Some claiming to be among Christianity would have us think that the universe that God spoke into existence for His own purpose is not really under His control. They have a God that dwells in creation wringing His figurative hands just hoping that someone will love Him and be His friend. Aww…poor God!
Although many “Christians” may deny that they see God in the above terms, their theology and what they say about God indicates otherwise. I will give a few examples but it certainly will not be all-inclusive because this anemic concept of God is exceedingly widespread and is subtly interwoven in “Christian” concepts about their Creator.
Let me start with the overwhelming majority in Christendom that believe what good or bad that they do in this life determines if they go to Heaven or Hell. In this view, each individual becomes the god of their own destiny. They think God does not determine who He will save, our own actions will.
The majority seem to believe that God has this scale and if your good outweighs your bad you will be allowed through the pearly gates. But if the scale tips the other way, you will go to their concept of hell. Most of the books written from people claiming to have gone to heaven or hell reinforce this view.
Those with this view of God think that when we reach the age of accountability we are given ten commandments to live by and that is how God and everyone else keeps track of how we are doing. The head of the denomination becomes the infallible chief justice of the supreme court and he defines the finer points of the church Constitution and then directs his referees called Clergy to be the black clothed Umpires… or is it Impires.
Line markers are put down to keep you from going out-of-bounds, repentance and penance boxes are set up that give you a chance to get some of those heavy sins removed off of the bad end of the scale and ways to earn extra weights for the good side are defined. If you think I am exaggerating look into Roman Catholic doctrine and Christian cults.
Obviously, with these, keeping the rules as defined by the church and what you do in life determines your salvation. God really has nothing to do with it. He is just a fan somewhere out in the bleachers rooting that you make the varsity team through your own efforts and by playing by your church rules.
There is also another large segment within Christendom that correctly believes that man is saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, however, they think that game is not hard enough so they add man-made rules to exclude those that do not fit the standards that they set up. They add that what you do after you have been saved actually determines if you actually will get saved or not. These people like to rail against once saved always saved doctrine. What they fail to see is that if you lost your salvation Jesus could not have been your Savior in the first place. Can any almighty Savior lose those that He came to save? Anyone see the oxymoron here? Aww…poor God! He cannot even keep those He came to save!
Once again, with this belief, it is you that determines your salvation. You have to stay saved through your own good efforts. Christian leaders tell us God can’t keep His eyes off of you. So, He must be in heaven biting his figurative finger nails watching you, just hoping that you keep yourself confessed up so that He can have the pleasure of your good company in heaven.
This theology makes you God of your own eternal destiny. It also is not a fair salvation system, because until you walked ten thousand miles in the shoes of everyone else carrying the baggage that the world system saddles them with, how can you claim that your walk of sanctification meets the requirement of salvation but the walk of others does not? They might have entered the initial sanctification walk carrying ten times more worldly baggage then you did when you confessed Jesus. You may have only had to walk a short time in the Son light to get purified enough to presume to call yourself “holy“, but others maybe not quite as presumptuous as you, know they will never get holy through their own efforts.
And if staying confessed up and holy is the key to salvation wouldn’t we all be better off if we just died the moment after conversion or right after the last time that you confessed up your sins and repented of them? If staying out of sin is the great hope for your salvation, then you might want to play golf in an electrical storm as long as you confessed up before you tee off on someone.
The truth is that the sanctification process is not the same for all, and we do not even determine how the Holy Spirit achieves it. Yet, we want to compare ourselves with others and then use ourselves as the measure of who is saved and who is still lost by works that happen to please us. If you could really judge all the good and evil that people do, you would be God.
You see where this leads? It is saying that defective fallen human brains can judge who God saves.The Bible says that God is sovereign. He saves those He chooses to save and nobody can take them from Him. That person might not meet your standards but salvation is not based on your standards. Our salvation really has nothing to do with anything that we do other than receiving God as our Savior.
