The whole idea that there will be a coming Christian wealth transfer from the world to the Church is preposterous. What do they think the world will be doing while we take away their wealth and what in the world would we do with the wealth of the world anyway? Get rid of poverty? Where does it say the Church will do that in scripture? Actually these people will take new found wealth to build more and larger circus tents for their “third wave” freak shows?
There is no such concept of a wealth transfer to the Church in scripture it is totally contrary to what the scripture teaches.
These “third wave” self appointed, apostles, prophets and healers are proud presumptuous deranged people or they are greedy con artists and liars.
The “third wave” apostles, false prophets and healers appeal to people’s flesh and that is the only reason they have a following. They certainly do not hear the true gospel from these people and they do receive any sound Christian teaching.
These are the people Jesus was talking about in Matthew chapter 7: 21-22. They tell Jesus did we not prophecy in your name and cast out Devils in your name and do great works? But, Jesus will say to them depart from me you workers of inequity I never knew you.
Most of these people are con men deceivers. I am not so gullible as to believe that they actually believe the stuff they peddle. I guess there could be a few simple minded exceptions in the group but the rest are simply religious acting con artists.
They use scriptures without understanding because they have none. They have no Holy Spirit to give it to them. They are followed by those who do not read God’s word. They would rather listen to people who tickle their itching ears. They could all be board members of the First Church of the Flesh.
These leaders claim to be apostles, prophets and healers and they claim to be great anointed people of God but they really are the wolves in sheep’s clothing that the Bible warns us against.
People wonder why I say the “Word of Faith” movement is a false gospel cult. Well, what movement produced the prideful presumptive demonic “third wave” movement and the prosperity gospel? They distort everything in the Bible. So much so, that their Jesus cannot even be found in any honest study of the Bible.
I think many of the “third wave” leaders are demon possessed and many of those who go to their gatherings are in danger of becoming demon possessed. Many of the regulars who go to their meetings display manifestations of occult demon possession. They are not of sound mind. Neither Jesus Christ, nor the Holy Spirit is in the tabernacle.
If you are following these people run! You are playing with fire.
Will the Church soon be showered with the wealth of the unrighteous, thus being able to fund the last, great global harvest of souls? Again quoting C. Peter Wagner, “I think the time is ripe for those of us who are apostles to begin to understand the crucial role we have in God’s plan to release the wealth of the wicked for the advance of the kingdom of God.”[2]
But what does the Bible say? Pursuing a historical-grammatical interpretation—in other words, interpreting the Bible as it reads—try as one might, one cannot find this view supported in the Bible.
Dealing first with the “wealth transfer” notion, indeed, we do find that there is a great wealth transfer prophesied in Scripture. However, it has nothing to do with the Church, but rather applies to Israel and the Millennial period.
There are many other problems with the last-day wealth transfer notion applying to the Church. For example, it is claimed that there will yet be a last-day global harvest before the Lord returns, and that the Church will need great wealth to fund this objective as well as eradicating poverty in the world. Says Wagner, “In order to possess the gate of wealth to, among other things, develop plans to eradicate systemic poverty, we need to develop new structures of intercession to do the spiritual warfare necessary to transfer wealth.[3]”
However, the Bible says directly otherwise. Clearly implying that there would be little faith upon earth when He returns,
So is there a great, last-day wealth transfer to the Church? Scripture easily and clearly settles this question. Yet, theologians who should have sufficient knowledge of what the Bible says[4] instead prefer to trust their own intuitions and prophecies. This recent statement from Apostle Peter (also known as C. Peter Wagner) provides an example of such vanity, in which he appears to make his own decrees supersede Scripture. Spoken on the great reverential authority of the claimed office of an early New Testament apostle, he literally commands the earth’s obedience. Not even the first Apostle Peter spoke with such licence. (One also wonders why the foundations of the New Jerusalem will be named after the original 12 apostles and not more? —See Revelation 21:14.)
“I hereby take the apostolic authority that I have been given by God. I decree that vast amounts of wealth will be released supernaturally, even from godless and pagan sources. I decree that large numbers of God’s chosen people will be empowered in fresh and creative ways to gain wealth according to Deuteronomy 8:18. New inventions will multiply. Disruptive technologies will change the life patterns of the whole human race. The earth will disgorge vast riches of hidden resources. These will be entrusted to God’s agents. Profits will increase exponentially. It is spoken. So may it come to pass! Amen and amen!”[5]
Today, as all too frequently with other Third Wave Christian movements supposedly marked by “fresh moves of the Spirit,” new or revised theologies have been revealed on the strength of new prophecies uttered by their own prophets. The serious issue here is that these prophecies serve to revise what God originally said through his prophets and Scripture. Indeed, such revisions are not a new phenomenon, having been the mark of many if not all apostate movements or beliefs.
The true Church of the last days, if anything, is more of a remnant than it is resplendent with wealth. Revelation 3:8 says that the church of the “open door” is weak and feeble; far from being imbued with worldly power and wealth. It is this little Philadelphian band of believers, to which is promised, “Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth” (Revelation 3:10). If the Third Wave movements are correct, one wonders why it is the rich Laodicean church that is being reprimanded by Christ.
My “spiritual-klaxons” go-off when I consider theses groups and the demonic distortions they represent.
It’s nice to see that side of myself validated by others as well as by scripture.
Nevertheless, I think these people will be successful in redefining Christianity to the rest of the world, as they drive the true Christians underground before the rapture.
