This is a very well written article on why pastors should not be promoting 12 step programs like AA. I wrote my own article on this subject a while back that says much the same things. You will find it in the New Evangelicals and post-modern psychobabble section of a much larger article I wrote on Dominion theology and where it will lead the church. There are a couple of good reference links on my piece. One is on the founders of AA, Bill Wilson, who was a real nut case. Also read the below article it gives additional insights.
A perfect example of a graduate of a 12 step program is President George Bush. He solved his alcoholism but now embraces Universalism where many religious that deny Christ lead to God.
Alcoholics Anonymous: Pluralistically Praying unto the Higher Power – CWN
T.A. McMahon sums it up very well: “AA’s official biography indicates Bill Wilson received the details of the 12 Steps through spirit dictation. Does anyone see a simple, idolatrous problem here? But what about evangelicals just using the methodology the familiar spirit gave to Bill Wilson? Simple again: God condemns the source, and the approach is contrary to the way He wants to transform our lives. Furthermore, why turn to such a spiritually toxic system? Where are the evangelical pastors’ heads in this?”[10]
Pluralism is here. Worshiping with non-believers is here. It has gone far beyond the National Day of Prayer. It is a daily occurrence at 12 Step meetings throughout the entire country.
Readers of the foregoing critique should be aware that the writer of it is badly misinformed as to the composition and development of A.A. In their youth, both founders were Christians. The early A.A. Christian fellowship required belief in God, acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, stressed Bible study and prayer meetings, and sought God’s guidance. The documented success rate was 75% in Akron and soon 93% in Cleveland. Things changed dramatically four years after founding when the Big Book was written. Its ideas came from 16 different identifiable sources. There are tens of thousands of Christians in A.A. today; they are not interested in secularism or universalism; and they pursue their faith as they were. There is no “monolithic” A.A. today, as the writer seems to believe. I suggest my title The Good Book and The Big Book: A.A.’s Roots in the Bible
We are talking about the A.A. that is based on Bill Wilson’s teaching and that what A.A. is based on today? Are you suggesting that Bill Wilson got his ideas from the Bible instead of the occult?
Wilson’s solution to his addiction from alcohol was inspired from Carl Jung’s idea that sometimes only a spiritual experience will break an addiction. The 12 steps of Bill Wilson’s 12-step program mostly originated from doctrine in the Oxford group movement religious cult. Both Carl Jung and Bill Wilson claim in their own writings that they heard the voices of spirits that gave them some of what they wrote. Bill Wilson wrote a letter to Carl Jung and at the end of the letter, he refers to psychic phenomena among AA members and he gives praise for “I Ching” (an ancient Chinese philosophy and system of divination).
Don,
This is what I was trying to tell you. The Christian foundations of AA are there, and it wasn’t until later that the message was changed from faith in Jesus Christ to “God of Our understanding”. We had this discussion before in the “shack” and AA article. I have a copy of the original manuscript for the Big Book, and originally it included accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior.
It was later changed, I believe at the direction of another founder, who felt the wording was too exclusive. Today’s AA is a watered down interpretation of the gospel so as not to offend anyone. It can be argued that the founder’s faith in this program was not strong enough to believe that the program could have been left as it was, and may have seen even better results than the world-wide phenomenon it has become.
Like the last post, I agree, many Christians are in the rooms, and well aware of the Christian, and biblical, foundation of the program, perhaps that’s why many would defend it. However, I have come to realize that the “all inclusive” watered down gospel in AA today is just as dangerous a church that fails to talk about sin, or teach the need of salvation.
As I said before, for me, the AA program helped my personal conversion, but if I am honest, it could just as easily have hindered it by providing me with a faith in a God that no longer has foundation in the Word. And I would have lived a happier, saner, and sober life and woke up some day in hell…
So I guess the moral of the story is their can be Christians in AA, but AA is no longer a Christian program despite its roots. And, more importantly, many can and are being misled without the Truth of the gospel. As for myself, I still attend meetings, and whenever possible, lead people to the original Manuscript.
correction:
It can be argued that the founders faith in the gospel was not strong enough…
I suggest that everyone read the article that I quoted and the articles that I provided a link to in my last comment. If you do any true Christian will understand that this 12 step program is not based on Christian doctrine.
T.A. McMahon sums it up in this article very well:
“AA’s official biography indicates Bill Wilson received the details of the 12 Steps through spirit dictation. Does anyone see a simple, idolatrous problem here? But what about evangelicals just using the methodology the familiar spirit gave to Bill Wilson? Simple again: God condemns the source, and the approach is contrary to the way He wants to transform our lives. Furthermore, why turn to such a spiritually toxic system? Where are the evangelical pastors’ heads in this?”