God will no more deny the children that He chose to create and save from before the foundations of the world then you would deny your own children. If God is dependent on what we do, then He is not God at all. The Bible says that God knows everything. God knows the end from the beginning? Then why would God let those that He created for salvation to be lost to His adversary? That logically makes no sense.
There are also the postmodern New Evangelicals heretics claiming Open Theism. They claim the future has not yet been determined even for God. God can only guess the future because He does not know the choices that people will make. In many of their eyes, God is evolving along with His whole creation.
No wonder most of these heretics believe in evolution. They will not deny that God exists, but they will make Him the prisoner of His own creation. There is a being that wants to act like the Creator but is subjected to the limits of creation. That dude is the Devil! That is the real god of Open Theism. The Bible teaches that God transcends His Creation. He Knows everything and is fully in control of everything. He is sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. He not only knows the future, He determines it. Everything within God’s creation works toward fulfilling His plan for creation.
Open Theists love their delusion because it helps them rationalize God using their own very limited minds. This is not as small a movement as you might think. Open Theism has infected the minds of many of the postmodern New Evangelicals. These people then take the view that man can determine his eternal ultimate fate through human collective choices because creation is evolving and what it will become in the future is not determined. Those that believe that everything is evolving have no reason to believe that man cannot someday evolve to become like God. Man’s belief in evolution is just fallen humanity acting out the big lie from the Devil since Eden.
That is why these same leaders want to integrate Protestantism, Catholicism, Mormonism, Muslims, and other pagan religions. The concept of a one world religion is built upon the conjecture that we all are evolving spiritual beings and poor God, at best, is just leading the way. Mankind can catch up by evolving into the collective divine consciousness that some call Christ consciousness.
The garbage in some of the most popular books in Christianity are influenced by these heretical concepts. They suggest that you are an evolving powerful spiritual being that God can’t keep His eyes off of. However, the truth is that unless God saves you from your fallen human nature, by trusting in the Savior that God sent, you will never evolve into anything more than the dirt you are.
One of the great deceptions in Christendom is being presented in a book called “The Shack” and it is now going to hit the movie screens. The Shack will be another Satanic move that will be passing itself off as a Christian movie. Nothing Godly should be expected to come out of the viper den of Hollywood.
Christiandumb bought into The Shack big time. However, the story is a lie out of the pit of hell and the people who help bring about the movie are trying to reach even more people with this damnable heresy. The book promotes universalism and a blasphemous concept of God. The Holy Spirit is represented by a black woman. Guess who will play the Holy Spirit in this Movie? Poor God… it is Oprah Winfrey! This Woman has done more to lead people to believe New Age/New Spiritualism demonic pagan lies than any woman in the history of the world. What is left for this woman who sold her soul, but to play a counterfeit Holy Spirit and lead everyone that rejects the truth to the common damnation that she fosters through her pagan beliefs and the satanic people that she promotes?
God is not in Heaven wringing His hands saying woe is me hoping that someone will come to love Him. That sad sack God that is obsessed with the actions of men is not the God of the Bible. God does not need man. Man needs God. Our God is not working through time and chance evolving it toward some hopeful outcome. He has determined the outcome before He created the world. Don’t apologize for God like He has been missing the mark. It is those corrupted by Satan that are missing the mark.
Jesus did not come to beg people to love Him. He came to show us the love of God by saving mankind from their sins by taking our own sins upon Himself so that we may be saved. Those the Father gives Jesus will believe. Those that reject Him are condemned already. Those true Christians that were washed by the blood of Christ for all sins, past, present, and future do not have to worry about losing their salvation. God knows how to keep those that are His.
Some want to make God a human concept of love but love is Jesus coming in power to destroy the works of the Devil and all that follow after him. Fear this God of love, because Love will not tolerate the Devil or any evil causing sorrow in His creation much longer. God is love but most do not know that true love will bring about the demise of this evil world system and everyone that loves it.
If you trust in Jesus, do not let legalistic people put you down because you are not dancing to their tune. God is not saying woe is me because you did not do something or lead someone to Christ. He will draw those He predestined to Christ. Nobody is going to hell because of something that you did or did not do. God is not dependent on our actions. You may lose a reward you might of had and another may receive it, but don’t buy into the nonsense that salvation depends upon your performance.
