I have found one absolute truth in every evangelical Bible believing church. (I have attended many churches with all the moves that I have made over the years). That absolute truth is that most people that attend these churches have never read through the Bible even once in their entire Christian lives. How do they really know a biblical Jesus without reading the Bible? Apparently some Christians think they know all about Jesus but they do not know or care that the Bible is the only infallible source that accurately speaks of Him?
I realize that there is Christian teaching in many of these churches where you can find out things about Jesus without reading the Bible for yourself. Nevertheless, how about a little self motivation to read all that God has given us about the Jesus of the Bible rather than waiting for the pastor or teacher to dig something up for you?
I also know that in these churches there always is a core group that do read the Bible but they are most often just a small minority of the membership. Christians might wonder why it is that they have no motivation to learn about the things of Jesus and what that says about them?
I really do not understand Christians that are not driven to find out the words of God. When I first believed I was driven to read the Bible several times in the first couple of years and I also spent many hours listening to many radio teachers and tapes. I was always finding out new things that I did not fully understand before. I Still do. By the time I first attended a church (a few years later) I had more understanding of the Bible than most people that were attending the church all of their lives. I just do not understand Christians that are not motivated to read the words of God and learn.
How can one really know Jesus without reading the Bible? How can anyone live a fruitful Christian life without knowing the Bible? How do you know you are even saved without reading the Bible? The Bible is all about the work of Jesus in His creation so if you believe Jesus is God and expect Him to save you why do Christians not want to read what God has to say to them? How does a Christian even defend their faith without reading the Bible? Obviously they cannot and cults are well aware of this.
Most Pastors and teachers know what I am saying is true. The Bible illiteracy in our Bible churches is deplorable. One of the things I like about Calvary Chapels is that they teach book by book through the Bible. So if you attend regularly in a Calvary Chapel and stay long enough your going to hear the whole Bible and get the pastors educated commentary on the Bible to boot. However, most churches do not teach through the Bible and I am not saying that they should. The pastors should do what God is telling them to do in the congregation they lead. The ultimate responsibility to know the Bible rests with you alone.
Christians follow “Christian” TV hucksters and book peddlers that tickle their ears with promises of a prosperous life in the flesh because they do not read the Bible. Christians get confused by cults because they do not read the Bible. Christians get sucked into the latest New Age doctrine or successful living fad book because they do not read the Bible. Christians look for answers in pagan theories about the end times because they are not reading the Bible
From the comments on this Christian blog it is clear to me that many people commenting here have never read through or understood the Bible. Don’t take me wrong. Many of the people that come here are the cream of the crop in Christian knowledge and they stand out like a light against the darkness. But how can the biblically illiterate “Christian” come here and discuss Christian topics or claim that I am wrong if they do not even know what God has to say? First read the Bible and see what God says before you tell me I am wrong.
You have “Christians” trying to find a Jesus made up in their own mind through contemplation because they will not read the Bible. You have “Christians” that go to barns on Sunday that have entertainment services because they do not want to hear the truth from a real Bible teacher. You have “Christians” that think that people can be saved outside of Jesus because they do not know the Bible. Every latest heresy of the week is popular with Christians that are not reading the Bible.
I remember listening to a well known Bible commentator that had been commenting on the Bible and Christian topics for years admit that he never had read through the Bible. It took a lot of guts for him to admit that and I am happy to hear that he finally did, but I have to wonder why a Christian radio commentator had not read through the Bible even once. How many others teachers like him are still out there?
Today we have translations of the Bible that are written so anyone can read them yet people were more Bible literate when all we had was the Bible in King James English. The membership of Christian churches are not only dumbed down and apathetic they are caught up with everything in the world but God’s own word. “Christians” find time for the Internet, for talking or texting on cell phones all day, and for watching endless TV but they cannot find time to read God’s word.
Is it then any wonder why most of America claims to be Christian but hedonism, debauchery, pride and corruption of all sorts reigns in our land when America has become a land of Christians that never learned the Bible. Most Americans think they know Jesus without reading what He said. One has to wonder how they know they have Jesus?
