directs us; Hebrews 9:28 unto them who look for him a second time; shall he appear without sin unto salvation[not practicing sin].
Well said Nikki. America is in for some tough times, in more ways than one.
Amen Frank….
Clarence, it has been prophesied that America will be invaded by Russia and even maybe China at some point. I personally do not believe that God is going to rapture the ‘Church” out of here anytime soon at all, and not before we see America lose it’s super power. America becoming a land of desolation and destruction is no sign that the rapture is near. I personally do not believe that God is going to rapture a dysfunctional dark Church off the earth when we are not ready for marriage to Christ as of yet. Not to mention God has plans to use a remnant of believers walking in the power of God as seen in the book of Acts again right here on earth during the darkest of times. That is on the way…But God is in the process of refining and putting FIRE to burn away all that is not like him.
We have forgotten and for the most part many do not even realize that their being here on earth and a Christian is for God’s purposes and not theirs.We were PREDESTINED to be shaped into the image of CHRIST so that the KINGDOM OF GOD is working through us coming to earth to bring change and a LIGHT to darkness. I will leave that part alone for now….
We must go through birthpains and enter into the Kingdom of God through tribulation. God is setting the stage to REFINE his CHURCH, and get it down to the Remnant. There are going to be many who will fall away during these rough times because they have believed that God does not want them to suffer and go through anything. The false doctrines and lies particularly preached here in the West. Through these times God will have a remnant of people who will stand up for righteouness even in the midst of chaos and threats of death and all sorts of persecution.
Christians in the West can get ready, because we will face persecution for our faith. The tares and wheats God is going to separate. Not everybody saying Lord, Lord knows the Lord. Many will not stand up for the sake of being persecuted, and will turn away from the Lord when things get rough here. When many are walking around looking for shelther and food they will learn to trust God then, God will have their full attention then. When the pleasures of this world are taken from them almost overnight, they will either CURSE GOD or PRAISE HIM anyway and SERVE him anyway.
I believe in the end though during the worst of the tribulation when people are about to destroy themselves and the earth the Lord will have to end it or else even the elect will not make it.
I hear of the prophecy of David Wilkerson, but never actually read it until a few days ago. The truth is, I look back and realize that the Lord did not allow me to see things so clearly just the start of this year. He was giving me signs and such, but he was waiting to show me himself.
I now understand the prophecy of Wilkernson. I know that by the end of this year there will be great calamity right here in the United States. I do not know what exactly will take place, but I know that soon and very soon and by the end of the year we will see some serious major events take place in this country. It is going to come soon and suddenly and catch the majority alsleep and off guard. As people are going about their business doing business as usual is when it will happen.
Judgment begins in the House of the Lord, it is first for the BELIEVER IN CHRIST to awake out of its sleep and slumber and to grow into the maturity in Christ.
For so long we have thought that life was all about pleasure and such..I now understand more an more this scripture. This is not all for the world, he was speaking of the Body of Christ that looks just like the ‘world’. Lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God, a form of God and no POWER,..no real relationship, no substance, no depth. Just lip service, a quick confession that I believe in Jesus, but no life altering power in ones life. No sign that Christ lives in you….This is where we are at, and this is one reason the Lord is about to shake EVERYTHING that can be shaken in this country. Every idol will be removed, everything we put in place of God and love more than him will be tested and shaken to the core. It is on the way. Jesus Christ is the ARK of safety….and he did not promise ANYBODY they would not suffer, or even suffer persecution and trials and tribulations for HIS NAME..He said he did and we will likewise and take up your cross and follow him. DIE TO SELF DAILY…Be renewed by the transforming of your minds, taking on the mind of Christ…This is only done through DEATH TO SELF and FIRES of tribulations and trials.
2 Timothy
1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
We go on about our lives here not paying any attention to the signs or the voice of the Holy Spirit because the majority of us are SLEEP and so in love with the world but an ‘End of Vanity Fair’ is on the way for us here. The majority of the Church is preaching lies and deception to itchy ears who say Prophesy PEACE, we want to hear something good when God is saying, “There is no peace to prophecy of” They will judged even harder for not preparing God’s people for the coming calamity and preparing them to be real Servants and followers of Christ.
We think we know trials, we don’t know trials and tribulations in this country, not yet anyway. We can wake up to fresh food and water ( the most of us here ) and take it all for granted. We wake up to oil to put in our cars and homes, we can shop and buy the finest and say WE ARE RICH, WE HAVE NEED OF NOTHING. But God is saying to the America Church, You are blind and naked…come and buy from me gold that has been tried in fire ( symbolic of being purified through hardships ) and then you will be able to SEE.
This is the American Church all the way. The Church of Laodicea…
Revelation 3:14-22
14″To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”
Nikki: who made a prophecy about who would invade America ? Why critique David Wilkerson and then fill in someone else’s name ? China don’t have to invade us; if we fail to pay them their trillion dollars we owe them; they own us, thanks to our hard working politicians who have sold America out . And just because we can look around at all the churches who preach false doctrine and heresey, does not mean there are not a remnant
church out there that walks with the lord, personally I have had quite a few trials and tribulations, the lord puts us through various trials to test us, alot of mine was very difficult, and some trials are self inflicted, I love the lord, his word, his house and there is no other life than living for him; James said: be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves, daily I make an alter in my home, if you want to see and hear some real preaching; go to centralchurchofgod.org and our choir, I have yet to see anyone match their anointed singing, we are large[over 7000 members] but it was not what we strived for, have the same minister from inception except for his father-in-law, who is deceased, this man tells it like it is, our choir flies to spain each year for a mission tour along with our orchrestra,
his daughter is a missionary in Mongolia, his wife just came back from Eygpt, it is an exciting church, we are a church Jesus would be proud of, and he is there each Sunday. Our choir is also on u-tube; [central church of god choir] we believe the lord is coming back for those who are looking for him[Hebrews 9:28] this rapture killing doctrine nowadays is causing people to give up hope and turn away from the lord[backslide]. If one is not looking for him; he is not coming for him or her. The condition of the world makes the time ripe for his return[violence and corruption] the two words that brought the wrath of God on the first world, the church is not going through the wrath of God[tribulation] hope you don’t believe that, the bible bears it out, forget all the books that are written, the bible is the only book we can depend on.
Hi Clarence..
What do you mean why critique David Wilkerson? I believe he is on target in many ways. As for the prophecy about the invasion that is something I heard actually just recently and either way prophecy or not, it is very possible that it could happen…and I won’t be surprised if it did at some point.
Please do not misunderstand when I say “Church” I am not speaking of every church or every believer in Christ.I am speaking about those who are false, of course there are some TRUE ‘houses of God ‘ out there..But when I speak of “Church” at times, I am speaking of individual believers ( because we are the temple of God–the Church ) and I am speaking of those false churches. There are always a number of people ( remnant) even within many churches that are not walking according to the statues of God. The tares and wheat do grow together.