We are told to proclaim the gospel so those that hear and believe will be saved. We do not do the saving and our actions do not save or condemn anyone. Don’t ever let anyone put that guilt trip on you. Such nonsense is not from God. Use the spiritual gifts that God gave you and you will receive a reward beyond salvation. Salvation is assured for the believer that believes in what Jesus did with His death and resurrection for their sins. Don’t let some legalistic self-righteous dolt tell you differently.
If you have no assurance of your salvation. Find out if you’re saved by what is said in the New Testament about Jesus and salvation. The New Testament clearly defines how people are saved. You can believe what God said in the Bible, or you can believe postmodern “Christian leaders” and demonic spiritualists like Oprah that think the Bible is defective, incomplete, or just one of many truths, so they should define God for those less enlightened in the world. These pushing such lies are created for their purpose driven life to convey their Secret to the fellow travelers of Satan.
So Don,
You don’t think that God Almighty is pacing back and forth on the heavenly plain not knowing what the heck to do with us ?…You don’t think He feels impotent and at a loss because humanity has created the internet, Quantum Computing, and even are on the brink of cloning ?
Don’t you think God Almighty is still trying to figure out what to do about Henry Ford’s invention of the automobile ?
Neither do I.
Every era of humanity has arrogantly thought to have God figured out and thought they were so enlightened and “evolved”…when, in fact, we have only shown through History how little we know and how feeble humanity is.
And evolving ?..are we serious ?…if anything, looking at the big picture, I think it would be valid to say that humanity has de-evolved…into an immoral, sick, murderous species.
I think those that would put more credence in someone like Oprah, rather than The Lord God Almighty and His Word show just how inept we are as a human species.
~David,
The left H O O K (Holder, Obama, Oprah, Kerry) have led Americans to the new age of de-enlightenment.
Don,
Not to go off topic or try and sound like I understand God, as I believe He is so far beyond us there is no way we can comprehend Him. One thought I did have, however, was that how God even experiences our existence is completely different than how we experience it.
I wonder (and assume) that God does not even experience time in a linear fashion, as we do. I believe He knows the beginning from the end, but for Him the beginning and end of “time” is simply like seeing the edges of a picture. He sees everything all in front of Him, all times, all events, everything. He is not wondering what happens or hoping for any specific event. He is not even waiting for a specific event since for Him it is all laid out before Him. He is outside of time and sees it all. Kind of cool to try and comprehend but, for a human, it is like comprehending infinity, we just can’t wrap our minds around it.
He is an awesome God.
Spot on, Don. I have to agree with everything you said here. “The Shack” with Oprah???? Hope it’s not by the same people who produced “Noah”. I never read that book and so far have not felt the least inclined to do so.
Heating up there in the Ozarks? We were out to our place this spring and missed the heat and most of the ticks, but not that green vine from hell! Stay out of the woods.
Doug
Don
Simple yet O so profound. I just pray that those who are concerned regarding the insidious wrongs that are taking over their lives might be drawn to this blog. These ungodly ‘beliefs’ are an insult to God and I trust they will see and repent their part in that insult.
Hi,
1 Corinthians 13 changed my life forever, just about 30 years ago.
As I work with the lost, and I make overtures of the Holy Spirit and inroads into witnessing to those the Lord puts in my path, and they push back or push me away or other bad behavior, it just seems to break my heart.
I don’t know why, but as of late, I ask The Father to fill my heart with all the love He can pour through me. The past winter I was in a long “funk” and it seems that, still, I have yet to give up on praising His Son Jesus with all the love I can muster in my heart.
Keep up the good work, Don.
In appreciation.