We recently moved to a very conservative “Christian” area of the United States but I have been told by other Christians here not to trust most “Christian” real estate agents in this area. I should not trust most of the local Bank owners. I am told not to trust many of the “Christian” builders and handymen. I am told not to trust most “Christians” that provided services. My wife has already been defrauded by a “Christian” con artist running the “Christian” youth center. I am told and am inclined to believe that the “Christian” politicians and prosecutors in this county will take the easy way out. Drugs and all sorts of sex sins and perversion reign in this “Christian” area.
Few “Christians” attend Sunday evening and mid week service in the best of Churches. “Christian” people lie to your face and tell you what they think you want to hear. Pathological liars in this “Christian” area are a plague. I do not know what Bible all these “Christians” are reading that makes them think they can act like heathen and call themselves Christians. But hey! This is “heartland “Christian” America”!
Judgment is coming on “Christians” and on America because “Christians” obviously lack knowledge about the things of God and what He requires of His people. We should take heed to what God said to Israel as an example for us. All Christians should learn what God says and take heed before this passage happens to the Bible illiterate “Christians” of America.
Hos 4:6. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.
That is sad. I can tell you that most churches in the “Bible Belt” states are in bad shape. You have pastors acting like CEOs and deacons being the pastor’s slaves. And these preachers preach sermons that has no real substance. And most church members are so Biblically illiterate that they can not use discernment and keep their pastor accountable. I was listening to Brannon Howse the other day and he said that one of the reasons why the declining of America was happening was due to Biblical illiteracy.
Basically I like to listen to the weekly sermons from John MacArthur. I enjoy listening to sound expository preaching. If anybody like to check this out here is part 1 of a sermon by John MacArthur on why he is committed to expository preaching http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/GTY126
BTW what do think about the Jesus Bible Codes on the weapons that are military uses?
A Christian business owner just wanted to put Bible versus on his products. Nobody made anyone buy them. Christians can make weapons for government so I do not see a problem.
To Justin you better believe if I was in the military/ fighting a war I would have a Bible verse or two engraved on my weapon. Side note about the Iraqi war. God is in control and becuase of the US involvment in Iraq a door has opened for the Gospel to be preached and heard more easly in Iraq then when Saddam was in power! So God Bless our troops and if a verse like Psalms 144:1 (or any other verse) gives them strength, courage, refuge, then To God Be The Glory.
I do know that I need to do a better job of getting into and studying The Word, good article makes me ponder some things and I can testify to others.
Don on reading The Bible. Are you saying it must be read from Genisis 1:1 to Revelations 22:21 in that order?
The problem with doing buisness with people from arkansas is that they are from arkansas.lol but as far as running a “Christian” buisnesses it is like doing work for your family. They want it down cheaper , more quickly and become experts all of the sudden at your job.
Hi Don,
It’s interesting that you wrote an article about this because earlier today i was talking to some fellow Christians about other “Christians” that are falling into the trap of the prosperity gospel. I posted a video on my facebook page of a preacher (Dr. Leroy Thompson) saying a whole bunch of gibberish; unscriptural nonsense that Jesus never taught. I even quoted the same Hosea verse you quoted because it’s the truth. Very few read the word of God nowadays so any wolf in sheep’s clothing comes and decieves them and they fall into traps such as these. God’s people are perishing because of lack of knowledge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fknk2MO0MyU
That’s the link to the video in case you have not seen it. It disgusts me because this is a counterfeit Christianity and these fake Christian preachers are leading others astray and giving the KING a bad name. It enrages me that many call themselves Christians yet live and teach others a lifestyle contrary to that of Christ!
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.” (2 timothy 4:3-4)
Clint, said,
“Don Are you saying it must be read from Genisis 1:1 to Revelations 22:21 in that order?”
Absolutely not!
By the way, I live in the Ozarks of Missouri not Arkansas.
I agree with u Don and Clint. But I noticed that the government said that what the company did was wrong. And few military guys basically mocked Christianity.
I have to say a word about the referenced ABC News report on the defense contractor Trijicon which produces the ACOG (Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight) and other weapons related items.
The ABC News report is pure bunkum. Decades old bunkum at that. There are no secret or “hidden codes.” That Trijicon has been including Bible verse references within its proprietary part numbers (i.e. nomenclatureS) has been public knowledge for AT LEAST 25 years.