As a whole the CHURCH ( believers ) in America are asleep, most of them are. It is is very obvious, I am not saying anything that the Lord is not saying right now. I am not saying anything that anybody with the Holy Spirit can not see and discern for themselves. We are no different from the world in many ways and God has to allow the fires to purify his Body of Believers, it is needed and badly.
For those who are playing church and false, God will deal with them accordingly.
Yes, we all have faced tribulations on this earth, God knows I have my own story too. That is not the issue though for the most part. For the most part, the Body of Christ in this country is in bad shape in many ways, and there is a remnant that truly seeks the Lord while the rest are asleep an playing.
Oh, to answer your question about the who made the prophecy. I was reading it on a website by John Johnston not long ago.
I have news, China does not even have the capabilities to launch a successful invasion of Taiwan, yet invade the United States. The only people who are going to invade the USA and are now invading the USA are called illegal aliens.
Also, when you talk about the Church you might make a clearer distinction between the Church and those that just identify with Christianity. God will not judge the Church since their sins are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. He corrects the Church because they are His Children. The Church receives tribulation from the world because the world hates us but this is not from God.
God is going to deal with MANY who call themselves the Church, believers or whatever word you want to use. The ones who ‘identify’ with Christ and claim to live for him.
God is going to take us Christians through a refining period where he continues to kill us of all that is not like him.
A period of refining us ( by using what the enemy sends ) to make us into the image of Christ. Many are going to fall away from the faith because they will not want to endure it, they will say God has forsaken us.
That is what is going to happen whether one believes it or not. It is on the way.
God will use Americas own enemies as well to judge us. That is the judgment that will come.
The judgment of God also begins in the House of the Lord. God has taken care of our sins with his Son, but that does not mean we are what God wants us to be. There is still much work to be done to refine us and shape us. We will enter into the Kingdom of God through many tribulations. Ready or Not, it is coming.
I may be wrong about China, that is not even my speciality to talk on to be honest.
But the religious who do not want to come out of their comfort zones and follow God all the way God will deal with.
He will refine us through the fires of life to shape us into the IMage of Christ. So, we will be shaken out of our comfort zones to a level many do not expect.
That is what it is ALL about at the end of the day anyway.
Nikki,
True Christians do not fall away from the faith. We are new creations of God kept in the body of Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. Who can separate us from the Love of God? Some of what you are saying seems to convey legalism. It seems to me that you do not understand that the Church is under God’s grace.
Why is everything about America anyway and why just this generation of Christians and not the Christians that have been lacking in many ways for almost two thousand years? You like to say that the judgment of God begins with the House of the Lord and then build a latter day theology of judgment on the Church upon that passage in Peter. But the passage in 1 Peter chapter four in context is talking about the persecution Christians would endure for their faith now that they have become Christians. It is not talking about judgment from God on the Church.
You also talk in specifics like you have inside knowledge of when and how the judgments will come on America but I sincerely doubt that. Having said that, I am not saying that judgment will not come on America but I certainly am not buying into your theology that there will be judgment on the Church causing true Christians to fall away from the faith. I hope nobody else is either.
Well, Don, I guess I am talking about those who claim to be followers of Christ falling away. There are many who say Lord, Lord who do not know the Lord.
I believe it is really obvious at the state of the Church in general in America ( I am not speaking of every single believer of course ). For the most part we have fallen into the worlds ways in more ways than one.
Christians will endure persecution for their faith. That is another issue I believe, that has nothing to do with judgment I am speaking of.
Judgment is to get the Body of Christ back to the heart of the Father, Judgment is to bring many to the Father. That is the point of it.
I know many who take the Grace of God and confuse it with the discipline and correction of God. Whom he loves he corrects and chastine.
Unfortunately, anytime you speak of repentance and getting back to the Lord people always want to talk about Grace as if God does not require a certain ‘character’ in his people.
Nobody wants to preach repent or hear we need to repent and get back to God. Oh well, that is God’s business and I believe he will use the enemy works of evil to accomplish a purpose in his people in this country. The enemy is nothing more than a tool in God’s hands.
I understand Grace, and it is because of Grace and his love that he will bring correction to the Body of Christ, it is needed.
I am speaking of the many who will fall away during the rough times because they have been accustomed to comfort and will believe the Lord has failed them. I believe this will come from many who have believed false teachings of many of these denominations and such..and just an overall wrong view of God, Christianity and life.
I would think that you would have a better understanding of what I am speaking of, I am surprised in a way honestly.
I do understand the Grace of God totally. But, I think what you do not understand is the REFINING work of God to push his children into MATURITY.
That is what it will all boil down too. Many will not want to endure the process.
Do you believe that God will allow calamity and also use it to refine and shake his people out of their sleep which continues to bring about the plans of God on earth?
Do you believe the God of the NT is the same God of the OT and he does not change.
Do you think everything just happens and God does not have a plan to use any of it to correct and mature and refine his Bride?
I am not sure what you believe, but it is possible we just see things totally different.
There is quite a difference between God’s correction of His children and judgment. I will agree that God will correct His people. I will not agree that God will bring the kind of judgment that you have been inferring in this post on His elect (the Church). The only judgment the Church of God will receive is at the judgment seat of Christ to give account for what we did in our bodies good or bad and that is a judgment of rewards and taking away of rewards.
The answer is yes yes and no and if you continue to use the word correction instead of judgment we would not have an issue. I butted in only because you kept claiming that God would bring judgment on the Church (the elect) on earth. He will not. The elect are His beloved children. The Judgment of God is against the wicked not the righteous Church washed in the blood of the Lamb.
The heart rate of the American people is beating faster. Given liberals are driven by emotional fuel and by the spiritual powers that control high places we are headed for a disaster in America.
Spiritually discerned people pray and by the power of the Holy Spirit we keep our rage inside. How does the brute beast living on American soil handle this show of solidarity from those that want to preserve God ordained American liberty -when they want global peace and harmony without God?
We are headed for a civil war and David Wilkerson may have hit the nail on the head. Those on the right i.e. Republicans are actually the ones serving as the catalyst to this coming date with riots and bloodshed.
While the intention is to preserve liberty- and liberty is a shade of that which is good -this Country has to a tragic degree failed to understand that it is God alone that preserves all that is good in our Country because we glorify Him and we love and fear Him. Where the Spirit of the Lord is- there is liberty.
From the pubic assembly during the tea parties opposing the bailouts, now to the growing gatherings at town hall meetings opposing National health care- people are growing angry and frustration is growing.
This frustration will lead to police intervention. Police intervention will lead to a Federal mandate by the Obama administration to squash the ‘civil disobedience’. If this does not stop, this mandate will grow into ‘justifiable federal action’ toward the use of the National Guard on a State level to intervene in any attempt to speak out against OUR OWN government.