1., I am ever grateful that my salvation is not based on my behavior because neither I nor anyone could ever tow THAT straight of a line for any length of time; 2., I love how The Lord made salvation so completely simple that a child could choose it but that same simplicity can so profoundly baffle the “Intelligence and Reason” of man to seek some circus trick to grease himself into a concept of Heaven; 3., it must constantly break The Lords heart to see so many of His creation not choose the salvation He laid out for us even though He knows in advance what choice we all will make, and for the fact that He gave us a choice to accept or not accept Him. Nevertheless, He is not surprised; He knows EXACTLY how many of us will accept His gift. I only hope and pray that the last person to accept The Lord will accept Him soon…I really want to go home.
Don,
How are the beliefs of Catholicism different from the old testament salvation requirements?
Jim
That is a long story. However, keep in mind that salvation in all times periods was by grace through faith in God and not by works.
Hi Don
That was a great article. Very timely too,as I have been reading along those lines this past week.Not only that,but what I tried to post last week was about how thur legalist like to add all the do’s and don’ts to their definition of holiness. Holiness is being set apart to Gods purposes for your life and not the churches programs. Too many are playing church,and thud are hypocritical actors. They have made themselves judge,jury,and executioners when decideing who is saved or not. You hit the nail on the head about sanctification and how it is different for each individual.
I recently wrote to lighthousetrails abou a couple schools that I thought may have not gone into spiritual formation,and found out rather quickly that they were indeed already teaching this heresy. I was shocked thhat the fundamentalist Baptist,being staunch separatist,have fallen in with the rest so soon. But in light of the fact that those with a pietistic attitude usually end up being legalist or liberalist are the ones who are elitist as well. They are the ones to tell us “dumb sheeple” how we are to live this life. Those who love the Lord hear his voice and follow. And he has already told us in his Word how to do that. Those who do not belong to Him,can not understand his Word,for it is foolishness to them. These days,they have pulled out all the stops,and every heresy is being incorporated and practiced. The end result,is they worship the creature and creation and Not our God,Lord And Saviour,Jesus Christ.
Being a watchman on the wall is a thankless job,and opens oneself up to all kinds of attacks and ridicule. But Don is right, this is how God shows his love for man. Warning him he is in danger of eternal damnation,and that He (God) has provided salvation for those who repent and believe the Gospel.
AMEN!!!!
Faith
Don,
I was attending a church about a year ago, but left. At first I thought it might be a good bible believing church the members were nice and friendly so I decided to stay on for a while. After a while I became good friends with some of the believers there and became comfortable and decided to give that church a chance. But the longer I attended the more doctrinal error I started to see and so I questioned in my heart their believe system. There are legalistic rules that church members had to adhere to that I was not made aware of but found out by others in the church later on. I guess the point I’m trying to make is that they teach Grace through Faith but then turn around and say you have to repent of your sins before you can be saved, and you have to do these certain things and keep doing them to stay saved that’s the impression l got because if you didn’t do them the church elders would discipline the members. I realize know that they teach Lordship Salvation. They want to make Jesus Christ their Lord, before making him their Savior first how is that even possible? Anyway I use to be a legalist because I didnt any better, but now I do know, and I refuse to put myself under legalist bandage ever again. Praise God he has set me free!
This article brings me much peace of mind. Sometimes I forget that God does the saving and it is not dependent upon my weak efforts and performance in pointing others to Jesus. I do pray that I will be a person through whom God uses to share the great news of the saving work of Jesus in our behalf…and then be content to leave the results to Him. I still believe God grants able minded people the freedom to believe in Jesus and receive His sacrifice or to reject it. I don’t believe God created anyone for damnation, but sadly the unbelieving and the rejector of God’s offer for rescue will be separated from His loving care and forever regretful in Hell. What are your thoughts about praying to the All-knowing, All-controlling God for the salvation of people? Is it a wasted prayer since God chooses who is and is not saved?
Ruby,
What many do not understand is that hearing the good news that Jesus paid the price for sin at the Cross, believing it, and trusting is the risen Lord’s righteousness to save us from our sins is the biblical definition of repentance.