The report is at face value a blatantly anti-American Armed Forces and anti-Christian diatribe which ABC News was well aware of having originated in old news reports. Their researchers must have acquired their jouralism credentials from a cereal boxtop coupon.
Aid and comfort to the enemy used to be known as treason. Now that the world has been turned upon its head in the Obama era this kind rubbish is regarded of as journalism by the despicable libtard left and its dhimmi allies.
What else would you expect? Now I am sure the company will have to stop putting on the scriptures or lose the contracts.
The beasts of Revelation are alive and well in America. From religion, law, justice, financial, and in every-day business. I have never seen so much corruption in all faucets
of a society. From your typical mom and pop stores to big business. Everyone has submitted to satan and become part of the beast.
Judgement is near, if not at the door.
I agree that there is a lot of corruption in America but saying that everyone has submitted to Satan is much too broad a brush.
Indeed, the corruption Lynn writes about as existing in America also exists within all other nations of this Earth, including Israel. This condition is due to the human condition of being fallen in sin.
America is no different than any other nation with respect to the pervasiveness of sin. However, America does hold the distinction of being the home for more of the Bride of Christ than any other nation on this earth.
Instead of bashing America for sin I would prefer to PRAISE GOD that His Bride lives here in abundant numbers and coes great work regarding His Word and Gospel to all the nations, and especially to Israel.
Just a short reaction to the article called CHRISTIANS THAT KNOW JESUS WITHOUT READING THE BIBLE
As I am a Dutchman (a man living in Holland) I think it would be improper if I should react to the many things written in this blog, in the article I mentioned and in the comments on the article that have to do with the United States, the people of the U.S. and the institutions of the U.S.
I will only write about the fact that what the article I mentioned says is true: all over the world there are hundreds of millions of people who consider themselves Christians and are members of Christian Churches but who never read the Bible. There are also many Churches and priests and minsters who simply refuse to tell the parishioners that reading the Bible is something they must do every day if they want to be saved and be admitted into God’s Kingdom
The Roman Catholic Church, for instance, probably still has more members than all Protestant Churches combined but, though it does no longer forbid its members to read the Bible (as it did in the past) it certainly does not promote Bible reading as strongly as it should.
And there are mumerous Protestant Churches with hundreds of millions of members that have a very lax attitude towards reading and studying the Bible.
I totally agree with the author of Christians That Know Jesus Without Reading the Bible that the truth is very simple: daily Bible reading is absolutely necessary if people want to know God, God’s thoughts and words and the thoughts and words of Jesus. Being baptized and going to Christian religious services on Sundays is not enough to attain salvation.
On the other hand we should not forget that the Bible is a very thick and very difficult book. It cannot be read in the way people can read novels or articles in newspapers or magazines. People who want to read the Bible and also want to understand what they read need some form of guidance and help. Through a good book or a good website. Or through attending Bible classes given by people who have read the Bible a number of times and understand it well
Willem Kooijman wrote:
“People who want to read the Bible and also want to understand what they read need some form of guidance and help.”
This is one of the purposes for which Jesus prayed to the Father to send us Ruach HaKodesh (the Holy Spirit) :
John 14:15-17
““If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.’
All Christians should pray to the Father in Jesus name that they may receive baptism in the Ruach HaKodesh, for as Jesus said immediately prior to the above quote (verses 13-14):
“And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.”
If Christians had the Ruach HaKodesh baptism they would be supercharged with the very essence of God living within them and the topic of this article would be very much a moot point.
Sean,
There are no true Christians that do not have the Holy Spirit. So Christians should not pray to be baptized when Jesus already gave the Holy Spirit as we were born into the Body of Christ. If you are talking about those calling themselves Christians but are not Christians then they need to obtain salvation and then they will receive the Holy Spirit.
That is not saying that all Christians should not seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit .
The only infallible source of information that tells us the things of God is the Bible. Christians need to know what God said and that is also why God gave the Body a five fold ministry for the equipping of the saints to maturity. Even so, all is based on the infallible foundation of scripture.
Don,
If acceptance and belief in Christ Jesus automatically results in the Ruach HaKodesh indwelling the individual believer, then why was it necessary for Jesus to ask the Father to send the Ruach HaKodesh down to the disciples (i.e. the very first Christians) on the Day of Pentecost?