Actually there might be some merit into learning the history of the A.A for those wanting to know history. But that does not change the fact that today A.A. is a pluralist Universalist organization that leads no one to Christ. The higher power of the A.A. is not Jesus Christ for most people in A.A and the program in no way leads anyone to repentance of Sin and the acceptance of Jesus Christ as their Savior. Without a spiritual birth from above all A.A. has is sometimes sober sinners.
At least the author defines “which” “A.A.” he is criticizing. That is progress. The early A.A. Christian Fellowship came primarily from the ideas of United Christian Endeavor Society founded in Williston, Maine, and in which A.A. Co-founder Dr. Bob was active. The author does not seem to know that. See Dr. Bob of Alcoholics Anonymous: His Excellent Training in the Good Book as a Youngster in Vermont. The author also does not seem to know that conversion and salvation were the first thing Dr. Bob learned in St. Johnsbury, Vermont. as to Bill Wilson, his first exposure to conversion and salvation came from his grandfather Willie Wilson’s conversion on Mount Aelous where he cried out for help from God, rushed down to the local East Dorset Congregational Church, and announced his salvation. He never drank again. Then Bill Wilson himself attended the church with his family, went on the Burr and Burton Academy in Manchester where he regularly attended Manchester Congregational Church each week, daily chapel each day, took a four-year Bible study course, and was president of the school YMCA. Until commentators learn the history of A.A., its Christian roots, its early Christian Fellowship, and what was done between 1935 and 1939 when Wilson wrote the Big Book, they really lack the factual foundation for understanding how and why Christians in A.A. today can stand tall on the faith of Jesus Christ and ignore the vagaries of atheists, secularists, and those of other faiths who also are trying to help drunks get sober. Check out God and Alcoholism: Our Growing Opportunity in the 21st Century.
I think the religious make-up of local A.A. membership often depends on the religious make-up of the neighborhood that it is located in. But the national A.A. organization does set rules and policy for all chapters that is not Christian.
Actually it is you that led the men to Christ not A.A. You just used A.A. as a place to bring those who needed to get off alcohol dependency and then it was you that brought them to Bible fellowships where they found Christ. That is fabulous, but any A.A. group that follows the national A.A. guidance will not by itself lead people to Christ.
The point of this article is not that A.A. does not help people get off of alcohol, it does. The point is that the A.A. program also promotes pluralism and Universalism. So for Christians a Christian alternative group therapy program is much more appropriate.
By the way, the article I quoted in the main post was written by John Lanagan he was a alcoholic and a member of A.A. but he did not find Christ through A.A.
Also nobody said that a person going to A.A. cannot be a practicing Christian or that Christians in A.A cannot be helping others.
Thanks for your comments.
This will be my last comment on this series because “Don” seems firmly embedded in the idea that there is some monolithic A.A.. Who belongs to A.A., what he or she does, what he or she believes about Jesus Christ, God, and the Bible TODAY is up to the individual. I personally have sponsored over 100 men in A.A., led them to Christ, brought them into Bible fellowships, attended Bible study conferences and teachings with them, and devoted 23 years of research to establishing beyond any question what the early AAs did and why any A.A. today can be a practicing Christian who walks by the spirit, loves God and his nieghbors, and helps those who want to be helped to overcome their drinking and using problems. Those who trade on an anti-A.A. bias and purported analysis of what A.A. is just don’t know what A.A. is. And judging from the writings of a few of these folks, they won’t listen to the facts or stop lambasting a society which has no police, no censorship, no creed, no cult, no denomination, and no “pluralism” or “universalism” or “secularism” regimen. If the writer thinks otherwise, let him produce facts instead of opinions. I have published 33 titles which tell the details and document them. God Bless this assertive critic. It’s always good to point to the nonsense higher powers, phony spirituality, and non-Christian aspects floating around the recovery arena today. I suspect you can find the same basis for criticizing the Congress, the Rotary Club, the YMCA, and the tree-huggers. What some person did in 1935 on his own and what someone says in 2009 on his own has nothing to do with being an American, a Rotarian, a Boy Scout, or a whale watcher. But in A.A. it is what the Christian can do for the alcoholic who still suffers and wants God and Christ and the truth of the Bible that matters. Aloha. Dick
Authors such as Dick B. do a real disservice by continuing to claim A.A. and the 12 Steps are Christian in origin. There were many spiritual influences that went into A.A.