Proverbs 13:22
I wonder if we as the body of Christ termed word of faith movement, you have ever study the bible about wealth transfer or you study what you only interest, anway when you say its unscriptural for wealth transfer is not in the bible, can i ask you something. since we believe that there is a bible, is the word in the bible which says bible? could you please explain to me what the holy Spirit is saying to you (not reasoning or intellectual) about the following scripture maybe i will be convinced about your perception regarding wealth transfer. is it unscriptural really?
Pro 28:8
If you get rich by charging interest and taking advantage of people, your wealth will go to someone who is kind to the poor.
Ecc 2:26
God gives wisdom, knowledge, and joy to anyone who pleases him. But to the person who continues to sin, he gives the job of gathering and collecting wealth. The sinner must turn his wealth over to the person who pleases God
Isa 45:2
I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
Isa 45:3
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel
Hi Jeff,
Could you please clarify what you said (not the scriptures). Maybe I am just dense but I cannot follow you.
Jeff I deleted your last comment because it was exactly the same as the one you posted above. I do not need you to re-post it I need you to rephrase what you said. I can not follow what your saying and I doubt if anyone else can either.
Scripture teaches general principals about handling money, and the general directions it flows relative to our behavior.
I compare these general principals with what the book of Proverbs teaches about the things that tend to happen to the godly and ungodly.
For example, generally the honest and upright will prosper in their business affairs, but that does not guarantee that a particular person (even particularly virtuous one) will not suffer loss. Likewise, violent men tend to die violently, but not all do.
So I do not see scripture teaching a “formula” that godly people can or should use in order to prosper materially.
In fact, such a rigid set of principals with specific conditions and guaranteed outcomes, would work to support our materialistic tendencies, generally at the expense of relationship with God.
Scripture teaches that God does not have a problem with personal wealth in itself. He blessed many people both conditionally and unconditionally. But these material things, good as they may be, should not relegate God to second place in our lives.
Unfortunately, it is all too easy for our sinful natures to grasp-at and idolize our God-given blessings. As it is written “the love of money is the root of much evil.”
Jesus often warned people of the pitfalls of putting their faith in material blessings. At the same time, He encouraged people to store their treasure in Heaven where it cannot be lost or stolen, because our hearts would be wherever our treasure lay.
Knowing what I know of scripture and having His Spirit in me, I am convinced that the Word of Faith movement attempts to use God in an effort to achieve material prosperity here and now. It seems to me that prosperity is placed very high in their list of priorities, and that certain scriptures are used to support this emphasis.
Jesus pointed-out that God knows that we have needs, but that we should not “chase” them like the rest of the ungodly people do. Rather we should focus on God, His Kingdom, His righteousness, and when we do that, He will meet whatever needs we have.
In my case, circumstances are such that the lion’s share of “my” substantial income goes to taxes and the medical industry. I’ve asked God why, after all, I feel like a deadbeat because I’m always paying doctors and hospitals with Heaven being the light at the end of the tunnel. “Why God? I hate owing people money and you know that I want to be able to give more — it’s one of the ways You gifted me.” I’m coming to understand a few things: First, (and this just occurred to me) there is greater opportunity for Him to develop faith in me (and my family) through this grinding need to depend on Him, than if He simply healed my wife and son supernaturally. Second, my desire for the things of this world continues to diminish as I recognize that the only “things” that I might want lie on the other side of this life — all other things will eventually burn. Third, it is His income, not really mine, and knowing this helps me shift my priorities (if I had lots of disposable income, what would I do), and realize that my debt responsibilities are really in His hands too.
I hope this is helpful to someone.
hi Don,
The LOVE of money is the root of much evil not the need of money. you need money my brother in the Lord, isn’t? Paul or rather God rebukes us from the love of money not the need of money. it takes money for us to communicate, isn’t? there are some loopheloes in the teaching of prosperity in our word of faith movement but that does not give people ground to go extremly and labelled us third wave demons. anway Matthew 12:36, man will accout his reckless words. Jessu rebuked the young man about idolising his wealth. what the young man fails to understand is that God is the owner of the wealth and entrusted him
to be a steward of taking care of poor people, the call he made throughout the bible even in Leviticus and Isaiah 1 to take care of the poor. Jesus said we must seek the Kingdom of God first. since we have sought or we are seeking his kingdom, shoul we abadon his wealth? God forbids, Jesus was not against the wealth or rather money but he was against priority and so he didn’t rebuke/forbids us to prosper materially provided God is the priority and his Kingdom. the fact that a Christian brother went to sister domitory and backslide does mean we must forbid all brothers not to visit sisters. it starts in the heart. So as far as welath is concern, God used many scriptures about wealth transfer but people plead ignorance not prusue their agenda. why can’t we reconcile all scriptures and stop using searching scripture to fit our limited minds? we gonna need money/wealth not love them and love God will all our heart. see the difference need/love. and the wealth is to advance the Kingdom of God by preaching and helping the poor. what does jesus mean when he said the Children of darkness are more wise that the children of light?
Jeff,
Actually the correct translation of the passage is “The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil” This is the way it is said in the ASV and I never said anything differently. Money is not the problem it is the lust after money that is the problem.
I did not say that all in Word of Faith believe in the Latter Rain teaching and the new waves. Also understand that I am talking about much of your leadership not the victims of the leaders. The problem is that the leadership all come out of Word of Faith Bible schools so they all sound like clones and most teach the same errors.
I have nothing against Christians having wealth and using it for the advancement of God’s Kingdom. I have a problem with those who preach that if you give to their demonic or misguided organization that God has to give you a financial blessing.