Why and how did these original Christians, the Lord’s Apostles – men who witnessed the Lord crucifixion and His Ressurection and ascension into heaven – and others “from every nation under heaven,” receive their salvation (and thus receive the Spirit) only to have to wait in Jerusalem as instructed by the Lord for the baptism in the Spirit occur some days later as recorded by Paul in Acts 2? Why was the Day of Pentecost even necessary if they already had the Spirit within them?
I am one of those Christians who believes that baptism in the Ruach HaKodesh and the indwelling are two distinct acts of the Father upon the individual believer. I am one of those who takes the words of Paul literally that having the Ruach HaKodesh within is not an automatic thing. Paul wrote in Romans 8:9, and I emphasize:
“But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, IF INDEED THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.”
If the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ Paul tells us about was automatically and permanently within every Christian believer, then sin for that believer would be an impossibilty as Paul futher explains in the text of Romans 8. The Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the Ruach HaKodesh CANNOT SIN.
Was it not a special Baptism of the Holy Spirit which empowered the Apostles and the early Christians to carry out the Great Commission? I do not believe it is any different for Christians in this day and age to pray as the Apostles pryaed for the baptism of the Spirit. I know this because I have experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit and it is an experience exactly as described in Acts 2, akin to a living, flickering flame which fills the body completely, from head to toe, and manifests in some form of the Gifts of the Spirit within the individual. This is an event separate and distinct from the act of prayer and the recieiving of grace and forgiveness by the Blood of the Lamb.
I simply cannot comprehended how some Pentecostals can even think that their non Pentecostal Christian brethren can do the works they do without the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. In general I see no greater works of the Spirit among Pentecostals than I do with non Pentecostals.
My firm belief is that all true Christians have the Holy Spirit so this is not going to become the place for debate for or against Pentecostal Theology or subjective selective choosing of scripture for the second Baptism argument of Pentecostal Theology.
In Short, I will just say that the usual explanation of why we see the Holy Spirit given after belief in the book of Acts is that the Spirit indwelt Church with evidence was first given to Jews, then to the half Jew and then to the Gentiles. After it was demonstrated by Holy Spirit manifestations that the gospel of salvation was given to all believers there is nothing further in scripture about a Holy Spirit baptism with evidence coming after conversion to Christ. There is plenty about an infilling of the Holy Spirit in later books but I think some Pentecostals mix the issues. By the way Sean, I know most of the issues having been on both side of the spectrum but a comments section on a blog post is hardly the place to debate them.
If anyone wants arguments against Pentecostal Theology check out the writing of John MacArthur.
The real issue here is that most Christians do not read the Bible. In my experience with Pentecostals it indeed is that some rely on subjective special revelation rather than learning the scriptures and checking out the claims of others against the scriptures. The truth of the matter is that most Pentecostals and non Pentecostals do not study the Bible as they ought.
Quoted from article by Chuck Baldwin
But compare basic morality to the modus operandi of today’s governments, businesses, and churches. Instead of truth and moral principles, we find people who are almost totally absorbed by a culture of deceit, selfishness, ambition, and greed. Rightly does the Scripture say, “The love of money is the root of all evil.” (I Timothy 6:10) Of more than one church or nonprofit ministry leader could it be said, “He doesn’t let his Christianity get in the way of his business.” Ditto for many so-called Christian businessmen and politicians. In fact, a good many religious leaders and churchmen today would not take a backseat to the most greedy, corrupt politician, or shady businessman that could be found.
which brings you to the point of scripture where Yahweh states that; my people parish because of “lack of knowledge” which is a result of them NOT knowing what is truly in the bible and taking their grains of salvation from a corrupt religious system which leads to…..
death and not everlasting life. Why I posted the scripture about the gate being narrow, and few find it.
I read that article by Chuck Baldwin story earlier today. It was a good article and this time I think Baldwin nailed the reason why no political party is going to Save America. It has to start with a return to biblical mortality by the people of the United States that departed from it.