The A.A. cofounders loved a book by heretic Emmet Fox that denies the Salvation of Christ.
They in fact used this book as a teaching text before the A.A. Big Book was written! Dr. Bob was a Freemason.
The enemy does nothing half-heartedly. Many have a strong allegiance to the 12 Step religion and will do whatever they can to rationalize why this is compatible with Biblical teaching. It is not.
Don, I would like to follow up my previous comments if I may…
First of all, as stated before, I have been led to believe that the 12 step programs have biblical origins, and have a copy of the original manuscript (with supporting bible verses) from AA where new members are to first put their faith and trust in Christ. So far, so good, or so I thought:
It seems that the foundation for the 12 steps is actually a Buddhist concept check out this link: http://www.apocryphile.org/jrm/articles/12step.html
I may not always like what I read here but for a Christian who still considers myself young in my faith, I continuously pray for God to reveal His truth to me. I was recently at a “Christian” 12 step program, where I thought might better serve my spiritual growth and development, and was appalled by many things I heard (even more so than in the AA/AlAnon rooms). I was further shocked to learn that the group was co-founded by Pastor Rick Warren. Because of Don’s commentaries, I was wary, but kept an open mind.
One of the first things that appalled me was the predominate expectation that becoming more like Christ will lead to peace and happiness. All I could think was yeah, what about 10 of Christ’s disciples? Did Paul work the 12 steps in order to accept his imprisonment? Would he have ever written all those letters if he had not been there? What about the soldier whom he led to Christ? I admit that I am not as disciplined in my bible study as I’d like to be. However, I have at least figured out that accepting God’s will in my life does not guarantee I will be completely or even partially satisfied in this life, no matter how much I “work the steps”. Perhaps Gods will for my life is that I “lose it” completely and end up ministering from inside a mental hospital.
I believe that the Holy Spirit has worked in my heart, and allowed my eyes and ears to see the truth more clearly. Becoming more like Christ truly is sanctification, and not sanitization. Though there are bible verses that support the twelve steps, there is no biblical foundation for them. Anyone can twist scripture to fit their own needs and agenda. Would you put it above the enemy to twist God’s Word to his own devious plans and allow people to think they are serving God and others when actually they are serving their own flesh?
Besides, when I was dead in my sin, I found the bible unintelligible. I now know that scripture is only revealed to the saved through the work of the Holy Sprit. Oh, how much I praised the day my blinders were taken off, and I could actually understand the Bible!
So for all those who think they are working a “Christian” recovery through the twelve steps, take heed. Learning to clean up your act does not actually lead to closer relationship with God or Christ, and could potentially result in gaining a good life and losing your soul.
And that is the point I believe the article and commentaries are trying to make.
italics should have been for the words (support) and (foundations)
guess it didnt work.
Very well said Betty.
All too often versus of the Bible are ripped out of context to support concepts that are not at all biblical.
Betty,
You have really encouraged me. So many factors went into the 12 Steps, not the least of which was the demonic communications (spiritualism) of AA cofounder Bill Wilson. The 12 Steps are a decoy. They will link with contemplative spirituality, emergent theology, and a whole bunch of other things before this is over.
Holy is our God.
John,
I am glad that the Holy Spirit has allowed my words to reach you. In all honesty, it was difficult for me to admit that I had been misled. I should add that I still attend meetings. I had considered walking, but feel called to reach out to others who feel they are “getting closer” to God, and perhaps even “godliness” through 12 step work. Truth be known, I face the same issues in my church, where psychology and emergent theology seem to be increasingly intertwined with the “message”. The day may soon come where we are reaching the lost more inside the church than outside it. My prayer for today is that I am able to stand strong in God’s Word, and be armed and protected against false teachings. (a prayer that may have never arised if I had not heeded this warning: Thanks again, Don)
1. Dr. Bob and Bill W. were both Christians in their youth. They both attended a Congregational Sunday School. They both attended a Congregational Church. They both studied the Bible (if fact Bill took a 4 year Bible course at Burr and Burton Academy). They both attended daily chapel at their respective academies. And Bill continued attending a Congregational Church at Manchester Vermont where he was a student. Bill was president of the YMCA. Bob’s father was a president of the YMCA. Bill strongly believed in conversion to Christ and did so at the altar at Calvary Mission and wrote later than he had, for sure, been born again. Bob was tremendousely active in United Christian Endeavor Society which required confession of Christ, held conversion meetings, Bible study meetings, prayer meetings, and observed the Quiet Hour that Christians of the day were observing and calling Quiet Hour or Morning Watch or Quiet Time. What a pity that some of the writers in this column just ignore the facts and engage in ad hominem attacks. Anyhoo, here’s one of a long series of fragments that can be found all over the web and will enlighten Christians in the recovery arena on just where A.A. originated.