Those that repent acknowledge they need a Savior because their life and works will never meet God’s standards for fellowship with a Holy God. We need the salvation that the Lord freely offers to ever be saved. The way these people use the word repent is their main problem.
If Jesus is not our Lord and Savior, we have no lord or Savior at all. It is not a two step process. Jesus is both Lord and Savior to all that are in the body of Christ.
Kris,
let me ask you this? Do a word study on the word “pray” or “prayer” and show me one example in the NT where any believer in the Church prayed for the salvation of any unsaved Individual?
Jesus prayed for those given to Him and those that come to believe in Him, but I see no prayers for the unsaved.
People can pray for what they want, but only those requests within God’s will can be granted. If our prayers gets people saved haven’t we become like God? That is not saying that we should not pray for people because we are told to pray for leaders, brethren, to open doors for the gospel, etc. However salvation always comings from hearing and believing the word of God.
I could be wrong and I hope someone will correct me with scripture if I am. But, I don’t see in scripture where we are to pray for unbelievers to believe.
Don,
I acknowledge that Jesus is my Lord and Savior and I’m very great full to Him and give Him all glory and honor. You are correct it’s not a two step process. It just makes me sad that so many people are being deceived.:-(
Amen!
I took your challenge to explore what God says in His Word concerning praying for the lost and two scripture references shouted that we SHOULD pray for the unsaved to come to repentance and belief in the Lord Jesus Christ and acceptance of His sacrifice for the forgiveness of their sins. The first is 1 Timothy 2:1-4 where the Holy Spirit inspires Paul to write “Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” The second scripture is also given as inspiration by the Holy Spirit to Paul, who writes in Romans 10:1 “Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them (Israel) is that they may be saved.” I know ultimately God chooses, but there is still the parallel reality that He does not create robots who only love Him because He forces them to. People have been granted by God the freedom to choose. And with that being said…we could never choose Him unless He allowed us to hear the saving gospel and recognize our utter depravity and dependence upon Him for rescue. I am burdened for lost souls. I feel compelled to prayer to God in their behalf that He would awaken them to their need of Him. God will do as He wills…as you previously said. Thank you for your posts.
Kris,
Nice try, and thanks for your effort to search the scriptures, but neither case is talking about believers praying for individuals to be saved. Naturally God, Paul, and all Christians wish all people would come to the Truth and be saved, but praying for individuals probably has no direct influence on who believes, other than praying opens doors for the great commission to be carried out by the Church so the gospel can be heard.
I really was talking about something in scripture that suggests that our prayers influences God to get other individuals to believe.
Hi Don,
Fabulous post 🙂 I was laughing and nodding my head at the same time at so much of what you wrote!
As to believers in the church praying for individuals to be saved – I’ve always leaned on two scriptures to back that up:
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 NKJV
and
14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him. 1 John 5:14-15 NKJV
What you said above, though, has really got me thinking and I hope I am not using these scriptures out of context (I don’t think I am).
Again, great post, thanks, Don.
Hi Rose,
Thanks for the response. I do not see where the first scripture you quoted is saying that our prayers get people to believe and be saved. It is saying that the Lord will be delaying His coming until all those given to Him come in.
If the second scripture you quote could be applied that way, why don’t we just pray that all will get saved and all will? Answer: It is not in God’s will that the free will of others be taken away by our own requests.
I am so encouraged by the truth I received from this website. It is so refreshing to hear from others who are seeking truth. Thank you Don for your spiritual discernment and boldness. It’s a shame that there is not many in the pulpit who truly study the Word and teach it’s truths. In regards to praying for unbelievers one only has to read John 17. When Jesus prayed to His Father, he only prayed for those who the Father had given him and for those who in the future would believe on him. In verse 9, he states he is not praying for the world but only for those the Father had given him. The only time we could possibly construe Jesus praying for the world is in verse 21 and 23, that the world would believe that God had sent Jesus based on the oneness of believers to the Father and Jesus. Since I don’t know who will receive the truth, I just reveal the truth to those I come in contact and let God do the rest. It’s not my job to sell Jesus but to preach the Good News and disciple those who believe. Thanks again for your dedication to teaching the truth and know that there are many out there, like myself, that are being fed by your wisdom. God Bless.