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin565.htm
I totally agree with you Don. Today, society is so ate up with money. I can’t think of the scripture, but I know its there about the root of all evil is the love of money. Our whole society is bowing down to the money changers. Sad state of affairs. Without reading the holy writ, how could anyone have an idea of wisdom, knowing right from wrong, when the very people that our great country produced, is disregarding its very foundation.
one more thing… it’s not about going to church… it is a way of being.
For the record, I am not now nor have I ever been a member of any Pentecostal church or denomination. Pentecostal beliefs have never been a part of my born-again Christian life over the past 40 years. I was raised as a member of a United Methodist church from a young age and then found Christ at the age of 15. My baptism in the Holy Spirit did not occur until a year later during a United Methodist church Lay Witness Mission prayer meeting. I subsequently left the UM church under the conviction of the Holy Spirit and was a born-again nondemominational independent until I found a nearby Calvary Chapel to attend. Nothing I said above has anything to do with Pentecostalism or other similar demoninational doctrine. What I wrote is from my own direct experience. And because I experienced it, I believe it upon the conviction imparted upon me during my baptism experience. You gonna have to trust me on this, but an imparted conviction from the Holy Spirit is as infallible, compelling and as powerful as the printed text of the Word of God because BOTH are the Living Word of God. It is God speaking directly into your heart and soul. My comments were not part of any debate nor were my questions intended to start one. I ask questions only to see if there is an answer to them. That is not debate. It’s a question seeking an answer. That’s all there is to it. My point was that if Christians truly had a baptism of the Holy Spirit there would not be an issue of them not reading the Bible, and they would instead devour The Word from cover to cover, forwards and backwards.
Sean, second Baptism belief is Pentecostal Doctrine so I assumed you got it at a Pentecostal church. Those that teach a second baptism after conversion are also found in lay groups among the liberal mainline churches and the Catholics. I think in most cases the Holy Spirit baptism experience is valid in these churches because most members in them were never saved at all. Most are cultural Christians just practicing a religion that was passed down to them.
By the way, Calvary Chapels are regarded as Pentecostal churches. They however do not teach a second Baptism in the Holy Spirit after conversion at least Chuck Smith does not, nor any Calvary Chapel that I have attended or any Calvary teacher that I have heard.
My answer to your experience would be that you were never truly a Christian until you received the Holy Spirit. But I am not saying that you did or did not become a member of Christ at that prayer meeting. I have no way of knowing if you truly believed prior to that or if you had a infilling of the Spirit as a Christian at the prayer meeting.
I totally agree with you that if people have the Holy Spirit they should devour the word of God. My issue with what you said was when you said if Christians had the Holy Spirit baptism they would be supercharged. I believe Christians have the Holy Spirit or they are not even Christians.
So in our experiences and in others I know. We can agree that when we received the Holy Spirit we were driven to read the word of God. So what can we say about those that are not driven to read about the Jesus they claim to have? Have they even been saved? Are they quenching the Spirit? Have the cares of the world made them like the Laodiceans? Why are some driven to read God’s words after conversion and others are not? Because indeed, we are talking about the vast majority that “call” themselves Christians.
Don wrote:
“My answer to your experience would be that you were never truly a Christian until you received the Holy Spirit.”
Don, where is this word of yours discussed within the Word of God? Where does God say that a human is not truly Christian until he/she recieves the Holy Spirit? The fact he he doesn’t say such a thing.
Isaid above that I had no desire to debate. However, with this unfounded comment is it clear that you insist a debate is ongoing. Your answer to my personal experiences with God? Please.
When I stated above that I “found Christ at the age of 15” that means I most definitely did with knees bent, eyes cosed and heart wide open at the church altar pray the prayer of repentence from sin and acceptance of Jesus as my personal Messiah and of His being the Son of God and most assuredly did become “born-again” as defined by the Gospel of John 1:12-13.
All of humankind at this specific point become children in Christ, mere babes in the Lord, who have yet to be fed and nourished by the Word of God. A great passage on this is found in the entirety of Romans 6 – and in which Paul says nothing about the “Baptism of the Holy Spirit, although he inimates regarding “the benefit” new Christians will reap this in verse 22.