The ‘right to assemble peaceably’ will be denied because of issues involving ‘national security’ and then the riots come. When the riots come, Obama will not hesitate to institute Marshal Law. Will people then say ‘how did we get here???’
There is no peace without God. America will not survive when our Constitution is held by the masses not as a protective document penned by men who feared God- but as a weapon against global unity. America will not survive if those professing to know God fail to give God His glory by sharing His Truth to the unsaved.
Those who love and fear God need to get on bended knee and pray for the future of this Country at this time because Satan is using the coward that buries God in the ‘conservative movement’ just as much as he is using the baby murdering ‘liberal agenda’ propagator .
It is not the Government I fear. It is the damage that the person that claims to know God will do in the face of opportunity to please God who happens to be an American at a critical time when our Nation is ripe with hostility. This will determine that future of this Country.
Satan is given nothing without given it first by God. God gives authority to Satan when WE REJECT GOD.
May God call His members who happen to be American’s to repent, pray, and trust His Word to save this Country -inspite of the cruel authority that we have asked for and voted for.
Wes Hazlett
Bodyguard7 Christian Apologetics
I am in agreement West..
When you reject God, satan will have authority to do as he pleases.
An attempt to make sure liberty is saved will result in the taking away of liberties as we know it. There is not such thing as peace without the Prince of Peace ruling the nations.
‘Western Christianity’ is done- no more will the lukewarm and the cowards escape the godless of this Country.
Almighty God is allowing the outward symbols of Christianity in America to be destroyed, erased, and removed because Almighty God is NOT IN THE INWARD parts of the fake and cowardly who presuppose to need the symbol to confirm the power of the invisible God!
Make sure that your faith is in GOD and not the false gods of America that the ambedextrous Satan has hurled in front of the hearts of the deluded and deceived.
Make sure that your faith is not in the left or the right- but the Lord God of Hosts. Conservatism is about to crumble to ashes because ‘religious’ men have hid behind the Constitution rather than under the shadow of the Almighty.
We drudge the faith of our founding fathers into conversation as though talking about the faith of our founding father’s converts the hearts of the leaders of this Nation from the grave.
Satan has duped millions into thinking that the ‘good’ fight comes from fighting against the left and assembling in a tea party rally. Oh how foolish. How foolish have we become in America to think that holding fast against liberalism is what saves a Nation.
“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” 2 Chronicles 7:14
Almighty God has sold America and Western Christianity has COLLAPSED because it has vomited out the confusion of greed from its mega churches, gone after saviors of America rather than God the Savior, polluted the world with corrupt gospels, and confounded the spiritually unlearned with contradictory bible versions when God is not a God of confusion.
God has revealed much to those who love and fear Him about the coming events in the USA.
There is a certainty that the wrath of Almighty God has been kindled against America- and Satan is working hard to throw the fool’s gold of conservatism in the stead of repentance and a turning away from our wicked ways.
God is revealing much and God wants to get the attention of those that have an ear to hear what the Spirit is revealing about the horrific future of this Nation upon a people that reject, refuse, and deny the ROCK that formed it.
TRUST the WORD OF GOD.
The Wrath of God abides on Nation’s that tempt Him. America has been sold to Satan by God Himself- should we marvel at how the watered down gospel of Osteen fail to win people to Christ? Should we expect not to be judged by God when Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, Jehovah’s Wtinesses, and others have spewed out confusion of who Jesus is? Should we presuppose that God is working through Rush Limbaugh as though God is wrapped in Reaganomics? Should we expect to appease God when America’s Protestant Churches are now defiled with homosexual teacher’s of the law? Should we ask God to bless us financially when our megachurch leaders are lavishing in gold?
Make sure you are known by God upon His return. His wrath has been kindled.
I see truth here mixed with s lot of hyperbole. The Conservatives, Patriots, and Christian Right in our nation have not been perfect by a long shot, but compared to the Left they are lights shining in the darkness. Broad-brushing all these people like you are doing even if it is mixed with some truth is not helpful and it can be a lie. I know of many churches and Christians in America that continue to stand on the Rock and many also identify in one way or another with the groups that you attacked.
Wes you are 100% correct ! Preach it ! Most American Christians have turned to whatever feels good for the moment, like my ex-wife. Sadly, most will be disappointed. Not to mention answer to the Lord for their “a whoring” after the false Osteen God of materialism and “name it and claim it” Christianity.
Don,
I am not implying that we have not been given a mind or that God does not give us wisdom to build a better machine- what I am saying is that ‘Conservianity’ has heaped up false gods just as much as the Obama is to liberalism.
Rush Limbuagh, Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, and many others will not be able to use the Constitution in the future to ‘spark’ a revolution to save this Country. God is not a side-dish or a part of our revoery. HE IS THE ROCK THAT FORMS A COUNTRY.
It must be God through people that humble themselves before God, repent, trust the truth, turn from our wicked ways, and forsake the false gods that Satan is using to glaze over the eyes of the godless in America.
God is revealing much at this time. We have become a chameleon as a Nation- apologizing for our prosperity that GOD ALONE gave us. We have bowed down to false religion and are now filled with the cancer of cultures that God detests- cultures that worship animals and believe myths. We are now watching them parade in our streets and EVEN IN OUR CHRISTIAN COLLEGES.
Don, the Spirit is revealing much.
With that I agree.
Oh the fear….oh the panic…….. oh the madness! We cannot have antichrist President Barack Obama proselytizing his lies in our classrooms to our children!
Guess what people, WE ASKED FOR IT. Christians– or dare I say, cowards masquerading as Christians have hid under rocks so GOD has given Satan the authority to teach this Nation’s children that we came from a rock.
If we know the Lord God Almighty- we are hid in Christ— not hiding from the world….
Colossians 3:3-6
[3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
[4] When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
[5] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
[6] For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
We teach the power of God to create the universe and the earth in six days in Sunday school only to make it a myth that succumbs to the public educational tripe that concludes we are the result of a cosmic explosion. AND WE MARVEL that an antichrist in the White House has the moxy to speak to this nation’s children in the school system that cowards have given Satan?
“Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.”
Supposedly at least HALF the Country are ‘Christian’ yet we cannot keep the teaching that we are descended from monkey’s out of public textbooks that we have to pay for– as people who fear God who made both the monkey and man??
Do you think the godless would submit to paying for bibles in the classroom? WE LAUGH AT THAT! Yet Christians are paying for God to be REMOVED from the public school! And we marvel that Barack Obama is going to be speaking his American savior message to America’s school children?
Because cowards in this Country have been so afraid to stand in the strength of the Word of God now God is sliding the rug out because He is disgusted in being a foot rug for weak and lukewarm Christians.