Alcoholics Anonymous and
Bill Wilson’s Bible Witnessing
Fragment Number Eight
By Dick B.
© 2009 Dick B. All rights reserved
The Bill Wilson that many do not know became an “evangelist” almost immediately after he was discharged from Towns Hospital, having had a spiritual experience. For example, Lois Wilson’s biographer wrote:
The doctor [Dr. Silkworth] always allowed Bill to share his God-experience with some patients, hoping somehow it might help. . . . Dr. Shoemaker [the Episcopal rector at Calvary Church] encouraged Bill to spread the message of change and spiritual recovery to others like himself. Bill took the preacher at his word. With Lois’s full support, he was soon walking through the gutters of the Bowery, into the nut ward at Bellevue Hospital, down the slimy corridors of fleabag hotels, and into the detox unit at Towns with a Bible under his arm. He was promising sobriety to every drunk he could corner, if they, like he, would only turn their lives over to God. [See William G. Borchert, The Lois Wilson Story: When Love Is Not Enough: A Biography of the Cofounder of Al-Anon (Center City, MN: Hazelden, 2005), 170.]
In fact, Rev. Sam Shoemaker wrote to Bill on January 22, 1935, commending Bill for his witnessing to Frederick E. Breithut who became known as the “chemistry professor.” Shoemaker wrote:
I hope you realize the guided-ness of your having known Jim Williams previously, as I understood you did, in business. His wife, Margaret, is fulltime in the Group and he has held out for a long while. You may be just the person that cracks the shell and brings him over. He drinks a lot and is desperately unhappy and inferior and needs what you have got for him. I am grateful for what you did for Breithut. [See Dick B., New Light on Alcoholism: God, Sam Shoemaker, and A.A., new rev. ed. (Kihei, HI: Paradise Research Publications, Inc., 1999), 531.]
And in a 1935 issue of Shoemaker’s parish newsletter, The Calvary Evangel, there was the announcement “that Frederick E. Breithut was confirmed on March 24, 1935, as a member of Calvary Episcopal Church, having previously been sponsored at a baptism on March 14, 1935, by William G. Wilson as his godfather, with Reverend Samuel Shoemaker performing the baptism.” [See Dick B., New Light on Alcoholism, 558]
The October 1929 issue of The Calvary Evangel contains a photograph of Sam Shoemaker and his staff in full vestment preceded by a member of the church who is carrying a cross. The photograph caption states, “On our way to rejoicing to Madison Square.” One church member in the 1928 photo was carrying a sign which stated, “Jesus Christ changes lives.” Other sign urged onlookers to “Come with us to Calvary Church.” L. Parks Shipley, Sr., a long-time Oxford Group activist, specifically recalled to me marching to such events in the 1930’s where the march would be followed by public witnessing at a park from a “soapbox.” Shipley said he believed Bill Wilson was among the “rejoicers” at one or more of these events during Wilson’s involvement with the Oxford Group. [See Dick B., New Light on Alcoholism, 556.]
Bill Wilson’s enthusiastic witnessing with the Bible and to the power of Jesus Christ bears a distinct relationship to what Dr. William D. Silkworth told Bill Wilson during his third visit as a patient to Towns Hospital prior to Bill’s getting sober. Dr. Silkworth’s biographer states that Bill had a discussion with Dr. Silkworth on the subject of the “Great Physician.” And then Bill reached the conclusion, “Yes, if there was any Great Physician that could cure the alcohol sickness, I’d better find him now, at once.” [See Dale Mitchel, Silkworth: The Little Doctor Who Loved Drunks: The…
Anyone want to tackle this flowery report by Dick B.?
Some authors with a vested interest just spin the facts and will not address the information about Bill Wilson for which links are provided on this post.
Bill Wilson was a double minded man and it is documented that he practiced the occult. Many have confessed Christianity but deny it through their deeds, beliefs and associations. Today we even have a President like that.
The facts of the matter and the topic of this post is that the 12 step program in most groups today encourages Universalism not Christianity.
I have asked this before, and I ask it again: Aren’t you afraid, Dick B.? How are you going to explain what you have done to the Lord?
The origin of A.A. is important, but far more important is what the Bible says about a religion like A.A., where anything and everything can be considered as “god.”