The best that can be said with respect to all of this is to cite Ephesians 4:7-8 in that it was at this time that the Lord bestowed His spiritual gifts and to equipping of the saints for the work of their particular ministry of service. Notice Paul says this after having said “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.” It is after this that Paul related the spiritual gifts:
I believe Paul speaks differently to these things because his conversion to Christ from being a persecuting Pharisaic Jew, as related to us by the Apostle Luke in Acts 9, was entirely different, an expressly unique Divine calling than that of the Apostles and the multitude gathered with them in Acts 2.
The Lord’s doctrine and sovereignty in these things is what matters, and He makes His view clear in Scripture which we have before us as a reference and as guided by the Holy Spirit.
Sean, I was in the Charismatic movement and I know how subjective experiences can be so I really do not want to get into this discussion because I know that some people really believe in a second Baptism and I really do not want to offend these Christians. I will simply say that I believe genuine experiences in Christians are in-fillings of the Spirit not a second Baptism. In-fillings and gifts of the Spirit of course help Christians grow in Christ but they have nothing to do with a second Baptism.
Since Jesus and the Father and the Spirit are one God they cannot be separated in a Christian. The concept of the Holy Spirit being in believers is taught throughout the Bible much like the Trinity. Here is one scripture which implies that all true Christians now have the Holy Spirit and this is really where I want to end this.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him
Don, I respect what you are doing with this site. I came to Christ in the 1970’s as a teenager.
As soon as I came to Christ I understood the Word of God and started to devour it.
The people around me may or may not have come to Christ, they may only have been
cultural christians.(little c). I do have the infilling of the Holy Spirit. A comment that I have to add to this “thread” is that a pastors wife in a charismatic/pentecostal church is that she was very puzzled by Christians who had the infilling of the Holy Spirit and acted like God did not give them a brain to think. Some things are basic common sense. The Lord doesn’t have to give us spiritual inspiration about everything we do. God gave us a brain. A lot of Christians are very stable without expressions of the infilling of the Holy Spirit. But some people act like goof balls because of the infilling and little reading of God’s Word.
Interesting, you are condemning all those who knew Christ before the invention of the printing press… and who could not read or write, or did not speak Latin. You are saying that everyone that could not read the bible did not know Christ.
You are also condemning the apostles and those after them which wrote a vast majority of the book you idolize… Since the bible was not canonized in it’s present form until after the fall of the roman empire.
It’s also alarming that you are blaming a lack of bible reading as the cause of heresy! It’s not a lack of biblical knowledge that’s the problem, it’s a lack of people living out of their hearts, which God has declared good, where God is IN you. It a surplus, of bible read religious people, following their “pastors” and “churches” instead of listening to the God who promised to be with you, in you, all mixed up with you. Who promised to never leave you, and to guide you HIMSELF!!! If you don’t know your heart you will not know Him.
God REQUIRES NOTHING from us. If He needed us to do anything, if he required us to DO anything then Christ died for nothing and it is through our works and only our works that gets us to God… Which is a lie.
It’s not that God couldn’t or wouldn’t relate to us until Christ died on the cross, it was that WE wouldn’t relate to HIM. Christ died because WE separated OURSELVES from God, He never left us… EVER.
You have a very “old testament” view of Jesus. It is clear you have a heart of stone just like the Israelites in bible. If you would consult your heart you would realize He is IN you, there is no need to go to the bible for anything. It’s a great book, most of it doesn’t apply to us because it was written to specific people in a specific time for a specific purpose but it’s a great record of God working in the world.
Unfortunately, you see him like the pharisees “saw” him. You know much about him but you do not know Him. I’ve got news for you. The Religious are among those to whom Jesus will say “I never knew you, away from me, you evil doers!” God is bigger than your small minded religion. Seek Him and you will find him. Period. God is bigger than the bible; and the bible is “inspired” by God in the same way book about the titanic is “inspired” by the titanic.
You love your bible but you do not love God. You are Zealous for your religious traditions and you condemn other that would choose, instead, to follow Him and Him alone. Keep your religion and your “church,” Keep your “pastor” and your “worship service,” God can work IN SPITE them, but If you want to really know God the only way is to drop your religion, slough off the old ways of doing things and Follow Christ as HE and HE alone leads you and guides you through the DESIRES AND LONGINGS OF YOUR HEART(if you still know how to find it)! That IS the only way, that IS the way that Jesus talks about in the bible, that IS forgetting the former things of this world-the religiousness, tradition, the church organization-and following Him.