Don, thanks for your article; clears a lot up for me; as I am always praying for the unsaved and my family. When the Bible says that the families of Christians are “Sanctified” or set apart to be saved. You thoughts on this?
After reading part of your post “That is why these same leaders want to integrate Protestantism, Catholicism, Mormonism, Muslims, and other pagan religions.” I just read an aticle on the Christian Post this morning……
Joel Olsteen, Senator Mike Lee(a Morman) and other Christian leaders are visiting the Vatican Thursday. “Deseret News, the meeting with Pope Francis on Thursday was “part of a multiday, unofficial visit to Italy to promote ecumenical prayer and interfaith understanding.”
In addition to Sen. Lee’s and Osteen’s presence, the publication reports that others in attendance included Tim Timmons, a pastor and author based in Newport Beach, Calif., and Gayle D. Beebe, president of Westmont College in Santa Barbara, Calif.
The Fellowship, or The International Foundation, reportedly organized the trip. The Fellowship is led by evangelical Christian minister Douglas Coe, who was noted by the Vatican Information Services as one of many guests received by Pope Francis on Thursday, cited simply as: “Doug Coe of the National Prayer Breakfast, U.S.A., and entourage.” The Fellowship is the main organizer behind the annual National Prayer Breakfast held in Washington, D.C.”
Also the pope today: “For the first time in history, Islamic prayers and readings from the Quran will be heard at the Vatican on Sunday, in a move by Pope Francis to usher in peace between Israelis and Palestinians.
Francis issued the invitation to Israeli President Shimon Peres and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas during his visit last week to Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian Authority.”
Finally, I am getting shock proof. And I am reading about so many things about the late great Southern Baptist compromises.
Hey Don,
Brilliant piece. And, I suspect, on an individual level, many form an opinion of God based upon their own paternal experiences…Like the God waiting with the big club for every screw up. The aloof, distant God. The “you’ll never measure up” God, or the jolly, anything-goes God.
I think the late Dr. M.R. DeHaan put it best when he said, “God loves us so much He can’t keep His eyes off us.”
Hi AnnS
I think you are referring to the passage “the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband. Else your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.”
Let me quote John MacArthur on this passage from his commentary. I think he has it correct.
You see MacArther’s interpretation goes far short of saying that the families of a believer are set apart to be saved. I do not think we are wise to build dogmatic doctrine on such passages.
I am quite aware of all that you said from the news. There goes what might have been a good part of my June monthly perspectives newsletter! 😥
Hi Tom,
I would agree that God will not take His eyes off those given to Jesus to be saved. The problem with Rich Warren and others that use this quote is that they are applying it to everyone.
Hi Don,
I had to smile and chuckle a little at your statement to Ann about losing something to write about this month. There is no lack of outrageous things to write about these days. Unless of course you had already wrote some on those things she mentioned. I was going to make a few suggestions,but thought better of doing so,I might finish off your list :-X Looking forward to your next installment.
Blessings
Refreshing, freeing and right on, Don. Christ really came to set us free, but how quickly “christendumb” is willing to become enslaved again due to most people’s biblical illiteracy.
The “Shack” should be called “shackled.” And Oprah is a present day Jezebel. I am so weary of this world….Maranatha.
Hi Don,
I was very surprised when the SBC church I used to attend, suggested our reading book club should read “The Shack”. Previously I knew from what I had read on the reviews at Amazon there’s no way I would ever be interested in reading that book.
I did some research on the Internet, at that time, and could only find one pastor speaking against it. Even the pastor’s wife of the Southern Baptist church I was attending, had it up on her Facebook page as that being one of her favorite books! ( Along with desperate housewives being one of her favorite shows ,need I say more).
As to the recent news of Joel Osteen etc. visiting the Vatican, please do write the next news letter about it! There is a lot to digest as to the great falling away that we are beginning to see?