Ephesians 6:10-18
[10] Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
[11] Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
[12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
[13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
[14] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
[15] And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
[16] Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
[17] And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
[18] Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
If you are afraid you need to pray this prayer so the child you have raised may, by God’s grace, by filled with a spirit of power and of a sound mind to deflect the darts of the evil one- because they are flying hot through the school system because of cowardly inaction from those that have claimed to know God. God has now given Satan that realm of authority.
ARE YOU SCARED OF SATAN TAKING YOUR CHILD’S MIND?
PRAY THIS AND MEAN IT.
Lord God Almighty, my Maker and Redeemer in the Lord Jesus the Christ,
Please forgive me for fearing what man can do. Please forgive me for failing to train my child up in the way of the Lord. Lord Please forgive me for failing to trust Your Spirit to work in my child. Please forgive me for being a coward and being scared to live out my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, my Creator, at work or in the company of friends and strangers. Lord Jesus, I repent of my sins Lord and pray for wisdom in your Word and I pray for the hearts and minds of my child or children to be turned to their Father in heaven so that they may have a boldness to live and even die for you- Lord Jesus. In the name of the Lord Jesus the Christ, I pray- Amen.
God has power over the godless to even accomplish His own will. That is happening at this very moment because those who are called by HIS NAME have vomited and spewed gospels that do not Save. They have abandoned the spiritual places that God has given us through the faith of those who have lived out their faith before us in this land.
Satan cannot do anything without first having permission by God and God is the Head of ALL the powers and principalities that be. When men refuse God, angels who are are much greater in power than us, have power of that which we refuse God. May God give His members patience and endurance and…
Looks like you ran out of words Wes.
Sorry but there is a 5000 letter limit for any comment. You should see a counter on the comment page.
It’s funny to see people still talking about Old Testament Prophets. John the Baptist was the last and the Greatest of the Old Testament prophets Matthew 11-9-11. Who is David Wilkerson then?. Acts 2-17 is a good chapter to read. Prophecy is not something that always happen over night. It took some prophecies 400 years and longer to be fulfilled. What does the word Prophet mean for the Old Testament? Spokesman. Many people have misunderstand the ministry of the prophet in the Old Testament. God used 8 other people beside the prophets to be a spokesman for him in the Old Testament. The main ministry of the prophets in the Old Testament was to announce the coming of the Messiah!. New Testaments prophets are called Teachers and Preachers, but they function different from the 5 fold ministry. New Testament prophets do not lead the church as some of the Old Testament prophets did, Hebrews 1-1-2.
Some of what you are saying is not correct the five fold ministry to equip the church are apostle, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. It makes no sense to say prophets are teaches and pastors when they are specifically named separate from them.
Old Testament true prophets spoke as God gave them utterance and some passage still are not fulfilled today, nevertheless they will all come true.
I also disagree on your other rather dogmatic statements about prophets.
I hope Mr. Wilkerson is wrong. I don’t remember reading about any riots and cities being burned down during the Great Depression of the 1930’s. History shows us that Americans worked together to overcome the Great Depression. Also, right after 9-11, Americans worked hard together to overcome that attack. So I think Americans will work hard to overcome our current mini-depression. We will have a new congress next year which will be less liberal. That should help our nation for the next two years. However, 2012 will be a pivotal year. Will America turn left or right in the election of 2012?
For the record, I love Mr. Wilkerson’s ministry and I’ve enjoyed some of his books like The Cross and the Switchblade.
David Wilkerson never has claimed to be a prophet; but he has made predictions that sure came true; how about the riots in L. A. and they went on a killing spree and almost burned most of the city down and robbing stores at random; he also got it right about PTL; he said the birds would build their nests in the windows of those condo’s that Jim Bakker oversold to all those chumps who ran foolhardy after him; some even quit their jobs and sold their houses and followed him out to Branson Mo., where he is doing it all over again; I believe David Wilkerson’s life and ministry speaks for itself; he lives what he preaches; when 911 happened, he was not invited, and he probably would not have went if he was to all of that religious mix of ecumenicals and Christ deniars; they would not have liked what he would have said, if he had went; reminds me of the kind of mix that will take place when the rapture happens; all of them looking for answers among themselves, about where did everybody go ? Probably blame alieans for all the saints being gone.I have yet to find fault with anything this man has done for almost thirty years I have supported him, all while many questions arose on ministries that are well known to most folks; some of which have the trust of many people; some are recorded on Youtube.
You really think this selfish Baby Boomer generation of government dependents would not riot and loot given half a chance? Take away the food stamps and the unemployment benefits and there would be riots in the street right now.
How can Americans work hard to overcome a mini-depression when their jobs no longer exist?
Congress is not going to solve anything.
I also do not care if America turns Far Right in 2012 the same debt and entitlement reality will hit them in the face and if they try to cut benefits to those that are dependent on them there will be riots, followed by martial law and more governmental abuses of power.
This is not a Left or Right issue. There is no human solution for the inevitable crises that are coming our way. Those that think a US election is going to solve the problems of a world gone mad are sadly mistaken.
Why throw Wilkerson under the bus? While he is warning Americans to wake up, most pastors are ordering thicker cushions for their flocks. America is being judged because of it’s rebellion against it’s creator and this has happened because materialistic Americans don’t want to be led by the Holy Spirit. They love the world and are being led by the prince of this world straight to Hell. The pastors also have been guilty of preaching easy believism and that the law has passed away, nailed to the cross. Jesus said, “heaven and earth would pass away before one jot or tittle of HIS law would pass away”. Yes, it’s still wrong to kill, lie and steal.(even though we’re not saved by keeping the law) Dolph
I did not throw Wilkerson under the bus. He is a good watchmen but he is not a prophet in the biblical sense.
Americans in general don’t have the Holy Spirit so they cannot be led by Him.
Most pastors I know and heard preach the curse of the Law was nailed to the cross, not the Law. Nor do they preach that the Law has passed away.
I would agree with Scofield’s prophecy expert, Arno Gaebelein, that any attempt to improve the world without the cross is a waste of time. Conservative, liberal or Tea Party not withstanding. The massive problems the world faces all have spiritual roots, ie, rebellion against God’s everlasting covenant.
Solid points Dolph.
America is woefully inadequate to stand on its own feet against the righteousness of God.
History is repeating itself in a different land following the death (and Resurrection) of the Testator. There are a lot of parallels between ancient Israel and America.
The Scriptures reveal about all the times that God sent a prophet to warn Israel of its rebellion and abominable ways. Almighty God has been warning modern day man for years through the record of Scripture and the voices of His people about the future of a Nation that forsakes God.
The Word of God is the truth.
Nothing new in America ceasing to be a superpower, or having no impact on the world scene way back in the fifties Bible Students of prophecy said that America was not in Bible prophecy and because of internal problems would be focusing on herself and not the world.
