It is very naive and shortsighted to think that you will escape the type of troubles that have been common to all that lived in the history of the world just because your a Christian living in America. Americans tend to think that the future in America will continue much the same as they have experienced it over their short lives. They tend to think that no great troubles will impact their own generation. Nothing could be further from the truth.
There is nothing new under the sun, events on earth run in cycles. There is a time for everything. Americans just went through a time of relative peace and prosperity at home and now, very likely, we will go through a time of war, civil strife and economic hard times. There has not been widespread great distress for quite some time for most people in the United States so we in America tend to have this false notion that hard times, conflicts and strife only impacts those that live in other nations.
Nevertheless, all world powers rise and fall. When kingdoms fall they fall by wars, civil and economic strife, pestilences and such. Christians in this nation have bought into the falsehood that their own security can be guaranteed by just changing the make up of their government. Many Christians now even think that they can change our secular nation to be more Christian by supporting professional politicians who are often themselves deceived by cults and heretics.
After uniting with Catholics and a New Age Mormon the latest move of too many Evangelicals is to hitch there wagon to hand picked politicians and Dominion Theology heretics. When the American Family Association (AFA) joins with New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) Dominion Theology heretics to promote a globalist politician’s call to prayer we see serious discernment issues. When Evangelicals think lip service to God by a politician and the claims of presumptuous and heretical NAR leaders provides answers for our nations ills, they are deceived.
The Christian commission is to give the gospel to the lost of the world. We are not commissioned to take the world for Christ and to force Christianity on those that reject it. Christians are not going to restore the world to some kind of presumptions redemption and thus prevent the downward spiral into self destruction that God has already told us will happen. Yet, many Evangelicals have joined with nominal Christian politicians, heretics, false prophets and cult leaders to try to engineer a Christian social agenda in America and the world.
There will be no American restoration coming through these means. Even if the Americans do elect such people they will not solve our problems. In fact, doing so after first allowing this permissive society free reign will bring riots and martial law. The Liberal ruling and dependent class make it abundantly clear what they think of Conservatives. Anyone thinking that the Liberals will not resort to violence to get their way is out of touch with world history. The enemies of America are already in America and they like to call themselves “progressive” Americans. Some of these “progressive” people are so radical that they have no problem calling American conservatives, terrorists or racists because name calling and lies are just a means to an end with those that embrace the lies of Marxism.
These rebels in America are Spock kids or they are the offspring of Spock kids that were brought up without parental discipline. Many have done little that is constructive in their lives. Take away the social programs that they depend on for their support and you can be sure that they will burn the American cities just to get their own way. Once the riots start, we will be under martial law and the government will forbid any speech that might upset the riotous and often demonically controlled mob Left. Therefore, restrictions on giving the gospel is just as likely, or even more likely, to come from the Right as a reaction to try to appease the Left.
American Christians not only have their priorities mixed up, they do not even understand why they dwell on this fallen planet. This country and the world is not our home and we are not going to fix the world. Our job is to give people with ears to hear the gospel message so they can be saved out of it. Christians in this country are so naive. They think that things will go on as they have, just because they live in America. Or else they think that they will just fly away in the Rapture and escape it all before any persecution or material or physical harm comes their way. Where is that in the Bible?
I have news for those counting on a quick escape, just because they are Americans. Things are going to get much much worse in this country in this decade and that is very likely going to take place before any end of the age Rapture. We do not know when the Rapture will happen but I do know that the timing of the Rapture is not dependent on America. The Rapture will not come until the restrainer is taken out of the way. This is not contingent on the prosperity or even the survival of America. Many pre-trib Christians seem to think the Rapture revolves around the Church in America.