Before I continue, I want to say that Betty, I praise our Holy God. I believe Biblically A.A. is forbidden–except to those who have been called there as a missionary. Perhaps, my friend, this is where He is taking you.
Now, Dick B., back to you. You have a big conference coming up in California. You are all going to sit around and pretend A.A. is great and Biblically acceptable. May He have mercy on you. I am praying that I may end up at your shindig myself.
Paul was very clear about another gospel. Christians in A.A. are participating in spiritual “good news” that denies the sovereignty of Christ. (Galatians 1: 6-9)
“Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?” (2 Corinthians 6:14-15)
Quit the revisionism, and repent.
Refreshing that John L. has stopped personalizing his attacks and gone back to his erroneous contentions that Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. somehow controls and sets the ideas of individual A.A. members and individual A.A. groups. This abysmal ignorance of how the fellowship of two million people really operates is not worthy of dissemination. When someone rests his attacks on A.A. on the idea that all AAs are alike, that all in A.A. are somehow in need of repentence, and that this society (which today includes Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Roman Catholics, atheists, humanists, Protestants, and others who suffer) somehow embraces all these ideas and yet marches to the tune of a select few in New York is a sad commentary on such person’s research, understanding, and bias. Yes, there is going to be A New Way Out History Conference with Dick B. at Mariners Community Center in Irvine, California on May 15 and 16. It is open to all–even to the John L.’s of this world. Its speakers are coming from Canada, Maine, Washington, Texas, Florida, Missouri, Tennessee, New York, California, and elsewhere. Those attending will hear accurate, comprehensive history of the recovery movement. They will hear about the youth of Dr. Bob and Bill. They will hear about the United Endeavor Society roots of the Akron program. They will hear about the requirements that early AAs believe in Yahweh, the Creator, and come to Him through His son Jesus Christ (Hebrews 11:6, Romans 10:9). They will hear about the details early AAs studied in the Book of James, Matthew 5-7, and 1 Corinthians 13. And they will be explaining how they, as Christians, are working to help those who still suffer–in prisons, homeless shelters, rehabs, treatment, therapy, 12 Step fellowships, churches, and Christ-centered recovery groups. They will be explaining the obstacles they encounter from people like John L. and from New Age proponents, atheists, and well-intentioned but misinformed Christians. And they’ll be telling how they are endeavoring to bring to the afflicted God’s will that all men be saved and come unto a knowledge of the truth. Nary a word will be said about the nonsense gods, about spirituality, about spiritualism, or about any of the other shibboleths the anti-recovery crowd are cramming down the throats of those who desperately need the power of God, fellowship with Him and Jesus Christ and others believers, and found A.A. itself an area of great need and challenge today. Flowery? No, factual! Aloha and God Bless, Dick B.
A comment or two about the few who represent that they are Christians dedicated to the criticizing of A.A.’s leaders, fellowship, and individual members. One might ask why one should bother with such vitriolic and personalized material when there are literally tens of millions who desperately need to know about the love and power of the Creator and the vital importance of Jesus Christ in the picture. I suppose there are several brief but important comments: (1) Recognize the spiritual battle. Ephesians 6. (2) Recognize the importance of resisting the Adversary. James 4:7. (3) Recognize that a lie gets half way around the world before truth even gets its shirt on. (4) Do a service for the occasional Christian in recovery who reads the diatribes, emails or phones me to ask if I know about them, and requests to be set straight. (5) I neither have the time nor the energy to put out fires lit by the Accuser who sometimes appears as a supposed angel of light. Yet the inquirers need to know that there are six websites, 34 published titles, and hundreds of articles and audio talks that can provide them with a complete picture of the early A.A. Christian roots, Christian program, and successes by the power of God. (6) I hope this note will serve as a referral to a good source of information: http://dickb.com.
You like to talk about the early AA but that is pretty much comparable to talking about the early YMCA. There is nothing about it that is still Christian today. Obviously when this country was dominated by Christian believers the high power in most AA meetings was said to be Jesus or at least it was assumed to be. That is usually no longer true today.
Even among confessing Christians many if not most in this nation do not know the scriptures as they ought and they have been led to think that other high powers also can lead people to God and deliver them. Some of the blame for that has to be laid at feet of higher power pushers like AA.
In addition, people who go to those meeting that do not know Jesus are not taught to be delivered from the root core of their problem which is being dead in their sins and the need of God’s Savior. In fact, so called “Christians” are not even taught this. Thus, they try to be delivered from sin through a 12 step man made ritual.