Also regarding events of the last days, the days that precede the coming of our Lord Jesus, God will fulfil every Word He has spoken in His way, what we as Christians should be doing is watching (taking note of events) and making sure that we are ready to meet the Lord be by translation or through the grave, and we do this by living a life in obedience to the words and commands of Jesus Christ.
Bob, I would agree. My favorite definition of a Christian is: Those who are led by the spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Dolph
It is with deep sorrow that I inform you that Rev Wilkerson was killed in a car crash today. Please pray for his loved ones and his Church. No matter if you believe that his visions about America came from God or not, Rev. Wilkerson certainly was a godly man who lived a godly life trying to win souls for Christ. He certainly is with Christ now.
Rev Wilkerson did a lot to effectively reach out to gangs and drug addicts and bringing them to Jesus Christ…as well as have the Love Of The Lord in his heart.
This man had a deep conviction and was an effective communicator of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
His warnings of God’s judgements upon America are being manifested this very day.
Thank you Lord for using Reverend Wilkerson to turn the lost to Christ and we pray that you call one of your members to continue and to boldly preach the truth without fear of man can do in the stead of David Wilkerson.
My prayers are with the Wilkerson family for consolation but also I join in celebrating the fact that this man’s life is a testament of the power and love of God.
First, the idea of any of our fellow Americans dying due to God’s wrath should horrify each and every Christian. Personally, I think the chickens that have come home to roost are all of our own making-when it’s GOD’s earthquakes and plagues(Revelations), the whole world seems to know it is divine judgement.And then reject God.
i think a different way-that each and every professing believer is indeed the salt of the earth and holding this country in far better shape than it would be otherwise. there are blessings for those who believe in Jesus just as there are for the Jewish people.
this is a time to share with those who are not Christians. oh, not by yelling and carrying signs-unless there really is a need, a moment for that-but with each person who comes your way.I personally find the “who”in who asks to be amazing. Never what you expect.And never expect a particular reaction to the message, either-or you just might be upset! ( It aint about you…)
Global warming or not, the Earth has had worse storms,world wide, floods and fires, the last decade or so… and been knocked off it’s axis slightly by the 2 biggest earthquakes-Chile and Japan.( no idea what that means for the long term)So take the hint…learn to grow your own food if you can, get out of the banking system as much as possible, and teach the truth to those who cross your path.Don;t be afraid-live well! Christ is risen. and every word , every biblical prophecy will be fulfilled.
Faith
Ps I was sad to learn that David passed. He was part of my coming to terms with my beliefs, as a teenager….I am grateful.Hope he;s having a GREAT time waiting for the rest of us!
Hi Faith,
Thanks for your input.
I agree that the outpouring of the wrath of God in Revelation is not taking place and it will not take place until the world accepts the Antichrist and rejects the return of God’s Son. Nevertheless, God allows the storms and earthquakes and the rise and fall of nations. I agree that Christians have been holding this country together but there is also ongoing apostasy like never before in this nation.
Thank you Faith for writing what you wrote. Unless we reflect of power of the Creator of the Universe in us when we live our lives out in front of others we are not doing the Lord Jesus Christ any justice whatsoever.
When the unbeliever looks at us square in the eyes- do they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we believe the Gospel? Do they know that we are completely, unashamedly, and unabashedly sold out for the Christ?
The United States is now a melting pot of false religion and corrupted gospels and we as a body of believers in Christ MUST reveal the Word of God and endure the persecution. We must submit to wearing the yoke of bondage for Christ.
I am horrified to see how close America is looking to that of Divinely judged Israel in the Old Testament. The sentiments that come to mind are eerily echoed by George Washington in 1873, which read:
“I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation.”
GEORGE WASHINGTON, circular to the states, Jun. 8, 1783
I read several of the comments from various authors stating that “I know God’s judgement is coming upon America” as though it isn’t already? If you don’t think the rampant sin & ‘being given over to a depraved mind’ is God’s judgement, then I don’t know what is. God uses people to judge, and already is passively judging America. yeah, maybe a huge disaster will come one day, but until then, the judgement can be seen in the form of humans behaving the way they do, with little to no intervention. Anyway, interesting article and good comments (besides a few straight up WACKY ones).
2009 was just after 2008, Katrina & ‘The Crash’ in that order, it’s 2011 nearly the dreaded ‘2012’, and history already speaks for itself. Weather (small and large-scale and global-scale), earth(quakes), pestilence & famine (increasing), human deception and evil (human to human, human to Nature, God’s Creation), all speaking for God’s Time and Seasons in our story on earth. He IS, after all, IN CHARGE. We judge ourselves by our choices and behaviors individually and corporately. The Laws of Sowing and Reaping.
Just recently discovered this site so I must apologise for my slowness in replying to Guy Passing Through. I’m not so sure that the rampant sin in itself is actually God’s judgement per se. Could it be part of the judgement? I’m not sure of that either. I think that falling into sin of almost any kind can happen unwittingly. But as soon as it becomes deliberate, through conscience or knowledge, then I suppose by not turning from it is a type of judgement. I would have thought that judgement is the punishment for unrepented sin, which would clearly be a case of reaping what we’ve sown. We know, even from Scripture, that sin begins in the mind. It becomes sin when we dwell on it because that leads us to actually sin in deed. Once we have sinned in deed, though, doesn’t necessarily bring judgement–certainly not immediately. God often postpones judgement so that people will repent. He didn’t destroy Sodom and Gommorah immediately. God was so merciful that He allowed Abraham to plead with Him regarding Sodom’s destruction. That’s why I don’t think the depravity here in Britain as well as in the US is essentialy judgement. I’d appreciate any views that could convince me either way.
Martin ,
It is my belief that God’s mercy is always present even amongst evil. 2nd Peter 3:9 says God is not slack regarding his promises , but is longsuffering, not willing that any should perish ,but desires all to come to repentance. Sometimes I believe God allows us to go the wrong way to teach us to return to Him. There are always consequences when we elect our own way instead od God’s way. Those consequences may sometimes be judgment to turn us around. I believe He deals with each of us on an individual basis and His desire is to redeem us , not to destroy us . God got very upset when Jonah refused to go to Nineveh the first time. He went to extradionary lenghts to make sure Jonah delivered His message. The depravity you speak of in Britian and the US should be teaching us that only God’s way is the best way for us. Don’t know if anything I said helps or adds to the confusion. BLESSINGS!!!!!!!!
Don Fritts,
I think you summarized it as well as us humans can conceive of it at this time : )
With all due respect, just because “none” of the God given prophecies that were given to David Wilkerson may not yet have come to pass, should we also not put much “stock” in the prophecies of say Daniel or Jesus Himself which have not yet come to pass?