Derrick,
I am not condemning anyone. You need to choose your words more wisely. In this article I was talking to people that have the Church approved Canon of scripture available to them. The Canon identifies what writings are inspired and which do not meet the test for many reasons. That is the truth that the Holy Spirit has led Christians into.
All anyone needs to know Christ is to believe God and the account of His Son’s payment for their sins to be saved. Yet, for those with access to the Canon to not take the time to learn the revealed truth in it so they can learn the Lord’s instructions to Holy Spirit born Christians shows a basic disinterest in what God revealed. How can one say they know Jesus if they do not care about what God said, or worse yet deny the words to the Church that He inspired? That is hardly a intimate love relationship. Its like saying to your wife honey I love you but don’t say or show me anything at all about you. I just want to mystically think about what I think you are.
You also show a basic ignorance of the scriptures. The written words of the Apostles were directly inspired by God and they were regarded as inspired by the Church long before the Canon of scripture was ever agreed upon. The letters written were available to the churches. A printing press was not need to read these scriptures. When the Church gathered.and there were disputes the inspired letters were often referred to, to determine the truth. In fact, the accepted Canon actually came about because of disputes on doctrine and to put down heresy in the Church. Now you want to get rid of it so everyone can come up with wind bags full of what Jesus is secretly telling them.
You cannot love if you do not even know what Christian love is. It is not warm fuzzes. Love comes from knowing Christ and learning His will for the Body and how you express it to the Body and the world. It does not come from subjective feelings that are different to each individual. Love is grounded in absolute truthes and that comes from learning and understanding biblical doctrine.
You say the words of God inspired through these Apostles are idolized which just proves you cannot accept scripture as even coming from God. Then one really has to wonder what your own Christianity is based on? My guess is that is based on your feelings but people have different feeling and feelings are never reliable. That is why we know that the only infallible rule to live by is God’s revealed word. You also forget that all the books of the Old Testament were also available to the early Church. Or are you also denying that the Old Testament are the words of God when Jesus clearly said they were?
How do you even know what God requires of you if you never read what God said to you? I know, you think it comes through mystical osmosis!
Salvation does not come from works of any kind it comes from belief-faith-trust in the One that came to take away our sins through His own death and blood sacrifice for our sins but how would you even know that if you did not read the Bible?
You’re also wrong after one is saved God does require works of the Spirit from His people. Your eternal rewards or lack of rewards will be based on those works. However, how will you even know what works are acceptable to God if you do not read his written word? I know, through some subject feelings! How can you even distinguish true subjective feelings from false lies if you are not grounded in the unchangeable word of God? I know by subjective feelings! How you feel kind of makes you God then, don’t it?
How do you even know you have the Holy Spirit and not some other Spirit if you do not know biblical doctrine? Mormons think they have the Holy Spirit by burning feelings but they cannot have the Spirit of God because they deny what God revealed in His infallible word.
Now you are also calling God a liar. God is holy. He has no part in sin. He separated Himself from man and the only bridge back to God is Jesus Christ and the work He did on the Cross for Sin. Adam did not leave the garden because he wanted to go, God kicked him out. The scripture is clear about man’s depravity without being regenerated by Christ. Man is already condemned without Christ but what would you know? You think you do not need God’s inspired doctrine, all you need is your feelings making your feelings the judge of God.
There is only one Jesus. God does not change. Don’t confuse the covenant given to Israel for the dispensation of the Law that was supposed to lead Israel to their Messiah Savior with the New Covenant given to Israel and also granted to the Gentiles by Grace so that all people that believe in the revealed Christ of scripture can be saved by the Law of Faith.
On the contrary to what you said, I live by the New Testament because it is the New Covenant that fulfills the Old and that is why Christians need to know it. It was given to believers so they could live more fruitful lives for God and not be twisted by every new wind of doctrine that comes along. For example, like your views here.