What you have in most AA meetings today is a path of deception that leads people to accept pluralistic religious universalism. It is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Those who use the expression “higher power” demonstrate their ignorance of early A.A. And they somehow assume that the tens of thousands of Christians in A.A. today are stupid enough to worship false gods. Psalm 115 provides a good answer to those who talk about a higher power as a door knob, a light bulb, or Santa Claus. If anyone thinks the Adversary has somehow retired, they merely need to go to our nation’s capitol where folks are busy eliminating God. Or they can go to our state capitols where folks are busy endorsing ideas contrary to Scripture. Or they can go to churches where folks are busy talking about God or Jesus as an higher power. I like to say in TODAY’S recovery scene what Dr. Bob’s story in the Big Book has said in every edition: “Your Heavenly Father will never let you down.” He hasn’t let me down. He doesn’t let those down who believe in Him and diligently seek Him. He certainly has made eternal life and the abundant life available to those who choose to come to Him through His son Jesus Christ. And when the Dons or the Johns or the anti-A.A. folk talk as if there are a bunch of robots in A.A. who believe in idols, who engage in sceances, who think the Twelve Steps are more important than God., Jesus Christ, or the Bible, they just don’t seem aware of the tens of thousands of Christians in A.A. who: love God with all their heart, soul, mind, and strengrth; who endeavor to love their neighbors; who read the Bible daily, pray daily, and endeavor to bring others to Christ daily. Which makes me ask the pertinent question: How many souls have the naysayers saved today. Also, how many drunks have they brought to Christ today. And how interested, if at all, are they in bringing to the fore the facts about God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible in an A.A. and in a world that is facing the same spiritual forces that Jesus and his followers have always faced. And overcome!
You seem to be stuck in some kind of time warp. We are not talking about the AA of today.
Obviously tens of thousand of “Christians” do worship false God’s when “Christian” people like George Bush that are graduates of AA confesses to be Christians but believe in Universalism.
I think you are in denial about AA and denial is part of your disease. The AA you talk about largely does not exist..
Nobody said there are not Christians in AA that lead people to Christ. There are Christians in churches that lead people to Christ as well and they also help deliver drunks.
Also to compare those who warn of the dangers in AA to all the claimed success of the national organization that has millions of members with drinking problems is really pretty infantile. Nobody has said that the 12 step program does not help certain people. I am sure Islam helps certain people as well. That does not make their higher power Christian.
Anyway that is enough from you. You obviously make money on selling the AA program.
Dick,
You obviously feel very strong about this, and I admit, I am with you in the sense that AA/AlAnon helped me tremendously. I do not know where your meetings are, but here in the Northeast, few, if any are even aware of the original intent of the program. I agree with you that AA can save lives and perhaps souls through a dedicated member who knows the Lord. As for the program itself, the Christian message has long since been watered down, and please do refer to my link on the 12 steps (personally, I found that one enlightening). As most of these commentaries, noone is personally attacking AA, or the foundation of such, but it serves as a clear reminder that the watered down message may in fact lead people to recovery, but quite possibly (and most dangerous) false conversion.
Perhaps you would not take it so personally if you realized, as Don stated, that many churches are suffering from this “spiritual light” message as well. I asume from your writings you are a saved believer, and find your work in the rooms to be for the Lord. If this is the case, God Bless you, brother. But please take heed, and pray about this before you defend your position further…you may find as I did that the Holy Spirit will open your eyes to false teachings.
I cannot add a word to Don’s last 2 paragraphs above ^ Please re-read them, and pray for understanding.
Betty
The first version of the “twelve steps.” Emanuel Swedenborg’s influence on Bill Wilson. http://mywordlikefire.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/the-first-version-of-the-12-steps/
I need to add this link because it is relevant to this Dick B fellow and it also clears up issues on his stated Christian origin of AA.
http://mywordlikefire.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/seances-spirits-and-12-steps/
Dick B. never speaks on Galatians 1:6-9 regarding Christians in A.A. Indeed, he cannot; he must therefore use other means or justifying or explaining why it is okay for Christians to be in an all-gods religion, a modern pantheon of the gods.
Galatians 1 should strike Christians as very serious–Paul calls those who bring “a gospel contrary to what you received” (Gal 1:9), “ACCURSED” (1:8 and 1:9)
So we are going to tell people it is okay to pray and take part in A.A. when Christ is just one more ‘higher power”… Are we are going to link hands and pray with Wiccans, Buddhists, Mormons, and whoever else is at the meeting? That’s okay, huh? A little warm up for the coming universalism.