The Rapture did not happen before the black death in Europe, it did not happen before the great civil war in the United States, it did not happen before the world wars, and it is not likely to happen just because America goes into decline. The truth is that life in America is going to get much more difficult. If we are not destroyed as a nation, it will only be because of God’s long-suffering and mercy. This nation has no reason to continue to be specially blessed by God. The people here in general have rejected God. Don’t think that God is not aware that Christians in America would become more mature and useable if they lived under conditions that where not so physically comfortable and secure.
The bottom line is that I think many bad things are going to happen in the next decade in America. If your measurement of success as a Christian is preserving your wealth and luxuries you may find that they will be taken out of the equation for you.
So knowing that all the striving of man is vanity how should Christians live?
Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
Lu 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Ec 2:24 There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour. This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God.
Mr 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
In other words, enjoy the good things that you worked for on earth, love God and thank God for your life and salvation, help others with their needs, and tell people about the free gift of salvation offered by Jesus.
Don ,
AMEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don, sadly your assessment of America is spot on.
Happily your assessment of Christ is equally correct.
So Don, is AMEM!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amen!!!!!!!!!!! or where you saying something else?
Ken, good to see you again!
Ahh Don, I’ve always got one eye on you 😛
Good to hear Ken. What do you do with the other eye?
My wife says I have to keep it on her:)
Don ,
I meant Amen!!!!!!!!, I am a lousy typist. I agree with Ken , you hit the target.
Ken , did you ever find employment , hoping you did.
Regarding the timing of the rapture;immenancy for sure, but my understanding is that the rapture is not dependant upon an event specific occurance rather it is depentant upon a numbers specific event. “Fo I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel UNTIL the fulness (complete number) of the Gentiles has come in;” Rom. 11:25
Our job is to declare the gospel and until that last one is saved (number known only to the Father) we wait in hope, with contentment. Is that a selfish motive for evangelism?
Ammi, I have heard that and cannot say from the the passage if it is actually talking about a specific number before the rapture.
Let me explain. Certainly the fullness of the Gentiles has to come in before the hardening of Israel is taken away. But Grace to Israel to receive the New Covenant Christ does not even happen until near the end of the tribulation just before the Marriage and Armageddon. So what I am saying is that there could be Gentles still coming in through their death for Jesus after the Rapture.
It all gets down to how one look at the NT Church Age. Does it really end at the Rapture or does it end at the Marriage? Most dispensationalists would say the Rapture. I am not that certain.
I understand your point. I guess I’m a dispensationist who thinks the church is complete at the rapture. I believe that the distingishing mark of the church is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. You mentioned above about the H.S. being taken away or removed, many equate the rapture of the church as being that same event. I’m not sure myself if that is a correct interpretation. We’ll see, I guess. My understanding of salvation during the Tribulation is that people will be saved by the preaching of the word, through faith, evidenced by how they treat Christ’s brethren, the Jews, and the H.S. will be working like he did before Pentecost. In other words, only the church is indwelt, raptured, married and not destined for wrath. I’d call all others, friends of the bridegroom. That’s just where I am in my understanding.
It is difficult to imagine what is coming to America because we have had such blessings and freedom. He is shaking everthing. If judgement begins in the house of God, then we better be alert.
Thank you for the time you take to post your informative and thought provoking blogs. God bless you and yours.
Seems to me that all the fallen world empires thought as Americans typically think today, like Babylon with its impenetrable walls and totally fortified city.
It reminds me of Jeremiah (like you who’s saying all these things in your articles), and the majority in Judah, they didn’t want to hear the need for repentance and they continued on in their ways, until the decimation struck.
In this article, you stated where we, as a Nation, have been, where we are now, and the reality of the future based on prophetic world events, NOT American Christian, utopian, idealism. Great article.
In general, what we have in America is *not* the abundant life of which Jesus speaks, rather a life of (relative) material comfort. It will likely take hardships for us (as His Church in America) to come to appreciate that the “abundant life” comprises chiefly of a close, familial, dependent relationship with our God.