Dom,
Many of the prophecies of the prophets have come to pass as written or they would not be in the Bible. Nothing David Wilkerson has written has come to pass as written. Check out what he actually said in his books. I also say riots and looting will come worldwide but that does not make me a prophet. That just means that I am aware of where sin will bring the world. There have always been upheavals in the world in the past and we are not exempt because we are in the 21st century, especially as we see evil on the rise.
Good points from Don Fritts and David. I would also have to agee with Don’s reply to Dom.
I found David Wilkerson to be a sincere man, dedicated to God’s work. He certainly wanted to act his part in it as best as he could.
He thought he was interpreting Scripture correctly. I’m sure that he did it to the best of his abilty and I know his Christian witness was very powerful. However, I didn’t see anything come to pass which he claimed would. But I don’t think that’s the same thing as not putting much stock in the prophecies of Daniel or Jesus.
As Don points out, those prophecies are Scripture so we can rely on them. Besides, look at all the world powers that have come and gone already of which Daniel prophesied. He has an astounding track record so far. And the Lord’s track record can only ever be perfection.
Some comments on DW’s prophecies yet to come to America. Consider Nahum and what he prophesied about Nineveh because of their rejection and sin against God. It took another 50 years before Assyria and Nineveh was destroyed. America is declining now like never before – open you eyes and ears. Corruption, evil and wickedness are everywhere and increasing exponentially. We have aborted – murdered – over 50 million unborn. DW was right on in what is coming to America. Not all has come yet. Just this past election Marijuana was legalized in 3 states. Maybe not nationally yet but time will tell.
Others:
*** Storms with huge hailstones will kill thousands of people and cause massive damage. – look at Sandy, Isaac, Katrina – just 3 have killed many and caused billions in damage
*** The U.S. dollar will collapse. – Its right on the verge of collapse – consider nations today dumping the American dollar as the world’s reserve currency. This will cause major trouble for the dollar … soon. Or the $16 trillion we are in debt and adding $4 billion a day to the deficit.
***There will be a major famine in America. – Look all around you – our own people are starving yet we spend billions on election campaigns. No rain, drought in 2011/12 = food scarcity.
*** Nude dancing in churches – [Nude Church! Pastor Bares Soul] and [More and Church Gone Wild: Fitness Routine Combines Pole Dancing, Jesus] (Google these things)
These are not normal or routine events that are just happening due to America’s growth in tech, population or anything else. This are the stinging results of sin and its consequences. The last days are here and it’s time the pleasing, happy, calming rhetoric stops and the facts shine forth. We have kicked God out of just about all of our affairs- government, lives, public, and yes even some of our churches! There is no talk about sin, little on confession, none on Godly sorrow and rarely will you hear repentance preached … anywhere!
Sin has and is infecting this nation and we are seeing now some of the remedial judgments of God. He is full of mercy and grace but He will not strive with us forever; His patience is running out. Wake up folks, Bible prophecies and warnings tell us that perilous times are here and coming in mass!
*** And yes Todd S. his visions are needed for America! And we need more men of God to hear God’s Word and speak out from prophecies, visions or dreams given by our God! ***
Phil,
Nations will continue to rise and fall and I am sure all those things you mentioned will happen if we continue down the path the people in this nation are choosing. Even so, being aware of where sin will lead is not the same as claiming that you got a direct message from God about specific judgments on America.
By the way, people in this nation are not starving, we are the fattest nation on earth. We had a much worse drought in the 1930’s. Storms and wars are common in American history. There is enough to be concerned about in America without exaggerating the facts and thinking that everyone that can predict that evil leads to the inevitable is a prophet of God.
We do not need people speaking prophecies, visions and dreams our of their own presumptions and that seems to be the reality of the prophetic movement. Everything God needs to say to America and people in America has already been said in the Bible and we can be sure that His message is totally reliable. The prophetic message that America really needs to hear is God’s written revelation without compromise. Only salvation can save the people of America. In any case, God will do with this nation what He wills.
All nations will fall in the end times, the real question is why no great nation like America is even mentioned? All astute Christians should see that handwriting on the wall if we have the spirit that was in Daniel. Even so, the details of the fall are not given in the Bible and there is no reason for them to be given through modern prophets. For if America had repented, she would remain a world power and be specifically mentioned in end time Bible prophecy, but she is not.
Hello Don-
I think we need to keep scripture, God’s attributes and how He has interacted w/man handed down to us through His Word. According to Heb 13:8, God is the same yesterday, today and forever. So that means that if He used prophets in the OT and apostles in the NT, He could certainly use men that were/are close to Him today. The litmus test for us to recognize them and validate their message is who and what they believe in as well as how they live their lives.
Moreover, if the people of the OT had, at least, the scrolls of the Torah then using your wisdom, prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, to just name a few would not be needed to help steer Israel and Judah away from sin, idolatry, etc.
We dare not say what God can do today or at anytime as His ways are higher than our ways… Also we should use caution in saying what God can and can’t do with people that He has chosen. The reality of a person’s message will dictate their credibility.
America is declining rapidly and without a clarion call from Godly men, especially from the pulpit, coupled with national repentance America could certainly fall away from world super-nation, super-power status. To whom much is given, much is required. We are reminded of Jonah and his mission to Nineveh; they repented and God relented from their planned destruction – Jonah 3:9.
Good discussion but I guess at this point we can agree to disagree on the subject of if/when Godly prophets can arise and be used today.
Phil,
The Law was not the end of God’s word. There was the Law and the prophets. The law and the prophets all came from God through God’s chosen people who were among the nation that God chose for that purpose.
God is the same today as He was Yesterday, but to say He always does things the same way is to deny the biblical facts. Did Jesus even heal the same way each time? God works differently with people in different dispensations of time according to His own purposes. The Church is not Israel. The Law and the prophets came from Jews.
The word of God is complete, the Canon has been accepted. According to Jesus Himself, the Law and the Prophets were until John. All prophets of God were Jewish, the Church is not Jewish and there are no more foundations to lay after the Jewish eyewitnesses gave their inspired accounts and instructions for Christian living. Therefore, there is no more direct Revelation from God after Revelation was written.
Some in the early church claimed that they had new knowledge (Gnostics) but the early church rejected them as heretics because they conflicted with the revealed truth written. Therefore, because of the Gnostics they put together a Canon of inspired scripture to refute any future Gnosticism. Even so, nothing has changed. Today we have neo-Gnostics claiming special revelation.
Christians can get direction from the Holy Spirit but it is not God breathed scripture and what they think that God is telling them will never stand the test of scripture. When Wilkerson claimed divine revelation he crossed the line. For one to be in the office of a prophet of what God is revealing about the future one has to be called and has to be 100 percent correct. No so called modern prophet that tell the future are anywhere near that infallible mark, In fact, I have got more things right about the near future than David Wilkerson ever did and I certainly am not a prophet.