2nd Corinthians 6:14-17 tells us to come out and be separate. How do pro-A.A. Christians deal with these Scriptures? Well, they don’t. They cannot.
Alcoholics Anonymous and the Lord Jesus Christ
A.A. History Fragment No. Four
Dick B.
© 2009 Dick B. All rights reserved
In 1934, just before he entered Towns Hospital for the last time as a patient, Alcoholics Anonymous Founder Bill Wilson went to the altar at Calvary Rescue Mission in New York. And, in the words of his wife Lois Wilson, “And he went up, and really, in very great sincerity, did hand over his life to Christ.” (“Lois Remembers: Searcy, Ebby, Bill & Early Days.” Recorded in Dallas, Texas, June 29 1973, Moore, OK: Sooner Cassette, Side One). In the earliest Akron A.A. days, Bill Wilson stated: “Henrietta [Dotson, wife of A.A. Number Three], the Lord has been so wonderful to me, curing me of this terrible disease that I just want to keep talking about it and telling people.” Alcoholics Anonymous, 4th ed., 191. On pages 216-217 of Alcoholics Anonymous, 3rd ed., a Cleveland A.A. newcomer asked Bill Wilson what it was “that worked so many wonders” and said, “hanging over the mantel was a picture of Gethsemane and Bill pointed to it and said, ‘There it is’.” The picture was a painting of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane (Matthew 26:36-39). In the pioneer A.A. Akron Fellowship, every member was required to accept Jesus Christ as his personal lord and saviour. This has been personally verified to me by the wife and writings of Clarence H. Snyder; the recorded remarks of oldtimer J. D. Holmes, and my telephone conversations with oldtimers Ed Andy and Larry Bauer. For many of the specific details about early Alcoholics Anonymous and the Lord Jesus Christ, see Dick B., The Conversion of Bill W.: More on the Creator’s Role in Early A.A. http://dickb.com/conversion.shtml, and Dr. Bob of Alcoholics Anonymous: His Excellent Training in the Good Book as a Youngster in Vermont http://dickb.com/drbobofaa.shtml
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Heart warming and self serving statements that does not address the issues that were presented on this post. If it really happened how many times had he handed over his life to Christ at this point? None of this has anything to do with the universalism that is now practiced in most AA groups in this nation. If this is all about promoting your books you are no longer going to get posted here. Address the issues presented instead of just quoting excerpts out of your books.
Yes, thank you, Don. Dick B., you cannot address this because Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Corinthians 6:14-17 forbid us from A.A. membership. The Word of God, may it pierce you, my friend.
24 hours later, still waiting Dick B. Why can’t you address the two Scriptures, Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Corinthians 6:14-17 in terms of Christians attending AA? You can’t. You can give facts, make suggestions, etc., and you have, but you cannot refute what the Word of God tells us.
Do you know how it would bless our God, He of patience and grace and lovingkindness, if you repented and started warning people that your books portraying AA and the12 Steps as Christian in origin are wrong?
Too bad, John L. Your moderator has allowed you to engage in personal attacks and ignore historical facts. He has also tried to suppress my writings and mention of the 34 published titles that are part of the refutation. No need to engage in a personal vendetta that you have launched where a couple of Scriptures are cited while the entire Bible is ignored. Aloha. I’m sure you mean well, but ad hominem attacks on my faith are not acceptable to me. There are Christians in the Army, the Boy Scouts, secular colleges, the Rotary Clubs, Congress, churches, prisons, homeless camps, and recovery efforts. It is never wrong for a Christian to stand on his faith and tell others about reliance on God, witness for Christ, and standing on the truth of God’s Word. Be sober. Be vigiliant,. Attacks on Christians are something the Apostle Paul was told to abandon two thousand years ago. Saul the sinner reversed his Christian killing course and started serving the saviour from sin. He didn’t tell Christians to withdraw into a cave and stop fostering the message. The Book of Acts would be a good starting point for the reading of viewers. I’ll leave the writers personalized diatribe and move on to help drunks with the truth of God’s Word. Better that they read the Bible, the history of A.A., and then decide where their help can really come from.
I do not see personal attacks from John on you. He was merely asking you to answer his questions.
I also have not suppressed your writings so you lied the moderator has not tried to suppress your writings as you said. However, I assure you in the future that you are not going to keep clipping and pasting stuff from your books and present them as comments on my site. That is not acceptable diologue.