Our eyes have become fixed on the things of this world, both the good and bad things, and our view of prosperity is warped expect that God’s blessings to us be manifested in material blessings, and His disapproval to be expressed in the withholding of these things.
Our true prosperity is in God Himself; He is the treasure of Heaven, not the things He can give us. God knows we have physical needs, but our spiritual and soulful needs are far greater and more lasting.
He is calling us back to loving Him first, not because He is an egomanically-jealous, rather because He knows how we are made: we are made to love Him and bask in His love for us. When we are close to God, we can handle *anything* that happens or doesn’t happen. When we realize that we are beloved and desired by the Creator of the Universe, temporal wealth pales in the comparison.
I’ve often said that we live on the edge of eternity, but in a real sense, our eternity has already begun: we who are His are as far from Heaven as we will ever be, but we are fast approaching it! I say this to encourage us that some bit of that life is available to us now, even on this side of death, and this life is so powerful and winsome that it enables us to overcome evil with its good. This life is Christ Himself and not in ourselves nor our surroundings. It is okay that we are “merely” branches of the vine who must be connected in order to bring forth fruit; it is the way He created us! It is our nobility to exist dependent on Him and to reflect His character!
Our time here is short, very, very short; let us encourage one another to let Him shine in and through us!
In the face of eternity, the smile of our Lord, on our lips from a heart of joy, is far, FAR more powerful than a year’s supply of food and the ammunition with which to defend it!
God Himself is our treasure, He is our Lover and we are His Beloved: absolutely nothing in this world or beyond can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus; nothing!
Don said…”Don’t think that God is not aware that Christians in America would become more mature and useable if they lived under conditions that where not so physically comfortable and secure.”
My sentiments exactly Don! I am not “afraid” of how America will change because those that survive will be stronger and more mature in the Lord…we will hopefully be “fit for the Master’s use” and hopefully, prayerfully, there might be a tiny revival in our country. Albeit tiny and probably only in a few places…the angels rejoice when one soul is saved! I have stopped thinking that there is any hope for this nation to maintain any semblance of order and organization…the liberals have guaranteed that we will not recover from this spiral into third world status…and that is God’s will, I think. This country will decline and there will be violence and organized flash mobs (aren’t these “flash mobs” just a bit unnerving?) and our “world” will drastically change into an unrecognizable collection of fuedal territories.
Sobeit. Amen.
Good comments everyone,
Ammi, you take the traditional dispensationalist view but I am not going to comment on what you said here because it would just get the post off topic.
I will just say that I do have problems with the dispensational teaching that the Gentiles are married to Christ but that our Jewish forefathers in the same olive Tree are just friends of Jesus and all the “heavenly replacement theology” that it seems to suggest.
I explain my position in chapter seven of my Revelation Commentary (top bar). You might wait until late September and re-read it because I am doing the first revision on my Revelation commentary right now and I know that I have changed some wording in that chapter – mostly replacing the words “Bride of Christ” with “Body of Christ” to make what I am saying there clearer.
The Bible is pretty clear, there will be hardships for all people on the earth before the Rapture. And “all” includes Christians. But Jesus also said that true believers would recognize the signs of the times just as the lost recognize the signs of the weather. How long will it be until the Rapture? It is a sin to even try to name the exact day/time, but I am 38 and I would be VERY surprised if I live to celebrate my 45th birthday. Revelation is crystal clear that after the Rapture there will be worldwide inflation and upheaval. You can see how the seeds of price inflation have already been sown. Most Americans don’t fully understand how debilitating a debt downgrade is going to be to the economy in general and the buying power of the dollar.
Don,
As many other people have said…AMEN! I have been telling people how completely oblivious they are simply because they think what is happening else where would not happen here. We have become way too comfortable with our everyday lives. What is happening now with so many unemployed and the homeless rate going up along with crime rates is nothing compared to what we will soon be living through. We dont have just one or two things that could possibly happen. Its not just a possible downgrade for debt rating or the possiblity of a terrorist attack. There are probably close to 100 things that could bring the U.S. to its knees and then people will truly know what suffering is. I am very thankful for the creature comforts I have, like airconditioner is 115 deg heat here in Florida, but I know that it can be taken away at any time. The Army taught me to adapt and overcome and God has told me to just have faith..blind faith.