Now you even think you can judge my salvation when you say I know about Him but I do not know Him? You sir are a liar! I both know His word and I know Him, they are inseparable. There is nothing small minded about my belief. It is the same belief that the prophets, Jesus and the apostles passed down. There is no other gospel given which man must be saved. God is certainly bigger than the Bible but the Bible contains everything that is required for a Christian to know for salvation and living the Christian life on earth. Otherwise people like you go by their feelings and everyone just does what is right in their own eyes, making themselves the God of themselves.
You accuse me of, loving the word of God but not loving God. As if you really would know? Tell me how you can reliably know God without knowing what He said? Oh I know your subjective feelings! One thing about feeling through, is that everyone has different feelings and they cannot all be true. In fact, anyone who claims to know God through their own feelings would have to be equal to God.
You think you can know Christ by just knowing Christ but how do you define knowing without even knowing anything? Again through mystical feeling that are not reliable! God’s word is reliable it does not change. God is not found if one has a feelly good day. And God is not lost if you have a feelly bad day. If your feelings crossfire because you did not take your drugs or you got dementia or something, God is not lost. People do not know God through their unreliable subjective feeling they know Him through His revealed word. That never changes.
To follow anyone in this world you have to know what they are revealing. If you are blindly finding anyone you are still blinded about that person. How do you follow Jesus without following what was revealed from Him? The whole Bible is written about Jesus and even Jesus said so.
You are sorely mistaken. I suggest you put away your mysticism and learn about God’s will for your life. It certainly is not about your own feelings.
When I was younger, I believed in Jesus and prayed to Him almost every night saying thank you without really letting anyone know that I did this. But for some reason I never read the Bible. But there were certain things I did not want to do because I just thought it wasn’t “good.” I also had this strangle inkling that God chose me for something but I did not understand why. Now I read the Bible and it is becoming clearer. Perhaps because I believed back then (still do) in Jesus with all my heart, I could hear Him coming through me (without the Bible). Is this possible?..
Nicole,
Anything is possible, but the problem is that feelings are not reliable. Many people think they are communicating with Jesus but then they contradict what God said in His revealed word. Mormons think they communicate with Jesus but with their demonic doctrine they can’t possible know the Jesus the Bible revealed. They have a Jesus made up by their theology and feelings, and many today also just have a Jesus they made up in their own mind.
Oh, my roommate told me not to listen to my feelings. She told me that Jesus isn’t God but I told her I don’t believe that.
Why is it unreliable to listen to feelings? I’m having a hard time discerning between the Holy Spirit and feelings when I’m told not to listen to them. I have a lot to learn from Jesus in the Bible still. I need more revelation I suppose.
Nicole,
It is unreliable to listen to your feelings because your feelings are based on chemical hormones in your brain and they change all the time. Women especially ought to be quite aware of that. However, the word of God is always reliable. The written word is not going to change because you had a bad day.
People all over the world in religion have feelings but their feeling about their religion do not save them or give them God’s truth. They must realize that they are sinners in need of God’s salvation and hear and believe and then make Jesus Christ their Lord. Then after they receive His Holy Spirit if they study His reveled word and listen to gifted teachers given to mature the Chruch they will obtain more and more understanding.
If you want to know the difference between what is coming from the Holy Spirit and what is coming through your feelings, or your brain or other spirits, you need to check out every thought against what God said in His written revealed word. God never contradicts Himself. The more you do that, the more you will be able to discern the voice of God from all the external feelings and thoughts that you have. You really don’t need more revelation, you need to read and study God’s revelation to you because everything you need to know for Christian faith and Christian practice is already written.
Thanks for validating my recent experiences. I was totally blown away tonight after attending a bible based group study. The facilitator was making some statement during a discussion we were having. I raised question on the subject, and referred to scripture. Everyone in the group seemed surprised and offended. I asked the group if anyone here actually reads and studies the bible? Everyone there said “no”. I exlpained , until you do, you will not understand the subject matter. The facilitator interupted me and said, that’s not true, she said people don’t need to read the bible to understand the same way I do. I kindly removed myself from the group…. I can’t attend a “bible group” that pushes the bible out as being the focal point of our understanding….. My point is simply this; I don’t have an esoteric understanding of the bible. It is there for everyone to read and to come to know Christ. To say you don’t need to read and study the bible is like saying” I’ll make creme brulle for the the first time without a recipe!” Just my thoughts, Love in Christ, Mark