The real error with Word-Faith is in their false presumptions. They pick and choose scriptures to fit their presumptions but their presumptions cannot be substantiated in the full light of all scripture. You find that in their worldview, their kingdom view, their prophetic view and in their health and prosperity view.
“what does jesus mean when he said the Children of darkness are more wise that the children of light?” you ask.
In context of the parable it means, you need to be a good steward and serve well on the earth for if you cannot be trusted to be a good steward of the earthly riches entrusted to you why would the Lord trust you with true spiritual riches? Some children of darkness are better stewards of earthly riches then are the Children of light. For example, a unbelieving billionaire like Warren Buffet giving away most of his money to help people while a believer does nothing to help anyone with their riches.
Jesus basically answered what all that was about near the end of His statement on that parable.
“No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.”
I’ve Got No More Reason to Lie
By Robert Winkler Burke
Of inthatdayteachings.com
Copyright 1/1/09
I’ve got no more reason to lie,
I’m going tomorrow,
To where I was before this life,
Parlayed such sorrow.
I bought and made lies,
Most of my life,
Accusing mostly others,
For causing strife.
I stuck to my proud guns,
So did my gunfight brothers,
That our bullets were lies,
Gave us virtually no bother.
Worst of all I was a preacher,
Broadcasting popular truths,
That were lead-bullet lies spinning,
Some downrange ruse.
That give-to-get giving,
Isn’t self-service greedy,
That rapture fear-mongering,
Isn’t self-service seedy.
That faith without works,
Isn’t dead,
That hypocrite preachers aren’t,
Full of dread.
That all the hurting world needs,
Hard, blunt truth,
Except broadcast ministry where,
Truth we forsooth.
We forsooth telling the bitchy wife,
Lay off your man,
We forsooth laymen correcting pastors,
Whenever we can.
We forsooth telling the rich donor,
To keep his filthy lucre,
We take all quid pro quo monies,
Like a cheap, ugly hooker.
We forsooth saying: There are no rules,
Only guidelines,
We’d rather rule-trap our sheepfolds,
At tithe times.
You want tough talking truth?
Look elsewhere,
Than we broadcasting preachers,
Serving cheap fare.
For truth listen to talk radio,
Or read an internet blog,
But we religiously correct demigods,
Make dense, self-service fog.
But since soon to my Maker I go,
I repent of fog making,
And swapping hell’s for heaven’s doxies,
And gang mind-raping.
Now that I’m a goner of this world,
I will talk tough,
Can the world ever forgive me for,
Avoiding truths rough?
Only little sweet truths,
I ever ingested,
Now my immortal soul,
Is ever conflicted.
And my sheep! My sheep! Oh God!
My poor sheep!
They hate and avoid all hard truths,
And I weep!
Oh God, I preached hundreds, no,
Thousands of hours,
Sweet sermons self-serving, so,
Lacking God’s powers.
God’s powers of great truth,
Ameliorate all things bad,
On earth I slayed truth and,
All truth-sayers God had.
And even worse yet still,
I ignored God’s precious indwelling,
Those Jesus happily in-filled,
I gave my back while busy book selling.
I had a chance to explain,
God’s true indwelt future,
Honoring God bearers,
Of Christ-minded nature,
But I couldn’t honor God,
Come quickly in others,
My pride made me better,
I authored best sellers.
Now the pages of the books,
I sold that were wrong,
I fear will heat my hell nook,
For long times too long.
I judge myself now,
I deserve hell,
Its kingdom I expanded,
I built on well.
I’ve got no more reason to lie,
I’m going tomorrow,
To where I was before this life,
Parlayed such sorrow.
Wow, lot going on here huh?
I am concerned with the tone and questionable confidence in some of these posts. Don, I am concerned because your logic only limits the power of God and only allows you to believe parts of the Bible are true. I was brought up in a church that taught similar teaching as what you have posted here. I left the church for 10 years still as a believer but in search of a Church opperating in the Power of God. I believe if God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and He did all of the wonderous miracles in the Old Testament and all of the miracles in the New Testament, the only reason we don’t see the church doing the same is lack of faith and a rationalizing that it was for then and not now. That doesn’t even make sense. We have the same God and He is always the same!!! The church was given the Power of God through the Holy Spirit and the Church preformed miracles through this Power. Jesus himself said even the faith of a mustard seed can move a mountain. So, how little the Church’s faith must be if we don’t see these things being manifested. I believe a church that does not acknowledge the Power of God, and does not accept God’s promises to the Church cannot be affective. How about this to snack on. Everytime God came down to earth to dwell, He only dwelt in Wealth worthy for the greatest king. Remember the Tabernacle. So yes, wealth matters. For God to come back for the Church/Bride, He must come back for an unblemished, gorgous, wealthy bride. Unless you believe God will accept a poor, beaten, lack luster, unfaithful Bride who doesn’t even accept His promises or blessings. How dare any of us through this thinking decide not to give God the Bride He told us he is coming for. Why, through pointless reasoning do we limit what God is trying to do to give Him second best? Further more, I caution your judgement of people with gifts such as healing or prophecy. Are some out there a fraud to mimic the Power of God? Yes! But, I would take a few steps back and ask why you are generalizing and why you limit God’s Power? When those false profits do those things to mislead they are simply trying to mimic the true Power of God which, means that the Church does have that power. All Satan has ever done is copy what God does to mislead people. Satan will go as far as to mimic the Trinity in the end times. On that thought, read about the end times. Want to know one reason the wicked will hate the church so much? Cause we will have their money. Its right there in the Bible. And, the Bible is real or it is not. You can’t pick parts. O yea, about God only dwelling in wealth…read about the New Jerusalem. That place sounds pretty saturated with wealth. When God taught us to pray He said “Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven”. That means it is God’s will for all that is of heaven to be here on earth. Did you ever read about the wealth of heaven? Hmmmm. So again, God only dwells in wealth. Seems He doesn’t want to sell himself short, so why do you sell yourself short with the belssings God has given us? I believe much of this comes from two things. One is a lack of understanding of who we are in Christ, our inheritence, our promises, and our purpose, etc… The second is because since the New Testament church, religion has fornicated with and killed much of the church. Jaded teachings have been past on through generations and we now have a powerless Church for the most part. Some churches, thank God have light. Check out Isaiah 61 and 62. The Church will eventually be turned. The Church will rebuild cities, etc… If you want to discuss topics I think that is fine I just caution how the argument is projected and the delivery of it. Cause if you’re wrong, you will be held accountible. Also, as someone who is learning to use the gift of discernment more and more, don’t be so quick to strike. Cause one of us gifted with healing may have to pick the ear up of the ground and put it back on the side of your target’s head.