Again..AMEN Don!!!
Frank,
I think Revelation is clear that there will be shortages, high costs and upheaval but it is the upheaval from the events in Revelation that brings the shortages and high costs.
I do not think that you can just assume that Revelation will be fulfilled shortly just because there are seeds of inflation in certain parts of the world. What you are doing is exactly what I talk about in the post. You are making end time events revolve around what is happening in America. The Rapture of the Church is not dependent on what is happening in America or Europe.
Also, the signs Jesus was talking about were not signs for the always imminent Rapture, they are signs for Israel.
Thanks Shawn, and I agree except for that last blind faith insert. Faith is not blind.
Brett, Your posts seem to be right on target, very encouraging. I spend so much time worrying about how I’m going to make it in the year ahead but, I need to keep my mind focused on Christ and his provisions will get me through.
Ammi, Like you I have often thought that the restrainer is the HS working through Christ’s body the church. If the church is raptured and the restrainer the HS is removed from the scene how are people then saved in the tribulaton period? Aren’t people saved now through God’s grace given through the HS? Don’t the tribulation saints have the HS? So how could the HS be the restrainer that is taken away?
Actually Don, the seeds of inflation are everywhere, even in successful China. They currently are inflating a HUGE real estate bubble. Many have argued that China is currently the equivalent to 2003-2004 America as far as their real estate bubble is concerned.
My analysis is formed from Biblical and financial sites/stories as well. Every major paper currency (Yen, Euro, Dollar, Yuan, etc) is currently inflated to proportions not seen in the history of the world. It is essentially a race to the bottom. With gold nearing $1700/ounce and “King Dollar” declining, it’s just a matter of time. We will definitely see the dollar lose it’s reserve currency status this decade. Make no mistake, when that happens, it will effect every human being on the face of the planet in some form or the other.
And that will set the stage for the Anti-Christ to step in with his wicked ‘solutions’.
In regard to this topic/latest comments…
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/03/china-attacks-us-legislators-on-bringing-worlds-economy-to-brink/?test=latestnews
China Criticizes Washington for Debt Deal, But Continues to Invest in U.S.
Frank,
I am aware of the situation in China they have overbuilt and there will be a downturn within a few years. The economic situation in the world certainly looks a lot like the days of the great depression but that did not bring the Antichrist. Economic crashes happen every so often like clockwork.
Sure, I also think that conditions developing today all over the world will bring in the Antichrist at some point but the world crash might not come as soon as we think, or the Antichrist might only rise after a crash then followed by a long third world war so we can’t time this thing other than to say that it looks like it will all happen within a couple of decades.
The real nation to watch is Israel. Somehow they have to be living in peace before we even get to the end days. That is where the third world war probably plays a role. Then look for ten zones in the revived Roman Empire and ten leaders. All this will take time.
My point anyway, was that world inflation is not a sign of the end times. The end times will bring inflation because there will be shortages caused by the Revelation wars. This kind of Rapture prognostication really puts the cart before the horse in my opinion.
No doubt there will be shortages. But shortages can be caused by wars in conjunction with inflation. Either way, you or I do not know ‘exactly’ how things will develop. But it doesn’t take much looking around to see that prices are heading higher every month for just necessities. And these current price increases are due to money printing and not shortages, even though governments blame food inflation on the weather, shortages, etc.
Don,
This comment you made, above, jumped off the page at me:
“After uniting with Catholics and a New Age Mormon the latest move of too many Evangelicals is to hitch there wagon to hand picked politicians and Dominion Theology heretics. When the American Family Association (AFA) joins with New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) Dominion Theology heretics to promote a globalist politician’s call to prayer we see serious discernment issues.”