If you look at the comments on this post most of the entries are by you so you had your say. I did warn you that if you are only here to promote your books you will not be published but I have not as yet suppressed your comments. However, with your attitude do not be surprised when that happens. Read my posting policy on my sidebar.
Frankly, with all your comments you have not yet addressed the topic of this post which is the present Universalism promoted in AA It seems you just want to divert the topic to your books and views on the early AA founders. That is not the subject of this post and your views of the founders of AA can be refuted and the truth of the matter has little bearing on what is happening in AA meetings today.
Instead of being a troll who comes around on any blog that mentions AA in order to promote your books, comment on the post topic and seriously answer questions put to you or find another place.
Perhaps you don’t want to see it. Nevertheless, it was there all along. On November 26, 1939 Dilworth Lupton of the First Unitarian Church (Universalist-Unitarian) preached a sermon recommending Alcoholics Anonymous. The sermon was titled, ‘Mr. X and Alcoholics Anonymous.’
Lupton made several interesting comments. He noted that A.A. demonstrated the “principle of universality.” Lupton declared, “We are beginning to recognize the substantial unity of all religious faiths. Back of all religions is religion itself. Religion appears in differing types, but they are all expressions of one great impulse to live nobly and to adore the highest.”
According to Lupton, “This universality of religion is recognized by the Alcoholics Anonymous.” (Italics mine)
Why was this man whose religion denies Christ as Savior in such alignment with A.A.? Because Alcoholics Anonymous, like Unitarians and universalists, does not believe it particularly matters WHO (or what) one prays to, only that one worships something.
Lupton’s religion believes Salvation is universal.
At the end of his sermon, he gave this advice. “One final word to the members of Alcoholics Anonymous. Go back to your synagogues and churches; they need you and you need them. Preserve your principle of Universality, your faith that all religion is one.” (Bold and Italics mine)
Alcoholics Anonymous is full of hurting people who are doing the best they can with the heresy that they have been taught. A.A. is not of Christ, and was never of Christ. The connection with the swiss-cheese theology of the pseudo-Christian Oxford Group does not change this. Using the Bible for general spiritual principles does not change this.
They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us.; but they went out, so it would be shown that they all are not of us. (1 John 2:19)
The Oxford Group, which is so often used as proof of A.A.’s “Christian” origin, also “went out” and, like A.A., adapted an any-and-all-gods approach.
According to PASS IT ON, the official A.A. biography of A.A. cofounder Bill Wilson, “He felt AA.’s usefulness was worldwide, and contained spiritual principles that members of any and every religion could accept, including the Easten religions.” (PASS IT ON, pg. 283)
Here is the latest follow-up information from John Lanagan on this subject
http://www.worldviewtimes.com/article.php/articleid-4875/Brannon-Howse/John-Lanagan
I do not believe AA provides any sort of Salvation. It does do it’s job in helping me keep sober though.
I accept AA as this: AA is about helping other alcoholics achieve sobriety, that’s it. How I attain Salvation is left up to me and AA wants no part of it.
I don’t have any problem going to a NASCAR race, having them say a prayer and give one iota of what the person I’m standing with beliefs are about when they pray. My expectation is not about the prayer but about watching NASCAR.
Going to an AA meeting I get aid or tools to stay sober. My salvation only comes through Christ which is NOT preached at AA.
All that aside, I do believe AA has given me many great tools to be a better Christian.
Dick B’s last comment has been removed. I do not want people making their living off of promoting AA and distorting the facts commenting on my blog.
1. I’ve left AA (3/6/10) still sober by choice not AA. It is a cult regardless whom it helps. At best it is a legalistic approach to sobriety. It’s failure rate is huge; a man made program could be nothing else.
2. I would seriously question anyone’s profession as a Christian who attends AA
3. Since my writing my initial comments, I don’t believe I was a Christian
4. Aside from helping people stop drinking, I experienced nothing or no one helping we in my walk to become a Christian or a better Christian. I could have had my dog as a god.
5. I believe Bill was a false prophet so to speak. Read Jeremiah 23:16-29. I cannot comment on his salvation other than the only reference to Christ in the Big Book was he was a good man. Page 10 & 11. “To Christ I conceded the certainty of a great man, not too closely followed by those who claimed Him. His moral teaching – most excellent. For myself, I had adopted those parts which seemed convenient and not too difficult; the rest I disregarded.” These are not words of any true Christian I know. If Bill’s profession as a Christian were true, why would he not write much more about it in the book?
6. Dr. Silkworth was a complete quack.
7. To Christ be the Glory! The one true healer /forgiver of all of our sins!