Nobody is limiting the power of God. God can and does do what He wants. Nevertheless, what is what going on with the healing and prosperity gospel has nothing to do with God. God does not run a circus and the clowns of presumption are not speaking for Him or healing anyone.
Those are the facts and I have no fear of God telling me otherwise. If you think God is working through people with a message like yours prove it! One might think that after forty years of this nonsense that someone could actually produce a verified healing that can be observed like opening the eyes of the blind or growing back a limb. Why do you not go to hospitals and cure terminal patients and replace the surgeons? The truth is that you are all a bunch of silly children playing God anointed me games.
You confuse material wealth with spiritual wealth. It does not take faith to think that God wants you rich, believing that is just misguided presumption and lustful greed. It takes true faith to live for God when your do not have worldly riches and you have to depending on God for your DAILY living. You talk about the Lord’s prayer but why pray “give us THIS DAY our DAILY bread” if you think God wants you to have it all now? That is a contradiction.
Everything you said tells me that you have no understanding and that you think with a carnal mind. People like you are the problem in Christianity not the solution.
You talk about what is in the Bible but by what you said the only passages you know are the ones you can misapply to satisfy the desires of your flesh. Your claims are so ridiculous that I do not even want to waste my time with people like you because I know from experience that people like you are willfully blind. The only gospel you want to hear is how it can please your flesh. You want to act out the role of a little god to acquire worldly riches and fame.
God will give those who live by faith great riches and glory in eternity but He has not given out those rewards yet because that time has not come. The riches of Heaven are not for men of corrupted flesh. Those who live for the things of this sinful world hate God. The role Jesus told you to act out is the role of a servant not a King. Seeking world riches will only corrupt your soul. You cannot serve two masters.
Issiah 61 and 62 is talking about Israel in the millennium not about how God wants the Church to be rich in worldly things. This is a perfect example that you have no understanding of the scriptures. All you have is the often repeated Word Faith presumptions.
If you think what I said was harsh I cannot tell you how much people who preach your gospel of greed in the name of Christianity disgusts me. Prosperity teachers and healing clowns open up Christianity to mockery and Charlatans . I think Paul would say put them out of the Church! So save me the lecture about how I should show Christian love and false humility to you.
Good points, Don.
If you applied the standards of the prosperity gospel preachers to the Apostle Paul, I guess he lacked faith as he didn’t live in a big place, wear fancy clothes or have a big bank account.
Additionally, they’d have to say our Lord didn’t meet their faith requirements either since he stated he had no place to lay his head. I guess he didn’t have enough faith to get that beach-side condo in Caesarea!
And how come these guys never talk about Jesus, salvation, sin or redemption. Only about stuff, health and the easy life?
Sorry, gotta go rub my green, faith cloth and pour some prosperity water on my head and believe that the Lord will leave me a quarter under my pillow and heal my receding hairline before I wake up in the morning.
Both Morris Cerullo and Benny Hinn are preaching wealth transfer but they are still stealing money from the sheep instead of using the transfered wealth?
http://www.bennyhinn.org/yourlife/financialfreedom/default.cfm?pid=58
Financial Freedom
God Will Supply Your Need
By Morris Cerullo
Regardless of the conditions you face, as the world’s economy continues to crumble around you, you do not need to be fearful! Your position is a position of strength and power!
God promised you: “The Lord knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever. They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.” (Psalm 37:18-19)
God promised that, in the days of famine, you will be satisfied! The word “satisfied” in this verse is translated from the Hebrew word “saba” which means “to fill to satisfaction, to be full, to have plenty.”
In this Scripture, we are assured that God knows the ultimate destiny of those who walk uprightly before Him… their inheritance is everlasting. We know that we have an eternal inheritance waiting for us in heaven. However, He is also concerned about our daily existence now, here on earth.
Laid Up for the Righteous
By Benny Hinn
Don’t waste precious time and energy fretting over the riches of an unbeliever. One day the tables will be turned. God’s Word declares:
Here is the fate God allots to the wicked, the heritage a ruthless man receives from the Almighty: However many his children, their fate is the sword; his offspring will never have enough to eat. The plague will bury those who survive him, and their widows will not weep for them. Though he heaps up silver like dust and clothes like piles of clay, what he lays up the righteous will wear, and the innocent will divide his silver. The house he builds is like a moth’s cocoon, like a hut made by a watchman. He lies down wealthy, but will do so no more; when he opens his eyes, all is gone. Terrors overtake him like a flood; a tempest snatches him away in the night. The east wind carries him off, and he is gone; it sweeps him out of his place. It hurls itself against him without mercy as he flees headlong from its power. It claps its hands in derision and hisses him out of his place (Job 27:13-23, NIV).