Many are saying “isn’t this wonderful?” Even the local conservative radio station is giving Perry and the Dobson’s free air time to push this agenda.
My question is: What do you say when seemingly grounded fellow church brothers ask you to pray for this event in agreement with them?
when seemingly grounded fellow church brothers ask you to pray for the type of agreement that you are mentioning: you do not have to agree with them. As a believer, Jesus Christ is in your heart and he would not want you to agree to pray for this. –this comment is directed to “bob from texas”
Don, thank you for your comments. God gave all of us a special personality. There are people who will listen to a nice lady. Others will listen to you and who you are. If the “whomevers” tighten up the situation in this country it will become difficult to share the gospel. Somehow, we will always be able to verbally tell people about God and his word. When Corrie Ten Boom was imprisoned by the Nazis she would give words of encouragement and she would tell scripture verses to other Christians as they were walked away to another prison or maybe to their deaths. She also would give encouragement to non-believers. She was a tough lady and her personality was used by God to win many people to Christ. How are you letting God use you? Scholarly individuals can reach people too. 🙂
Bob,
You say no, because the prayer event is not Holy Spirit led. Remind people of Perry’s past and informed them about the beliefs of the NAR cult that is co-leading this agenda.
If that does not hit home what will work in Texas is telling the Baptists there that Rick Perry gives far less then 1 percent of his income to Christian charity.
Tim, I’m not convinced that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit, that just seems to be the most popular interpretation. I don’t have a better one, though. The Holy Spirit was very active before Pentecost (without permanently indwelling the righteous) and He will be just as active after the rapture. He convicts people of sin and draws them to faith. I think we can have the same problem regarding the work of the Spirit as we do about interpreting end times through the eyes of the American church. People in all dispensations are saved by faith not works but it is the church who are permanently indwelt. I suppose there are varying thoughts on the subject but we are off topic.
Brett, I was missing your posts, thank you for your spot-on Christ-centered focus. Maranatha
Ammi ,
Except for The Holy Spirit , whom else would be powerful enough to be the restraining force ?
Don,
I guess I’m being a bandwagon jumper, myself, when I gleam at the news world events…and think they’re necessarily relevant to the end times prophecies.
I think your obviously right, it really does come down to Israel, plain and simply. I know you’ve repeated in many of your articles that “it’s not about America (or anybody else), it’s about Israel”…as far as gauging end times prophetically.
The passage probably just means the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit within the Church will be removed from the earth not that the Holy Spirit can be removed from anywhere. It is off topic so let’s end it.
To Don and 1rosebud: Thanks for the support. I never expected something like this to “play out” the way it has. Trying to be discerning is taken as being divisive.
Also, daring to question AFA and the Dobson organization does not bring warm hugs.
Don, as Leader Of The Banned, keep your torch high and your light shining on error.
Don,
When do you think the verse about old men dreaming dreams and young men seeing visions comes to pass? Is this only for Jews during the trib or is it Christians in general as we approach the last few decades? I say this cause I’ve listened to some sincere bible preachers and believers claim they had these experiences but I tend not to believe it. I doubt God would give just them a “vision” and nobody else. Which brings up the question of how can you tell if God is speaking to you or if it’s your own thoughts feelings? I’ve been having alot of trouble with this.
Jim,
This is off the post topic so I will just say this.
The whole book of Joel is about natural Israel in the period of the signs leading up to the Day of the Lord and what occurs in the Day of the Lord. It is not about the spiritual Church.
So why did Peter quote Joel in Acts? Because what was experienced was experienced only by disciplines of Jesus that were believing Jews and everyone that Peter announced this to were Jews. Had the nation of Israel as a whole received the New Covenant promise to the Jews at that time all written in Joel would have have been totally fulfilled in that generation. Nevertheless, Israel was blinded in part so that the Gentiles could come in.