What I can’t understand is how Rick Warren who I have heard give a salvation message could also at the same time say the Catholic channel on cable TV is his favorite channel? I am sure somebody as well read as he is, knows the history and the apostasy of the Catholic Church. I just don’t get it. Does he just want Catholics to buy his books? Does he want more recognition? I just don’t understand how you can preach salvation by faith and then hug the pope.
Don,
Thanks once again for a great article! This work comes from much study and determination to declare the great truths of God. It is amazing how little so many know about the bible anymore especially in the “church”. I think it is because everyone is so busy and refusing to take the time necessary to come before God in the power of the Holy Spirit to learn these rich truths. As far as “The Shack” is concerned–I get livid whenever I see that reference. Years ago I joined a bible study in my fellowship with a lady leading who almost insisted we all read this nonsense. I told her I wouldn’t read anything unless it enhanced my studies of the bible. She told me all about the book and I decided then I wouldn’t read it. I have since found out it was written by a Universalist and saw on David Reagan “Lamb and Lion” the truth of this book. I can’t believe it is still in existence. And now a movie! As Paul says over and over, “May it never be!”. End of story–the lady is now with the Lord as she died a few years after pushing the book. Rest of the story–I now lead the bible study and we are sticking to the bible and presently studying the book of Romans. Also, my dear pastor is 86 years old and I agree with his teaching 90% of the time but he says if we pray for people God will save them. I like your response that says it is not in God’s will that the free will of others be taken over by our own requests. He also says he has a great burden for souls but I think he places that burden on himself. I know Jesus Christ is my burden bearer and I trust Him fully for my salvation and know His Ways are far above mine. May He come soon!
Powerful message. Wow. This is why it’s unprofitable to try and figure out the “real” Christians versus the “tares”. How arrogant of us to think we understand how the Spirit chooses to operate in the lives of fellow believers.
Just keep hold of the simplicity which is found in Christ Jesus and abide in him, the TRUE VINE. John 15.
Re:Barbara and Kate (June 9)
I see the SBC is opening its arms to the WOF proponents. I doubt it will be long before Lifeway will have a new book on their shelves by Osteen and Moore titled “The Purpose Driven Shack.”
Hi Bob,
Seems fitting.
We also should be aware that leaders in the SBC and the WOF among others are now also kissing the Pope’s ring. Maybe after the ecumenical Shack remodeling project is completed there will be a Purpose Driven Whore House sitting on seven hills in Rome that many religious leaders will flock to, to get their universalism tweaked.
Hey Bob,from Texas,
Is there a specific article about SBC & WOF people having some kind of get together? Or are you talking about Rick Warren and his ecumenical dealings.
Is there a website you have been reading about the two groups? Just curious.
David LaVeque:
I have an article here by Brannon Howse and some very distubing info on a SBC’s commission headed by Richard Land. Covers his associations and endorsing highly questionable groups in society with some dark connections such as Islam and Marxist influence. Just a few excerpts hope Don doesn’t mind: This was posted in 2010
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-times/article.php?articleid=6551
MARXISTS, MUSLIMS, MORMONS, GLOBALISTS, AND RICHARD LAND OF THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION
“First, Jim Wallis has had relationships with the communist Committee in Solidarity with the People of El Salvador (CISPES).
Second, his “Witness for Peace” was an attempt to defend the Nicaraguan Sandinistas! Wallis, together with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright (Obama’s former pastor of 20 years) “rallied support for the communist Nicaraguan regime and protested actions by the United States which supported the anti-communist Contra rebels” (Family World News, February 2009, p. 7).
Third, Wallis and his Sojourners community of fellow-travelers believe Fidel Castro’s Cuba, Hugo Chavez’s Venezuela, Daniel Ortega’s Nicaragua, and the other revolutionary forces “restructuring socialist societies” are the Communist paradises the United States needs to emulate in order to establish “social justice.” Writing in the November 1983 issue of Sojourners, Jacob Laksin notes, “Jim Wallis and Jim Rice drafted what would become the charter of leftist activists committed to the proliferation of Communist revolutions in Central America” (Laksin, “Sojourners: History, Activities and Agendas” in Discoverthenetworks.org., 2005).”