This may come as a shock to some readers, but diligently seeking wisdom actually brings us money, riches and prosperity! Take a look at what the Bible has to say about the connection between wisdom and money:
Length of days is in her [wisdom’s] right hand, In her left hand riches and honor (Prov. 3:16).
With me [wisdom] are riches and honor, enduring wealth and prosperity (Prov. 8:18, NIV).
[Wisdom is] bestowing wealth on those who love me and making their treasuries full (Prov. 8:21, NIV).
http://www.bennyhinn.org/yourlife/financialfreedom/default.cfm?pid=58
IT IS TO BE NOTED THAT WISDOM TALKED ABOUT IN PROVERBS IS GOD BE IT JESUS OR THE HOLY SPIRIT AND NOT THE GIVING OF MONEY
Those two have been fleecing the gullible for a very long time. It is the main act in their circus routine.
What is the third wave teaching? And who is saying the evil is coming in stronger than ever at the end of May I think they way, but God’s also coming in strong at that time.??
I do believe God will do HIS best to get all saved before the end and show HIMSELF STRONG like Jesus did.
Thanks
The third wave are self anointed appointed apostles, prophets, teachers and healer heretics. They claim they will take the world for Christ and establish Dominion Theology on the earth. Only after they take the world for Christ through their special supernatural powers can Jesus return.
I Don’t know who is saying evil is coming in stronger than ever at the end of May but evil is coming in stronger everyday when good men do nothing. Kingdom Now heretics say all sorts of things that are very subjective or never come true.
God does not do His best as if God can possibly fail. All will be saved that God appointed to be saved and all those not given to Jesus can never be saved.
Before Jesus returns all those who live on earth will go through a great fiery trial. People basically will be given a choice. They can choose to follow Jesus which most likely will bring about the death of their body through persecution or they can choose to reject Jesus and then they will lose both body and soul when they are appoint their part with the Devil and his angels in the Lake of Fire.
Of course everyone can escape these trials if they make Jesus their Lord and Savior before this trial begins on earth. The trial is not for the Church who already are in Christ it is to force people on earth to make a choice between God’s King and Satan’s king before the establishment of God’s promised kingdom on earth. The time of this grace is coming to an end because the Kingdom is now very near.
God can give whatever He wants to whoever He wants’ whenever He wants…and you don’t have to send any money to a bad hair, manipulative, mind-controlling, and scripture twisting TV preacher. Period.
What irritates me is preachers that con those less knowledgable in God’s word, out of their money with promises that God will OWE them a 30-60-100% return for the SEED ( I’m sick of that term) MONEY that they send in.
Why do you never hear a prosperity pimp mention Matt. 5:22-23 ? “If you bring a gift ( your little check to the TV preacher) to the alter…and have a nought against your brother…put down your gift ( in other words it is worthless to God at this point …irregardless of what the TV preacher tells you) , get right with your brother…then come and make your offer.” In other words if your have grievences with another…your seed money is no good. God ain’t blessing any of it.
You can not do ANYTHING to twist God’s arm… God owes you nothing.
The blessings are all flowing in ONE direction…to the prosperity pimps cofers! They live in million dolar homes, fly on privately owned jets, and have 50 million dollar church budgets…what did you get for your “SEED”?
If you could really just send in a SEED and then God would be bound to give you a 30- 60-100% return…every banking institution in the world would be operating in these principals.
“It only works for christians” you say… Then why is every Christian not a multi-millionaire?
ALSO…When did the term BLESSING become to only mean monetary wealth? “Oh he is doing great he is really blessed.” The Lord blessed me with a raise.”
If a millionaire is suffering from extreme depression, and fear and anxiety… would he want more money as a blessing? Or joy and peace as a blessing?
Hi Don,
Thanks. i’m very happy and relieved to find people who genuinely love God and not money like alot of greedy preachers scammers. The churches in Singapore are saturated with this type of wrong teaching and I’ve been looking long and hard for fellow Christians who really read the word of God and not make their bellies their God. Thanks again.
Shalom,
Jeseca
You are very right about these people. I guess you could say I am an International fugitive because of the practices of trafficking witchcraft and the human trafficking that these people are involved in and more. I have been chronicaling my experiences from these people since 2004 and reporting to the Federal Athorities and International Athorities since 2007 and these people are very much in error, and very much exposed. Beleive this. I am very blessed to be able to report to authorities in the church and government. Keep informing the public of the invasion of private lives that these leaders are practicing on and against the public with the use of estoric practices and it gets real deep.
I agree with Jeff, I think Don over generalised and also became guilty of the same offence he accused those preaching the wealth transfer (quoting out of contest). We must not fail to understand that God’s word cannot be subject to carnal reasoning just like Don is trying to make us believe. Wealth transfer is scriptural and there are scriptural records on this. To an ordinary person, it will be absurd to think that the wealth of the world will be transfered to the church, which is just a proof to scripture that a carnal man cannot understand the things of the spirit. It is high time we stopped subjecting God’s Word to intellectual or carnal reasoning because by so doing, the Word of God cannot deliver anything to us.