So no, I do not think a fulfillment of Joel is taking place today but that also does not bind God He can give someone a vision if He wants. The problem is that I have been around for a long time and even have been involved in some Charismatic churches and I have not found those claiming special Revelation and visions from God to be reliable.
This is copied off a statement just in from Joel Rosenberg – regarding “The Response.”
_____________________________________________________________
Today, I’m (Rosenberg) flying to Houston to participate in tomorrow’s day of prayer & fasting for our country. The event was called by Texas Governor Rick Perry. It’s based on the Book of Joel. And despite enormous opposition from liberal groups and atheist organizations….
_____________________________________________________________
What I find very interesting is the 2nd biggest church in the country (1st after Oprah) has not announced support. What am I missing?
Don, there is still time to be there to lock arms for the “Kumbayah Dance.”
I had read before that Joel Rosenberg would be there. I was really surprised. I thought he had more discernment than to be sucked into this Joel’s Army promotion coming from Dominion Theology believing New Apostolic Reformation leaders.
How Joel or anyone can read the book of Joel and apply it to America and the Church is beyond me. It seems to me that they have a selective Replacement Theology problem even if they are Christian Zionists. I am sorry to say that many fellow Christian Zionists and Bible prophecy teachers are showing very little biblical discernment in many areas.
Anyway, for those that do not know, I speak of these NAR heretics and Rick Perry in previous posts.
I just read the Book of Joel to refresh my memory. The entire prophecy is about Israel just as
Don has plainly stated. It has nothing to do with the church or America. Joel is about Israel
and the Day of The Lord. The signs mentioned make it impossible for it to mean anything else.
I’m all for people praying , but the prayers need to be in line with The Word which is forever
settled in heaven.
This post (your OP) is almost word for word what I’ve been telling folks over the last couple years! I’ve even offered the illustration of the Black Death and no rapture. Things could get bad here and we could be totally third world by the time the rapture comes; unfortunately, people say, “Things will eventually get better, they always do.”
No they will not! Things are getting worse and worse and things will get worse and worse until the the Great Tribulation and all the rest of the end times events. Christians need to get about their main work of bringing glory to God’s Name, sharing our faith and then acting a little like Noah on the side…that is storing up some food for the lean years (like the ant in Proverbs.) Unfortunately, most people won’t accept these ideas.
Josh,
Yeah, my pastor awhile back said the hard times will not last, implying that there will be a recovery just like always. He is a history buff so he should know better. Sure there eventually will be some kind of recovery if America even survives or we do not go into the day of the Lord. American Christians are so blind to what is really going on in this country and the world. In fact most are part of the problem. They are going to be shocked and that for Christians is not all bad.
A recovery ?
Hard Times ?
Man is not going to suddenly improve morally and ethically.
There might be some facade that might look like things are getting better, but really, man has destroyed all hope for sustaining any semblance of decency on this earth.
The only way hard times will be cured and the only way for a recovery for the world is when Jesus takes his church…then his throne.
Come Lord Jesus !
Really, I never understood why so many put their trust in the modern church. I understand the book of Revelations to say in the last days the False Prophet of Revelations is on the earth. This means the church is deceived and can not be trusted with salvation. A remnant is all that is left that is not deceived. My question would be are those faithful in the church or have they escaped the false prophet and are now hidden and teaching the gospel to those whom would listen?
Jistsid
The Church will not be on earth during the time of the False Prophet of Revelation. We are not in that time yet, this is talking about the future. The Church is still teaching the gospel on earth today and will be until the Rapture. There is a distinction between the true spiritual church and the visible institutional churches on earth. The visible churches will usually contain some of the spiritual Church but not all in the visible churches are true believers.
Those saved during the tribulation mostly come to believe as a result of the teaching of the two witnesses, the teaching the gospel of the kingdom by the 144,000 or believing the everlasting gospel given by an angel.