Anyone that observes the moral decay in America can predict that the hedge around America is being taken away and all that this entails for this country. That does not make one a prophet. I can do that, you can do that. and so could many other watchmen including David Wilkerson. Even so, we should not make his every word something that it is not. It is not the word of God and it does not have to come true. David was an astute Watchman, and people should heed his warnings but he was not a prophet in the sense that what he said has to come to pass.
The big danger in accepting anyone as getting divine revelation about the future from God today is that if you do it for one that claims to get divine revelation about the future you have to consider all that make such claims. That makes fallible Christians the judge of what came from God and what did not. That often leads to false teaching, cults, putting fallible people on pedestals, and heresy. The Bible is the only Revelation from God that is infallible.
Don –
I didn’t say He did things always the same! Read Heb 13:8. Whether He chooses to use people the same or differently is His choice. Isa 46:10
Israel and the Church are separate today – definitely. That was not in question.
My point wasn’t to validate David Wilkerson as a prophet, just that we should be aware that God, who is far, far greater than any flesh, can do anything He wants and at any time He wants. He won’t, however, violate His own laws and Word.
If anyone claims to be a Godly prophet and his prophesies fail, then he is not a prophet. Simple deduction.
However, there are many watchmen that are led by God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to alert the people who are not watching. They can be led by prophesy, dreams and visions – Acts 2:17. But … their warnings will always line up with scripture reasoning whether OT or NT – 2 Pet 1:20-21.
One has to be careful about putting God in a box. His Word is sure and His revelations will come to pass but He can still do anything He wants, anytime He wants. He is God. We are but flesh. He has the plan. We can only attempt to study and interpret scripture through proper hermeneutics especially when it comes to eschatology. God’s Word is the final word.
To believe in modern day prophets is to deny God’s ability to control history.
Within the first three hundred years or so of the Church age God did just that and the canon of scripture was formed. If the modern claims are true then God failed believers between then and now.
If such a phenomena was true the appropriate time for any further revelation would have been the Reformation period – the “great awakening”; it did not happen but all of a sudden, at what can only be described as the beginning of the Laodicean age, we have these claims to further divine revelation.
This age in which we live puts the lie to these claims.
Don is correct; any man versed in scripture can determine cause and effect. Please don’t make false claims to Divine Revelation.
I should have used words in the past tense regards the Laodicean age as that started in the late 1800s.
Folks,
Brian, to believe that God cannot or will not move in the hearts of men and raise up who He wants to raise up today is false teaching and has absolutely no scriptural foundation. Guys please support your positions w/scripture. Anybody can say anything.
Setting modern dates to modern ages of the seven churches written about in Rev 2, 3 is prophetic. Are you a prophet?
Please remember that God is alive and well today. He has not stopped talking to His church, He is not silent and He has not stopped talking to Godly men who seek Him with all their heart. If you believe He has stopped talking and moving, then I will pray for you. Remember, God is God and can do anything He wants – Isa 46:10
Let’s again turn to scripture for only His Word is solely authoritative. Man’s word w/o scripture as the basis for discussion about Godly matters is empty, void and w/o substance. There have been and will be false prophets and false Christ’s as we have seen over the years and their ‘revelations’ will reveal their true identity. More are coming, I am sure.
Let’s consider the apostle Paul writing to the Galatians. In Galatia, there were people who stood against the message of the Apostle Paul. The Lord moved Paul to write that it was the Lord who was the author of Paul’s writings. Paul did not get his message from man; he got it by revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Galatians 1:11-12 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
Is Paul’s position at the beginning of the church age any different than today if God chooses to raise up someone and use them prophetically? Divine Revelation can come to anyone God chooses to use. Who are we to say otherwise?
Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go near and overtake this chariot” – Acts 8:29
“But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men” – 1Cor 14:3
Please don’t discount what God can do today. The words – ‘dispensation’ and ‘reformation’ are man’s words and only label things. Stick to God’s Word.
I almost fully replied to everything Phil said but I hit the wrong key and it just went to bit heaven and I can’t waste anymore time on Phil.
So Brian it is up to you to make Phil see the errors of his ways. I will just say that it seems to me that if you have been following this conversation that Phil is talking out of both sides of his mouth in regards to new prophetic Revelation and the absolute authority of God’s word. Either we already have God’s word to man through the prophets and the apostles or it is still being given through new apostles and prophets. Both cannot be true. If you think new divine revelation it is still being revealed you have much in common with the Vatican and the Cults.
By the way, understanding what was already written by observing history and seeing seven church eras in the seven letters in Revelation are seeing applications that were already in the Word but usually missed. It it not new revelation from God about future events. People claiming divine revelation about the future are not building on the foundation lain, they are laying their own foundation of error.
Phil
If David Wilkerson (we will use him as an example) was a true prophet of God then his writings could legitimately be included in the Bible. Would he have dared …would you dare?
I will just repeat what Don has said several times; Any man/woman knowledgeable of Biblical truth can make accurate assessments of the signs of the times: This is not the gift of a prophet as in new revelation from God, but the gift of discernment. The gift of discernment may very well contain personal (and therefore exciting) awakening to the outworking of Biblical prophecy, but this cannot be equated to Divine Revelation.
Neither Don nor I deny the existence of such gifts as wisdom and discernment gained from a good understanding of what God has already had written, but to claim the office of a prophet from the exercise of wisdom or discernment is wrong; to claim this knowledge came from dreams and visions is palpably false and a denial of the sufficiency of Scripture.
I am convinced world monetary collapse is in our future especially the USA..so what’s a person to do to protect his assets..typically savings, ira’s and the like…Most of my $ is from the govt..va & ss..I would expect them to be cut..so what happens to cash savings..how do we protect that?
Dale,
I think owning the house where you dwell is now smart. And cash investments in arable land and timberland probably top the list of wise investments as long as the population of the earth continues to increase. Of course, I am not an investment counselor and this post is not about where to put your cash. So that is the end here on that topic.
People scoffed at Noah for over one hundred years. They laughed at the ALL the Prophets. They hated Jesus Christ to the extent that he was murdered. They hounded and persecuted the early Church and tortured and killed hundreds of thousands doing the Reformation and yet man continues to mock and belittle Gods Prophets. Sadly, much of this persecution and torment originates with those WITHIN the Church! Its rather pathetic but unfortunately, most will continue to ignore Gods pleadings and warnings until its too late.
Jasper,
It also is true that Wilkerson claimed visions from God that did not come true in the general time frame that he set in his own books.
I can say there will be riots and looting worldwide and someday I will be totally correct but that does not make me a prophet. Many can discern that bad times are coming on this nation and the world but when a person gets into specifics and claims they came from a vision from the Lord (like Wilkerson did). Those “visions” “from the Lord” had better come true as stated or that person is speaking presumptuously in the Lord’s name. We are told to test all things.