Scripture is subject to intellectual and carnal reasoning because we all have human brains. I understand your subtle insinuations but I have every bit as much of the Holy Spirit as you do. That is another arrogance of those in the Word Faith movement. The teaching that had a second Baptism of the Holy Spirit that makes them spiritual and the rest of Christianity carnal. Thus, they can understand what is spiritual discerned and we cannot not.
Sure there are a few scriptures that support God taking from the rich and giving to the poor but that does not support a whole theology that says God is now going to take the riches of the world and give it to the Church in this age. The Church inherits all good things but not before its transformation into the likeness of Christ. Nevertheless, we never inherit the covetousness that is evident in this carnal sinful third wave wealth transfer movement.
Klexym, you know, the limits on your spiritual mind, to me are quite astounding. Since when did the wealth of “this world” matter to true Christians? The real “wealth transfer” will be when we are transfered into the Kingdom of Heaven. This is Christianity 101.
You made one excellent point though, “a carnal man cannot understand the things of the spirit.”
And as for Donovan’s argument that, “For God to come back for the Church/Bride, He must come back for an unblemished, gorgous, wealthy bride.” We have a colloquialism for that. It’s known as “marrying up” (either in money or looks). Jesus DOES NOT “marry up”.
The “abundant life” that Jesus speaks of is not a “stuff” thing, it is a relationship “thing.” God spoke the very creation into existence and He is master of all things – He created all things and He gave them their needs and desires, and He is the ultimate fulfillment of these things. He knows what we need in our temporal condition, BUT this condition is temporary – He knows that our greater needs transcend what we will eat, what we will wear, and where we will live. Yet as the the owner of all of these things, and the good father to His children, He will meet all our needs, and the very greatest need we have is an intimate relationship with Him. ALL ELSE is incidental by comparison. It’s one of the reasons Jesus told His disciples that his “bread” was to do the will of the Father. This present world should have no hold on us if we are holding tightly onto our God! Upon even our very bodies we are not to cling! He has made us for Himself and we will find no true rest and contentment in anyone or anything less.
Don, Just wondering, How come I don’t have an avatar?
Never mind I see it now. Sorry.
Yes, what it comes down to is that you did not fill in an email address. Avatars are linked to the email address. Also, if you do not fill out the email I will have to approve what you post every time you post. That is why your comments have not appeared instantly.
Of course anyone can have there own personalize Gavatar by just going to Gavatar.com and following the instructions and uploading a picture.
While appreciating the replies to the comment I made, I need to correct Don’s Impression that I have ‘subtle insinuations” and a demonstration of a kind of “arrogance” from those in the word of faith movement. None of these described my position on the subject and I don’t believe in all the denominational segregation we ascribe to fellow christians. As a child of God, we belong to one body (Body of Christ) and whatever we do to that body is what matters to Him to whom we all belong. What we should know is that if God says there shall be wealth transfer from the wicked to the righteous, it is final and because some people are peaching this wrongly does not mean that the scripture is wrong. When we talk about the wealth of the world, who owns the wealth of the world in the first place? Is it not God? Did man not lose the wealth to satan because of sin? And was man’s sin not a result of lack of simple belief (faith) in what God said? If God says He will transfer the wealth of the world to the church, is it in His power to do it or not? is He going to transfer the wealth when we get to heaven like Ken C said? The wealth transfer will come via salvation of souls of the wealthy ones in the world now who do not know God hitherto. Wealth transfer is not about collecting money from the people in the world and giving it to the christians in the church, God is not a thief or robber. Because all souls belongs to Him, and He delights not in the death of sinners (poor and wealthy ones), He’ll reach out to them through the church and save their souls. And they, after being saved will commit themselves to serving God even with their resources. When we claim that we are serving God, we must be truly serving by commiting ourselves and with all of what we have. Wealth transfer is both spiritual and physical. We should not allow those who are preaching the scriptural truth in a wrong way deprive us of the truth in the infallible Word of Life. Lastly, just a reminder, Christ knows it is difficult for us to have faith in what God says, and he asked us all a question in Luke 18:8. The ones who take the Word as it is hook line and sinker are difficult to find. If God says it, then so be it, don’t bother analysing who is preaching what, it is not our duty to judge them, it is God’s own business. He knows how, when and when to separate the chaff from the wheat. Thanks.
The bottom line is that like those in this movement what you are really preaching is Dominion Theology. Dominion theology is now rising like a plague within Christianity. You want the Church to take dominion before the King physically returns, deals with evil and sets up a kingdom of righteousness.
Rather than get into that heresy here I will just refer you to my article on Dominion Theology.
Now you know why I write these articles. So I do not have to keep repeating myself on every comment of every blog and every email to me.
Don, a pox upon me for a clumsy lout. I feel like I’ve contributed to your stress level these last weeks by needing to have my comments moderated. My bad.
Nah, I am always glad to see any comment from you. But I am glad you figured it out. The email address does not even need to be valid to get a Avatar but if anyone wants to be automatically notified when someone posts a follow-up comment, the box has to be checked and that email address has to be valid.
I thought your forum is for comparing spiritual things with spiritual and to the end that we all may be spiritually nurtured into the fullness of Christ. Having read your postings so far, it is contrary to that expectation. Sorry for participating in your forum. Your responses to other perspectives different from yours smarks of arrogant dogmatism and intolerance. Spending ones precious time here brings no spiritual edification whatsoever. Thanks anyway.
The title of the Blog tells you what this Blog is about. Your statement itself shows a belief that you are more spiritual than anyone that would oppose what you support. Your like the Far Left that calls everyone a racist because they have no rational (or in this case spiritual) argument for what they believe.