AnnS and David L,
And I hear the favorite for being elected the new leader of the SBC has everyone doing the Harlem Shake in his mega church worship services and has other postmodern conforming to the world concepts.
I will be away from the computer for a number of hours, so for awhile no new comments will be posted.
Thanks Ann, & Don,
Lots of reading to do. Don,when you get back,let us know,I will look into that new prospective SBC Leadership issue.Almost too much crazy stuff these days,to keep up.
Would that be Ronnie Floyd? I had seen that before I commented (h/t The Christian Post)but wasn’t sure if Land was still going to be on some commission.
BTW: The CP sure has a bunch of cafeteria style “Christian” articles, but I like checking the comments to find out how many are getting brainwashed and not.
Hi all,
I think I found what Bob was talking about. The new president elect,SBC, Roni Floyd,is a big advocate for Robert Morris of Gateway church,home church of Daystar founder Marcus Lamb. Word of faith all the way. Morris teaches that if you don’t give the first 10% to God,you will be cursed,and even possessed by demonic spirit’s. Morris wrote a book that Floyd was pushing from the pulpit.Also read an article by a protege about his desire for other’s spiritual awakening.Naturally he is a Mega-church pastor,has Mohler’s blessing,and no doubt a friend of Rick Warren’s,who spoke at the election /convention. The breakneck speed all these groups are coming together is jaw dropping. What I have a hard time conceiving is that anyone who knows God’s word can remain in these churches,I mean,I know that people can hope to make changes Freon within a group and other reasons,but to me,it just seems like compromise. But,like myself,it took time for me to learn the truth from bible study,and lots of other reading. I’m talking about those who SHOULD know better. Are there that few of believers these days? Or are the majority afraid to speak out? Or likely both. Don,who was it you were referring to in Brooklyn NY? was it Jim Cymbala of the Brooklyn tabernacle,because they are in Harlem actually,and independent baptist,not SBC I believe. Hope I have not stepped on another part of your upcoming monthly review 😀
Re: Question of David L. (6/10)
David, No official “get together” as yet. Beth Moore received her start at Houston’s First Baptist Church and just recently moved on after joining with James and Gloria Robison. Most Baptists were silent as BM joined Word of Faith Pastorix Christine Caine for a well publicized visit to Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church (also in Houston).
Yes, then there is Rick Warren.
There is other observable movement by the SBC to “join in unity” with WOF adherents,
AnnS,
Floyd is the one that will probably be the new President of the SBC.
David L.
That is what I have heard also about Floyd.
I was not referring to anyone in Brooklyn NY. I heard the Harlem Shake suggestive dance craze also took place at Floyd’s church
Thanks Don,Ann,& Bob,
Don,the dance thing is first I have heard. I do know that Pentecostals have been getting into stuff like that during services,using King David as an example.Do you have anything further on that?
David L,
Here is one source.
http://pulpitandpen.org/2014/05/26/floyds-cross-church-does-the-harlem-shake/
Don,
Good Grief! You were serious. I read the longer story from Christian news wire I think, the link was in article you referenced. What’s worse,this is going on at all kinds of schools and churches,and being defended no less.
The rest of the craziness should not be far behind. Liberty U,and Cedarville U have their own videos as well as half a dozen other church groups. Oh, and Saddleback beat them there. Just more evidence for your article.
I nearly fell off my Sunday School chair this morning. The regular pastor of the SBC is on vacation so there was a guest pastor. He came to our SS class which I thought was great because I’ve never seen a pastor in SS before. However, he made several comments that started my red flags waving so I just ask him directly, “Are you saying you believe we can lose our salvation?” He said, “Yes, I’ve never found anything in the bible that teaches once saved always saved.”
I’m still wondering who contacted him and invited him to preach in a OSAS believing church. I’m still in ‘stun mode.’