I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head Don, when you speak of “speaking presumptuously” in the Lord’s name.
Where was the fear of God in those who falsely claimed the office. None of the true prophets of old wanted the job for they knew the Lord demanded 100% accuracy or face his displeasure, and because of this, when they eventually spoke up they were in effect placing their very lives in the Lord’s hands. On the other hand the false prophets were ungodly men and had no such fear of accountability.
Modern day “self professed prophets” also have no fear, for the Spirit’s conviction is nullified by ignorance or emotional arrogance, and who is there to ‘stone’ them for their presumption (or more in keeping with this age, to condemn them for their presumption).
The average church goer doesn’t know enough to ‘see’ presumption let alone condemn it, yet those who can see and do condemn are condemned in turn for their ‘critical spirit’.
Ignorance of Scripture and a general apathy has led the church into the Laodicean age.
Don,
Although I do not see any current comments on the subject of whether or not some human being has been selected by God to give the rest of humanity a message, but it kind of made me wonder if Revelation, argued by many to have been written by John the Apostle, and which came after John the Baptist, is really a message from God. I say this, based on what you commented: (“Jesus Himself suggested that the prophetic office ended with John (Mt 11:13). John testified of Jesus, not the fall of any Gentile nation.”)
It seems to me that what you have pointed out in Mt 11:13 is relevant to the issue at hand, whether it concerns David Wilkerson, or any other coming after John the Baptist, claiming to have received prophecies from God. If we are to take Jesus’ word that the prophetic office ended with John the Baptist, meaning that there would not be any other further prophecies coming from God, other than what had already been prophesied up to John the Baptist, and what Jesus gave us during his lifetime on earth, then it must be accepted that anyone claiming to be giving prophecy from God cannot be taken seriously. Does this make sense? It does to me. Therefore, what validity can we give to Revelation? Consider also that in early Christianity, Revelation was considered as being “heretical,” and therefore not inspired by God. Consider also that Revelation was always under historical arguments by the Church leaders, because of the opposite contrast it had with not being in-line with Jesus’ message of salvation, love, forgiveness, turn-the-other-cheek, redemption, and the “leaving behind of the 99 sheep to search out the one lost sheep.” And that was the main reason why it was considered a “heretical” document, and only barely made the canonization list. Also the real authorship of Revelation was always suspected, even in our modern times. Additionally, many modern scholars have made a strong point that Revelation was addressing events and times of the then Roman Empire (100 AD), and not a prophecy of our times. One author I can name off the top-of-my-head is Elaine Pagels. Her book, Revelations: Visions, Prophecy, and Politics in the Book of Revelation, gives some very interesting and provocative views, which have to receive very serious considerations that she may be right. But of course, any discussions on facts and fiction about religious matters have always been very difficult, if not impossible, to determine facts and truth about them. All the blogs on your web site go a long way to prove the difficulty at arriving at the truth of anything religious, as some will stone you, and other will praise you on what you put on your web site, Don.
I find myself always in the middle on this type of situations, and at times I believe revelation to be authentic and coming from God, and at other times, strong doubts arise within me. I would also like to comment, and also get your opinion on this, Don, because you have expended a great deal of your time and deep thoughts on stating your opinion on Revelation and its interpretation. My comment is that I have always wondered why Jesus Himself did not provide us all those specifics on the end times. I mean, he briefly covered it in a very general way. Would it not have been more in-line, and more easily accepted by us and his followers if we could have heard it directly from the Lord’s mouth, especially since He, as you stated above, practically told us that we will not have any other “authentic” prophets from God after John the Baptist?
How is your shoulder coming along?
Best regards,
Frank
Frank,
Jesus never said that prophets ended with John the Baptist. Do you really think that He excluded Himself and His apostles when the New Testament makes it clear that it is otherwise? Jesus said the Law and the Prophets were until John because John spoke of Jesus and Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets that pointed to Jesus. He was not saying there would be no future prophets. If you think so, then why did Jesus later tell us how to identify false prophets among us? By their fruits you will know them!
There are no Christians that believe that there were not sign gifts and gifts of prophecy in the early Church. All agree that there were. The book of Acts and other writings makes that clear. You really have to deny the scriptures to say otherwise. For example, the Book of Acts says that Agabus was a prophet. What do you think people were prophesying about in the early Church that Paul spoke of if there were no prophets? Ever hear of the five fold ministry? He gave Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers for the perfecting of the saints (eph 4 11).
The main point of cessationists is that the early Church did not have all the scriptures so truth was revealed to prophets to keep the Church on track. There was a lot of false teachers claiming to have received new knowledge so it was getting increasingly harder to determine the truth. The Church had to agree on infallible doctrine once and for all rather than just believing anyone claiming they had a word or letter from the Lord”. The Canon was put together to stop heresy. The Book of Revelation that you doubt, said this would happen in the letter to the church of Ephesus. After the Canon was approved and agreed on by the Church there was no more need for new revelation.
Apostle John wrote the book of Revelation. People that say it was someone else do not know their a– from a hole in the ground. The book of Revelation is a prophetic book that reveals the Lord Jesus through time. If you do not understand that, I wonder what you do understand, and why you even think you,re a Christian. Or do you even make that claim? If you claim to be a Christian, why are you quoting a woman’s book as if biblical doctrine is defined and taught by women. Do women teach you doctrine? Was that Paul’s instruction to the Church?
The truth is in those 66 books that we call the Canon. Revelation is not the only book in the New Testament that contains prophecy, it is up to you to study to show yourself approved. Obviously you are not doing that, you are reading and believing heretics to define what God said.
Jesus did provide the specifics about the end times that we need to know. The Church is not to know the timing of the Lord’s coming for His Church. Can you imagine what would happen if we all did?
The shoulder is never going to be right unless I get a shoulder replacement. The issue now is how much pain will I have to live with until I decided it is that time. I won’t know that for months.
Don
Excellent answer to Frank’s comments.
Are you guys watching “American Blackout” on National Geographic? Interesting that they are showing this now with the upcoming planned FEMA test of the grid with a possible blackout on November 13th – http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2013/09/07/when-the-lights-go-out-on-november-13-2013/ Preparing us for the inevitable? Another false flag event to user in martial law?
Tim,
The threat of an extended grid blackout is very real. There is nothing false about the threat. People ought to take heed because it could come from a cyber attack, a terrorist attack, or a nuclear or solar EMP. Believe me, if most of America loses the grid for more than two days people here ought to hope that our government has some way to enforce martial law because the alternative will get most of us killed. But the reality of it is that in a serious grid down situation I doubt if they could get forces in place in time to save the cities.
Now, I don’t want people to start commenting on EMP’s and false flags on this post. There are more appropriate posts on this blog that talk specifically about that very real threat.