The truth of the matter is that you came on this blog to support Word of Faith and Dominion Theology and I am dogmatic that Word Faith Theology and Dominion Theology is heresy so your taking your ball and going home.
What spiritual things have you presented here by supporting Dominion Theology Third Wave heretics with their concept of an imminent worldly wealth transfer to Christians? What have you said here that nurtures people into the fullness of Christ? Supporting obvious heresy is not nurturing to the body of Christ.
Klexym, far be it from me to speak for Don on his own blog. Quite frankly your post of 12:25 pm didn’t make sense to me. Your rhetorical argument was reminiscent of a diatribe. You answered most of your own questions so I felt no need to respond. For instance you said “What we should know is that if God says there shall be wealth transfer from the wicked to the righteous, it is final…” Where is that said? In what context? and “If God says He will transfer the wealth of the world to the church, is it in His power to do it or not?” again, where? when? Some specificity please.
Am I to understand your argument thus? 1.Wealthy people get saved. 2. They give all their possessions to the Church. 3.The Church then uses that wealth to reach poor people and get them saved. 4.They in turn commit all that they have to the Church. This formula didn’t work out so well for the medieval church.(by church here I mean body of believers) It worked out real well for the formal Church!
“…what is what going on with the healing and prosperity gospel has nothing to do with God. God does not run a circus and the clowns of presumption are not speaking for Him or healing anyone.
…One might think that after forty years of this nonsense that someone could actually produce a verified healing that can be observed like opening the eyes of the blind or growing back a limb. Why do you not go to hospitals and cure terminal patients and replace the surgeons? The truth is that you are all a bunch of silly children playing God anointed me games.” I think Don needs to leave the comfort of his exalted theologian office and come to the mission field to see for himself what God is doing in healing and raising of the dead back to life all by faith. How many souls could be saved by the endless theological arguments against the ‘word of faith movement” that he is concentrating on here? I have seen an ordinary believer (not a preacher this time) who believed in the Word of life and received back to life his brother who was dead for two (2) days and kept in the morgue. So if you need evidence/proofs, please leave the comfort of your office or room and come to where the work is. Theology will not save souls, just like the Pharisees in Jesus time, they know much of the law but far away from the truth. They know much of God but deny the power of God. The gospel of Jesus includes healing of the sick and oppressed of the devil. I am not saying that there are no fake preachers out there who are out to devour the sheep using God’s name, but it is not my duty neither that of Don to embark on a long discourse like this to judge them contrary to God’s command that we shouldn’t judge. We have more work to do in the field which requires that our faith in Him that sent us is in place, else we become cheap morsel for the enemy. I am not interested in theology and calling of names, what we need as a church is a working understanding of the scripture in line with the time and season that we are in. Are we being occupied as commanded by Christ or are we losing those things that we have worked for (2John 7). Is it nonsense/heresy for HIV Aids patient to be healed by faith in the word of God? Is it nonsense/heresy for a woman who lost her womb to surgical incompetence to have a set of twins? All these and others are backed with medical proofs. If prosperity has nothing to do with God why does God take pleasure in the prosperity of His saints? (Psalm 35:27). God said He will give the wealth of the wicked to the righteous (Isaiah 60:5,11; 61:6; 66:12, Ecclesiastes 2:26; 2Kings 7;). The purpose of the wealth is not for squandering, but for the work of the gospel. Let anyone who is still in doubt about the efficacy of the word of God in the area of healing and prosperity come to the mission fields and see for himself. What we need is not theology (the letter) but practical application and manifestation of the Word of God (the Spirit) 2Corinthians 3:6.
And what office might you be sitting in writing these comments? If you cannot provide evidence where those claims can be verified why should anyone believe you?
I was really talking about your self anointed that do their circus performance on TV for the whole world to watch. I do not deny that God still does anything He wants to on earth but His Spirit is sure not working through Third Wave self anointed heretics.
You think after forty years you could come up with one or two documented healing in the United States from one of the healing circuses. Why not empty out the hospitals? That would bring prosperity alone because twenty percent of our wealth would not be going to pay for health care.
The raising the dead claims are always taking place in some obscure place. Jesus rose people publicly and so did Paul but where are the public demonstrations coming from all these new Apostles in The New apostolic Reformation (NAR.)
Contrary to what you claim the Church is to judge all things to prove what is acceptable and true. You think the Church is going to inherent the worlds wealth and its positions of power but yet you think we cannot even judge the smallest matters of Christian faith and practice?
I guess in your mind the spirit is selective and only cares about prosperity and not about truth. The Spirit does care about lies and presumptions carried out in His name and He also raises up people to expose heretics and wolves in sheep’s clothing in the Church. Gee, I wonder what all the warnings were about in the NT if the Church was just suppose to accept a different gospel and false claims? And they are not even claims founded on doctrine because you already discounted doctrine when you said we do not need theology.
Theology saves souls everyday if the theology is from God. Doctrines on salvation is theology in case you do not know. Are you saying people can get saved without hearing the word of God? Do you really think they can only get saved by signs and wonders inc.?
You claim all these healings but where is the proof? Present them to the press they would love to check all these proofs. In fact, they did already many times and no such proof was found.
Sure, there are always unexplained healings it is something that medicine is aware of but that proves nothing about the NAR claims that they heal people. Cancers just disappear for no reason at all as do other deadly diseases and it has no link to healers and their is no correlation to the Word Faith Movement. These healing just happen for God’s own reasons. So because God heals some people and gives messages to others should apostles lay hands on people so they will become healers and should the church set up schools so people can learn how to be prophets of God? NAR thinks so.
So where is this great mission field where there is no theology but there is prosperity other than in impoverished nations that have no prosperity and little health? If the stories of all the people getting saved in Africa were actually true the continent would have been healed and saved ten times over but the facts are the natives are very sickly and they are mixing native paganism with Pentecostalism and creating a hybrid religion that just does whatever is right in their own eyes.
My dear friends, and those who are quickly prone to fault finding, back biting, and using the sure word of god to prove their enemies as heretics, and their friends as “ones of the fold”; My my. Don, you have shown yourself. Either raise the dead in public or STOP maligning us for disbelieving you, your take on the bible, your professed ability to judge others motives, proofs, and promises, and your belligerent “no man has the hold second baptism of spirit if i dont say so” attitude. Raise the dead or keep your “Christ is My God Not Theirs” in your own heart instead of our ears. Raise the dead, show us that sign you demand yourself. Or shut up. And you will surely shut up, and keep your little blog to those who want, wander, wonder. I need my scriptures, not YOUR understanding of them. I need my heart, not YOUR interpretation of it. I need MY Saviour, not your word about Him, and who His followers are or are not.
To read the scriptures is one thing. To read them to another person is entirely another thing. And to say you need no leaders but you are one, is the depth of Hypocrisy. I do not need you leading. I do not need you leading. I do not need you leading. Jesus is my God. Not you, or your naturally self sustaining judgmental truth.
I am not so delusional that I think I can raise the dead but those in this New Apostolic Reformation Movement apparently are, or more likely they just are greedy liars. So I will turn it back on yourself. Either prove the claims that the self anointed Apostles, prophets and healers of the NAR make, or kindly SHUT UP!
Far too many people have this image that God had a great dislike for the wealthy. However this is far from true. I could rest my case aginst this ideology with King Solomon alone, but the list goes on and on and on in the Bible of wealthy men God loved. It is always about the heart. Time and time agin we find that it is a matter of the heart in his word. Obviously we all know where he said that it is more difficult for a rich man to get into Heaven than for a camel to get through the eye of the needle. Again far too many people misinterpret what is said in this passage. However lets get to the subject at hand. I honestly don’t know if we will have a great transfer of wealth to Christians or not, but I do feel that will be the case. Look at Nazi Germany as an example. The world was in a Great Depression almost as bad as the one we are about to enter. However Jews did extremely well so much so they became even wealthier. The question is why. The reason was because they had Biblical financing. They followed Gods word in regards to money. Because of this great wealth the Jews had the Germans and the rest of the world became jealous and hated them for it. Could not the same thing happen again. I hear that History repeats itself. I also hear that there’s nothing new under the sun. You speak in absolute terms. I have found the more absolute a person to include myself the more incorrect we truly are. Remember don’t think inside the box. Don’t think out side the box. There is no box.
Julian,
So you want us to believe that wealth came upon the Jews because they followed the Bible and the Germans and others became jealous and killed the Jews. So that means the same fate might be on the horizon for Christians when they get this wealth transfer that some in the “Word of Faith” cult say is coming.
So with your rational the Christians will be persecuted for their wealth rather than their faith in Jesus. That could all be very true if Word of Faith people actually got what they claim. Maybe Word of Faith people should claim something less tangible so they do not receive the same fate of the Jews after the last depression.
The church has become as guilty as the Pharisees about telling God what he can and can’t do. I am so thankful that a number of years ago the Lord lead me to a full gospel church and for the first time in my life I have seen the Holy Spirit move and do things that I only use to read about in the Bible. I am here as a witness of the Great I AM, the Heavely Father, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Holy One of Isreal that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are operating on this earth and to state otherwise is a lie of the enemy. It just shows how deeply Satan has penetrated the Church. My prayer is that the church at large wakes up to this reality. If you don’t believe me, just go overseas and witness for yourselves what God is doing in the Arab world. Jesus is appearing to them and they are coming to Christ by the thousands. Oh Lord, thank you for your blood shed.
Maria,
You swallowed the hook and line from the Pentecostals hucksters or you choose to spread disinformation here on purpose.
Most of the Arabs coming to Jesus are the one’s that culturally already identify as Christians. There are not thousands of new coverts coming from the Islamic Arab world. If you listened to these hucksters over the years, Africa would have been converted to Christ ten times over by now. Instead Islam and native paganism controls most of Africa. Walking to the front to say the magic words and kiss the ring of the self anointed preacher never saved anyone.
Since most of these hucksters will not give the gospel of salvation but preach another false gospel that appeals to the flesh most of these people are being emotionally manipulated but they are not being saved at all. They soon return to their old ways, until the next huckster shows up. Yeah, the same people keep getting “saved” over and over. That is how they get their numbers.
Nobody I know says gifts of the Holy Spirit are not operating on the earth today. What most say is that the sign gifts of tongues, healers, and direct revelation (prophecy) were only given to authentic the true Gospel and those that laid the foundation of the New Covenant Church. Once the words of Christ became known to the Church and the foundational teachings became known we find Revelation from God by studying the inerrant doctrine of scriptures.
We cannot get infallible doctrine by observing and believing subjective mystical experiences and the shows put on by the self appointed anointed neo-shamans that are leading people away from true Christian doctrine.
As the scriptures declare. In times past God revealed Himself in many ways, but in the last days He revealed Himself through His Son. The scriptures speak of Jesus and gives His words to us. The Hucksters promote twisted scriptures and their own agenda.
A warning to the wise should be sufficient.